No God, No morals

[Kimberly]

I think people like atheists could have morals and values 'somewhat' but it really depends on what kind of morals and values. They could not match up to the high standard of God's principles. Just my personal opinion :3

 

[Deavonreye]

so how does something have elvolved that we cant prove.did men randomnly discover these things

i'm stupid.humor me

given that all we have of any early men then written history has no record, so its conjecture.

proove me wrong by a hard science(not soft science aka evolutionary psychology)

that is their field biology DOES NOT deal with learned behaviors that is where skinners law comes in.

and that is psychology not biology.

I hope you don't find this too humorous, jason.

You are right [as far as I know, that is. I'm not a paleontologist/anthropologist.] in that there may not be hard evidence, but it is easily inferred by looking at other social species. There was a great link above that showed various animals that cooperate for the good of their pack.

 

[Deavonreye]

I think people like atheists could have morals and values 'somewhat' but it really depends on what kind of morals and values. They could not match up to the high standard of God's principles. Just my personal opinion :3

And your personal opinion is welcome, of course.

However, what does the "high standard of god's principles" mean to you?

 

[jasoncran]

I hope you don't find this too humorous, jason.

You are right [as far as I know, that is. I'm not a paleontologist/anthropologist.] in that there may not be hard evidence, but it is easily inferred by looking at other social species. There was a great link above that showed various animals that cooperate for the good of their pack.

that doesnt mean that language and abstract thought devoloped randomnly.

we have a brain someone has to comeup the rules, not just all of a sudden.

no genes are involved as culture is taught not inherited by genes.

somewhere we had to decide that having multiple mates was bad,(in general).

this inference is a bad a saying the model t is the common ancestor of all cars, and they elvolved from them.

why would behavior have been learned randomnly? if so then any bad behavior could be a corrective one if reeinforced enough.

where doest it stop.

in islam ritual murder is ok. you can kill your wife and be ok.what is to say that men are eliminating weak genes?

the wife not being a good mate is eliminated

unless you still think that we men are exempt from evolution.

again how does something that has no intellegence give us anything?

what you have just said is that by some sheer luck that we apes didnt die out.

that somehow, with enough food and no predators we decided to enact morals to survive.

when we had enough to live.
art, dont need that to survive
religion dont need that survive
proto-man needed only food and water and to stay from any predator if any

languages maybe.but still.

 

[Deavonreye]

jason, you pose a lot of questions, but it really does all come down to the evolution of species. Same as why wolf packs and lion prides developed a behavioral system. It was beneficial and allowed the group to grow and prosper.

A few things.

It isn't immoral to have more than one mate.

Islam, or other religious cultures of the past, founded religion, and adopted ways to use it to control masses of people. That's why women are treated unfairly in Muslim countries [some, not all]. In my opinion, many of these imposed beliefs were detrimental to the progress that was made before, but it kinda makes sense, if you think about it. Where a species [man] increased, resources became more problematic to secure, due to other groups requiring it too. Any way to gain the upper hand would be used to further a group, and motivating the people to work towards this end was common back then.

It is a difficult topic to be sure. I only post as I feel lead.

 

[jasoncran]

jason, you pose a lot of questions, but it really does all come down to the evolution of species. Same as why wolf packs and lion prides developed a behavioral system. It was beneficial and allowed the group to grow and prosper.

A few things.

It isn't immoral to have more than one mate.

Islam, or other religious cultures of the past, founded religion, and adopted ways to use it to control masses of people. That's why women are treated unfairly in Muslim countries [some, not all]. In my opinion, many of these imposed beliefs were detrimental to the progress that was made before, but it kinda makes sense, if you think about it. Where a species [man] increased, resources became more problematic to secure, due to other groups requiring it too. Any way to gain the upper hand would be used to further a group, and motivating the people to work towards this end was common back then.

It is a difficult topic to be sure. I only post as I feel lead.

really?

have ever met those women who in islam are considered second class?

when you have more then one wife at the same time. you will love on more then the other.i have seen muslims divorce their wife and marry another simply because she was too old.

25.they dont live with any of them. visit one on week, the other the next week.

so if that is what you want. marry two girls.

the human heart cant share love.

the wives do get jealous. and fight.


i cant but anything else lead two second class citizenship for the polygamist
would you take second fiddle to someone who was younger and in love with the same women as you were.

No , you wouldnt if you had any ounce of self-respect.

i had a girl play me like that and wanted to keep me. i told her, nope. i have respect for myself, as i know you will see on or the other.

wolves.lol.

yeah the species that often fight for the best mate. i have a wolf hybrid. i know what she does.not very social with humans if you dont work with them.

 

[Deavonreye]

I think I'm going to forego anymore on this line of reasoning, jason. I don't think we are communicating very well here. Thanks for the exchange anyway.

 

[Jakeness]

have ever met those women who in islam are considered second class?

Women are second class in Christianity as well. The difference between sexism in Islam and in Christianity is that it is ignored in the later, fortunately.

Sexism in the Bible

Also, my last post in reply to you was not approved. I'm not sure why as I don't remember it containing anything remotely offensive.

 

[theLords]

Women are second class in Christianity as well. The difference between sexism in Islam and in Christianity is that it is ignored in the later, fortunately.

Sexism in the Bible

Also, my last post in reply to you was not approved. I'm not sure why as I don't remember it containing anything remotely offensive.

As a Christian woman, all I have to say is PUH-LEEEEEZE.

How does an atheist man know what it's like for a Christian woman?

Galatians 3:28 (NIV)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Jakeness]

As a Christian woman, all I have to say is PUH-LEEEEEZE.

How does an atheist man know what it's like for a Christian woman?

Galatians 3:28 (NIV)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Honestly, did you read any of the verses that were in that link? I am not claiming anything. I am simply giving what the Bible says. There are many examples of sexism in the Bible, how can you argue with this?

Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

 

[theLords]

Honestly, did you read any of the verses that were in that link? I am not claiming anything. I am simply giving what the Bible says. There are many examples of sexism in the Bible, how can you argue with this?

Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Evolution means our uncles are all monkeys.

Do you see what I did in reference to evolution? That's what you're doing in reference to Scripture.

You don't know the context, background, etc. regarding those verses. The Church of Corinth had a big problem with gnosticism and the women teaching the men that "Eve was created before Adam."

I can pluck things out of evolution and use it to say just about anything I want it to say.

A Christian woman doesn't experience sexism because of the Bible. We aren't complaining about it like the Muslims are/do.

Christian women experience sexism (in general) because of (men and their own) ignorance.

The Bible clearly states there is no man or woman we are all equal within Christ the Lord. This is the foundation. To understand all the verses in your little (made to deceive) link one must view it from the perspective of "there is no man or woman all are one in Christ the Lord" and begin to interpret the Scriptures from there.

 

[Deavonreye]

Interestingly, my former church would not allow women to be pastors because of such verses. Perhaps they misunderstood the verse?

I will say this, as per the OP. I am no more nor less moral when I was a christian than I am now. I don't look for opportunities to sin. I try to be a moral person, and probably do a better job than some who claim christianity because it isn't about ideology, but it is about the heart of a person.

 

[jasoncran]

Interestingly, my former church would not allow women to be pastors because of such verses. Perhaps they misunderstood the verse?

I will say this, as per the OP. I am no more nor less moral when I was a christian than I am now. I don't look for opportunities to sin. I try to be a moral person, and probably do a better job than some who claim christianity because it isn't about ideology, but it is about the heart of a person.

theres a divide in the church as whole over that.

aog,no on that.

my church has no problem with that.

i can see the arguments to both on that.

 

[Arch Angle]

I find the above sig very offensive.

People that have no higher power than themselves to be held accountable tend to be more self serving and allow more inappropriate behaviors. This higher power can be a god, a nation, or something constructive that unites people.
I point to the trends in the USA ware TV and radio is desensitizing our population to dysfunctional families and interpersonal relationships as evidence that no god = no morals.

 

[jasoncran]

I find the above sig very offensive.

thats a first from an unbeliever/new ager.

pm me on this. i figured the athiest would get me on that one.