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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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No converts - no stars.
- Thread starter Classik
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
Member
I dont' know about stars on a garment, but the crown we will glory in is the people we helped through the administration of our gifts.
4 Therefore, my brothers, you whom I love and long for, my joy and crown..." (Phil. 4:1 NIV1984)
19 For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you?" (1 Thess. 2:19 NIV1984)
"And I hope that, 14 ...you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus." (2 Cor. 1:13-14 NIV1984)
THat is why Paul tells us to be careful how we build the Temple of God. What reward, what glory is waiting for the person who builds the house of God up into people who will not survive the fires of judgment? You yourself may be saved but you will have no work to boast in:
"...the fire will test the quality of each man’s work (the people you have ministered to). 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." (1 Cor. 3:13-15 NIV1984 parenthesis mine)
Classik
Member
I thought everyone was supposed to be the same in heaven....this seems like just another competition
I have been thinking about it, too.
It gets me worried. At times I have the guilt: you haven't done well.
Jesusfreak97
Member
If it makes you have guilt then that CAN'T be from God. GOD DOESN'T GUILT PEOPLE. GOD DOESN'T GUILT PEOPLE! GOD DOESN'T GUILT PEOPLE! That is satan. satan is a poopy head and man I am glad I am not in his shoes because he is gonna get it from God. So lemme say it again GOD DOESN'T GUILT PEOPLE!
Navigator
Member
As evident in the Great Commission, our duty is to "make disciples of all nations," but I don't think we will be judged by how MANY we make. I suppose, to better understand your question, do you simply mean "converts" as in those who profess to love Christ and accept Him as their Savior (who may or may not be impacted by the Spirit later), OR those who are truly changed by the Spirit after their acceptance of Christ?
The reason I ask is, if we this "competition" does exist, and let's say one man is a MASTER EVANGELIST. He is so persuasive and loves Christ himself, but does brings people to Christ simply by converting them by what he says; he treats it like it's more similar to joining a club (with perks!) than having a lasting, loving relationship with God. This man makes 2,000 "converts" in his lifetime.
BUT there is another man. This man also knows and loves Christ, but rather than being outrageously outspoken about his faith, he sticks to impacting one person at a time. He loves on them, takes them out to eat, engages in Bible studies, etc. and becomes an "alongsider" in the faith until they are ready to part ways and do the same for another person. This cycle continues and by the end of his lifetime, this man reaches 40 people directly.
Who wins? One has more converts (and a fourth of those at least could eventually come to know Christ to a great extent), but the other gained his in a manner that was truly loving and Christ-like.
This is why I think this would not exist; why would there be a competition and why would the a person like the second man be looked as less than the first?
The reason I ask is, if we this "competition" does exist, and let's say one man is a MASTER EVANGELIST. He is so persuasive and loves Christ himself, but does brings people to Christ simply by converting them by what he says; he treats it like it's more similar to joining a club (with perks!) than having a lasting, loving relationship with God. This man makes 2,000 "converts" in his lifetime.
BUT there is another man. This man also knows and loves Christ, but rather than being outrageously outspoken about his faith, he sticks to impacting one person at a time. He loves on them, takes them out to eat, engages in Bible studies, etc. and becomes an "alongsider" in the faith until they are ready to part ways and do the same for another person. This cycle continues and by the end of his lifetime, this man reaches 40 people directly.
Who wins? One has more converts (and a fourth of those at least could eventually come to know Christ to a great extent), but the other gained his in a manner that was truly loving and Christ-like.
This is why I think this would not exist; why would there be a competition and why would the a person like the second man be looked as less than the first?
handy
Member
Several thoughts here....
First of all, no one will know exactly how many souls one has won for the Lord. No one.
Anyone living their life for Christ is a witness to him and no one can tell exactly how that witness will touch someone's life. By being the kind of person who loves others, shares what they have and treats people decently, one can win someone over for the Lord and not even realize it. (Conversely, when someone makes a big deal out of their Christianity, then falls or is proved to be a hypocrite, it can turn a lot of people away from the Lord.)
So, don't worry if you're not gifted with the gift of evangelism or preaching or teaching... Exercise the gifts you have and extend to others God's love, patience, kindness, gentleness and self control... and you may win far more souls than many of those TV guys who may very well find themselves in the position of saying "But, but, we cast out demons in Your name and did miracles in Your name," and hear, "Go away, I never knew you."
Secondly, little study here regarding the crowns:
These are the "crowns" that we receive.
First, there is the crown of exultation... those others that are in heaven with us... 1 Thess 2:19
Second, for all who keep the faith, there is a crown of righteousness. 2 Tim 4:7-8
Third, the crown of life for all who love the Lord. James 1:12
Fourth, Peter mentions an unfading crown of glory for those who rightly and lovingly shepherd the Flock until the Chief Shepherd comes
Fifth, there is a crown for those who hold fast and do not deny Jesus' name, even when weak. Revelation 3:11
Now, these crowns seem to be quite symbolic or, who knows, they may very well be tangible crowns... and what shall we do with them? Most likely we will be in one accord with the 24 elders in heaven, who cast their crowns before the throne of Jesus.
But no, we are not in a competition... we are called to live our life in obedience and in bearing fruit... the fruit of the Spirit which will also bear reaping in of the harvest... God will judge you according to what you have been given, not according to how others see you "winning souls". It might help to note that not even Billy Graham ever regenerated even one person. The true 'soul winner' is the Holy Spirit.... we are but examples and are sometimes called upon to act as a mid-wife, when we can share what God has done for us.
First of all, no one will know exactly how many souls one has won for the Lord. No one.
Anyone living their life for Christ is a witness to him and no one can tell exactly how that witness will touch someone's life. By being the kind of person who loves others, shares what they have and treats people decently, one can win someone over for the Lord and not even realize it. (Conversely, when someone makes a big deal out of their Christianity, then falls or is proved to be a hypocrite, it can turn a lot of people away from the Lord.)
So, don't worry if you're not gifted with the gift of evangelism or preaching or teaching... Exercise the gifts you have and extend to others God's love, patience, kindness, gentleness and self control... and you may win far more souls than many of those TV guys who may very well find themselves in the position of saying "But, but, we cast out demons in Your name and did miracles in Your name," and hear, "Go away, I never knew you."
Secondly, little study here regarding the crowns:
These are the "crowns" that we receive.
First, there is the crown of exultation... those others that are in heaven with us... 1 Thess 2:19
Second, for all who keep the faith, there is a crown of righteousness. 2 Tim 4:7-8
Third, the crown of life for all who love the Lord. James 1:12
Fourth, Peter mentions an unfading crown of glory for those who rightly and lovingly shepherd the Flock until the Chief Shepherd comes
Fifth, there is a crown for those who hold fast and do not deny Jesus' name, even when weak. Revelation 3:11
Now, these crowns seem to be quite symbolic or, who knows, they may very well be tangible crowns... and what shall we do with them? Most likely we will be in one accord with the 24 elders in heaven, who cast their crowns before the throne of Jesus.
But no, we are not in a competition... we are called to live our life in obedience and in bearing fruit... the fruit of the Spirit which will also bear reaping in of the harvest... God will judge you according to what you have been given, not according to how others see you "winning souls". It might help to note that not even Billy Graham ever regenerated even one person. The true 'soul winner' is the Holy Spirit.... we are but examples and are sometimes called upon to act as a mid-wife, when we can share what God has done for us.
Jethro Bodine
Member
The reward is relative to your own particular gift and the faith God gave you to walk in it, not someone else's gift and their faith to walk in it. What this means is you do not let someone else define how effective and productive you are to be in ministering your gift to others, nor are you going to be measured by their gifting and calling.
Paul teaches us in Romans 12:3-8 to soberly assess our own gifting and faith to walk in that gift. God can only expect as much from you as what he has called and equipped you to do, not what he has called and equipped someone else to do. That removes the competitive nature from this matter of seeking kingdom rewards for our faithfulness to help build and maintain the Temple of God according to our gifts. Hope that takes some of the guilt out of what we may or may not be doing for the kingdom in relation to what someone else is doing.
Paul teaches us in Romans 12:3-8 to soberly assess our own gifting and faith to walk in that gift. God can only expect as much from you as what he has called and equipped you to do, not what he has called and equipped someone else to do. That removes the competitive nature from this matter of seeking kingdom rewards for our faithfulness to help build and maintain the Temple of God according to our gifts. Hope that takes some of the guilt out of what we may or may not be doing for the kingdom in relation to what someone else is doing.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Jethro Bodine
Member
It's important to know that not everyone's gift is bringing people into the kingdom, as much as some churches like to believe that's true.
4 There is one body and one Spirit —just as you were called to one hope when you were called — 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 But to each one of us grace (the grace of a gifting) has been given as Christ apportioned it." (Ephesians 4:4-7 NIV1984)
You see we are all equal and alike in regard to salvation, BUT where we differ is in what gift, what grace, we have received to minister to others, and to what extent.
You will be rewarded according to what YOU have been called and equipped to do in this life to build and maintain the kingdom, and according to the measure of faith you have been given to do that.
4 There is one body and one Spirit —just as you were called to one hope when you were called — 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 But to each one of us grace (the grace of a gifting) has been given as Christ apportioned it." (Ephesians 4:4-7 NIV1984)
You see we are all equal and alike in regard to salvation, BUT where we differ is in what gift, what grace, we have received to minister to others, and to what extent.
You will be rewarded according to what YOU have been called and equipped to do in this life to build and maintain the kingdom, and according to the measure of faith you have been given to do that.
Jethro Bodine
Member
My vote is for symbolic.
And again, IMO, symbolic, meaning even though we glory in what we have done in this age for the kingdom the ultimate glory goes to God himself.
Ahem...I suppose if I'm to be the bride of Christ I can also be a midwife for the Holy Spirit. :gah
Jethro Bodine
Member
A lot of cross posting going on here, but we all seem to share the same understanding of it. We're only accountable for what God reasonably expects from us according to what he has equipped us to do. Our reward is relative to us alone, not to someone else's duty in the kingdom.
10 Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God’s grace in its various forms. 11 If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 4:10 NIV1984)
10 Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God’s grace in its various forms. 11 If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 4:10 NIV1984)
Christ_empowered
Member
So...since we're the Body of Christ...we're judged by how well we perform our assigned function? Some of us are hands, brains, eyes; others feet, maybe a small pinkie...
I feel comfortable with this view. When I was at Jesus Camp (1 year Pentecostal Rehab for deviants, mostly druggies), towards the end the counselors would ask us what we were going to do now that we'd gotten super-saved. Most of the other dudes wanted to evanglize, etc....I just wanted to be a productive member of society and live out a transformed life. I didn't know if I was being humble or lazy. This view of heavenly rewards makes me feel better about my chosen track.
I feel comfortable with this view. When I was at Jesus Camp (1 year Pentecostal Rehab for deviants, mostly druggies), towards the end the counselors would ask us what we were going to do now that we'd gotten super-saved. Most of the other dudes wanted to evanglize, etc....I just wanted to be a productive member of society and live out a transformed life. I didn't know if I was being humble or lazy. This view of heavenly rewards makes me feel better about my chosen track.
Jethro Bodine
Member
You are being very wise. You have chosen exactly what the Bible says is hoiw we become effective and productive for the kingdom of God:
"...add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:5-8 NIV1984)
The key to being useful and productive in whatever gift you've been given is to nurture the fruit of the Spirit in your personal life.
You're way more whole and on the right track than even you may realize.
I'm happy for you, and with you in your progress in Christ.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Or maybe even an upresentable part that requires special treatment, but still part of the Holy body of Christ, nonetheless. Is God good, or what?
Classik
Member
Thank you all for your replys. I have been terribly busy (I could be a little free by January:D)
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No need for competition in heaven. If there is, people like David, Moses. Elijah, Bonkee, etc will take the best shares.
Thank you all.
(This statement is a little confussing: .....you sahll be rewarded accroding to your works...)
(I could be a little free by January:D)-----
No need for competition in heaven. If there is, people like David, Moses. Elijah, Bonkee, etc will take the best shares.
Thank you all.
(This statement is a little confussing: .....you sahll be rewarded accroding to your works...)