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No man can claim the Title of Pastor according to Eph 4:11

new covenant preacher

new covenant preacher

Member
There is only one fold and one shepherd, or one body of believers that faithfully follow the true Shepherd Jesus Christ.

John 10:11-12 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep

Seventeen times in the New Testament the word shepherd is used. This word shepherd is always used in the singular, when referring to Christ.

There is only one verse in all of the New Testament where the word shepherd, is translated to pastors (Eph 4:11). The problem with this translation is significant.

This subtle yet deceptive change, wherein the word pastors is inserted in place of shepherd, creates a deadly precedence. This sets up albeit falsely, the justification for a hierarchy, allowing certain men to have authority over others.

One fold and one shepherd- His name is Christ
Christ is the Good Shepherd, the verse below should make it clear, because there truly is only one shepherd.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

The verse that we are going to discuss here is imperative to understand; although the established Christian religion truly wishes you would not.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Below is the Strong’s breakdown of this verse for your perusal.

And <G2532> he gave <G1325> some <G3303>, apostles <G652>; and <G1161> some, prophets <G4396>; and <G1161> some, evangelists <G2099>; and <G1161> some, pastors <G4166> and <G2532> teachers <G1320>Eph 4:11

There are four words in this verse that need to be carefully analyzed.

  • The first one relating to the one fold and one shepherd is the word and (G 1161).
The word and, is used five times in Ephesians 4:11.The second, third and fourth use of the word and, are used correctly, as a continuative.

  • The second one relating to the one fold and one shepherd is the word also or indeed (G 2532). Here it is also translated as the word and, which is incorrect.
The first and fifth use of the word and, is used incorrectly. In these two instances either the word indeed, or also, should be used instead of the word and. The reason being is that the Greek word for (G2352) is a connector, and therefore the correct interpretation is also or indeed.

  • The third one relating to the one fold and one shepherd is the word some (G 3303).
The word some, is actually only used once in this verse and the other three times it is added incorrectly.

  • The fourth one relating to the one fold and one shepherd is the word pastors (G 4166).
The correct interpretation of this word is shepherd.

Below we present a more accurate translation of this verse, to better grasp the intended meaning.

Indeed, God gave some to be apostles, and prophets, and evangelists, and a Shepherd who is also our teacher. There truly is only one fold and one shepherd, and his name is Christ Jesus.

There Truly Is Only One fold and one shepherd
The other word to take notice of in Eph 4:11, is the word teacher. It is predominately translated as master, and is a title given to Christ.

Luke 18:18-19 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one,

Only twice is it used in reference to teachers in the church, and in both of these instances God sets the teachers, and not man (1 Cor 12:28-29).

Two other times are where Paul is appointed a teacher by God, unto the nations (1 Tim 2:7; 2 Tim 1:11).

Once is in reference to false teachers, and is one of the reasons this article is necessary.

2 Tim 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.



And the last time this word is used it is translated as masters, and comes with an important warning.

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters (or teachers), knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. Emphasis added.

If there was to be a hierarchy in the church apart from Christ, He would have mentioned it at least once, but He does not! The reason being, there is only one fold and one shepherd.

As well, anyone claiming to be a teacher ordained of God, would have to be Baptized by the Spirit of God. Otherwise what they taught would be guesswork at best or pure unadulterated deception by design. Actually both are at play today.

The fact is that Christ is the head of His Church (Eph 4:4-15). All men are equal, and no man has any spiritual authority over another.

The body of Christ is one, (or at least it should be) and has many members. However all the members of that body, being many, are one body (1 Cor 12:12; Rom 15:6; 1 Cor 8:5-6; Gal 3:28). Those truly of and in Christ, with one mind and one Spirit are united together in faith (Phl 1:27).

Matt 20:25-28 Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Jesus makes it pretty clear there was to be no hierarchy. We are called to minister and serve each other, not to serve ourselves, or claim authority over others.

Matt 23:6-7 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

We are not to follow after the traditions of other counterfeit religions. Christ made himself of no reputation, and became a servant to many (Phil 2:7). How dare we, lift up and exalt mere mortal men, who are but sinners.
 
Religions are drunk with spiritual idolatry.

Some of these sins of idolatry are:

  • Following false doctrines after the traditions of men.
  • Proclaiming self righteousness, and justification through the old law.
  • Seeking the praises of men, instead of the praises of God.
  • Obsessed with reputations, and achievements, this is also vanity.
  • Placing any one or any thing above God, this is pure idolatry.
  • Becoming lovers of this world, instead of lovers of Christ Jesus.
  • Idolizing religious leaders or their writings, and worldly wisdom.
  • Expecting Christ to bless us with the things of this world.
  • Storing up treasures on earth, and becoming lovers of money.
  • Teaching false doctrines, and ignoring the only true shepherd.
  • Calling men father, rabbi or pastor, which is forbidden.
Can men be referred to as Teachers? Possibly! But only if they are truly called and filled with the Holy Spirit. Can men be referred to as Shepherds or Pastors not likely!

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Indeed, God gave some to be apostles, and prophets, and evangelists, and a Shepherd who is also our teacher (Eph 4:11, emphasis added).
 
new covenant preacher said:
What no rebuttals?
Click to expand...
It is also a major part of any discussion/debate that you actually answer relevant questions concerning your original post's claims. For example in reading your first paragraph you make the following two claims:

new covenant preacher said:
There is only one fold and one shepherd, or one body of believers that faithfully follow the true Shepherd Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...

If you can understand that God's word teaches there is only one "fold" (singular) that's His fold and one "body" (one church, one household, one bride) yet this one fold consists of many individual believers (plural), then how can you not understand that it also teaches that there is one God who is three persons (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit)?
 
new covenant preacher said:
What no rebuttals?
Click to expand...
-
Trolls are tiring.
Maybe you should try another hook, NCP

The other issue you have is that the NT was mostly written through Paul, by the Holy Spirit.
According to Paul, we are to be "followers of him, as he follows Christ".
Paul is the one who went about establishing (bishops)(pastors) everywhere he went.
So, your tread attempts to revoke Paul.
Good luck with that.
You'll need it.
 
Everything I've posted is clear, concise and Biblical and the personal attacks by Christians ? are well, to be expected
When you can't refute what is said attack the messenger
 
Also...

From the Terms of Service:

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We consider Paul's writings to be part of the inspired Word of God. This is a Christian forum and any posting(s) that is intended to purposely distort Paul's writings will not be tolerated."
 
new covenant preacher said:
Jesus makes it pretty clear there was to be no hierarchy. We are called to minister and serve each other, not to serve ourselves, or claim authority over others.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but this is going to be carried out on a simple level since I am no Greek scholar (I am not even Greek literate).

What about Strong's G4245?
πρεσβύτερος presbýteros, pres-boo'-ter-os; comparative of πρέσβυς présbys (elderly); older; as noun, a senior; specially, an Israelite Sanhedrist (also figuratively, member of the celestial council) or Christian "presbyter":—elder(-est), old.

As in ...
Acts 14:23 NASB When they had appointed elders G4245 for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 15:1-5 NASB
1 Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders G4245 concerning this issue. 3 Therefore, being sent on their way by the church, they were passing through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and were bringing great joy to all the brethren. 4 When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders G4245, and they reported all that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”
(Note, this matter is settled by James making a decision.)

Acts 20:17 NASB From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders G4245 of the church.

1 Timothy 5:17 NASB The elders G4245 who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.

Titus 1:5 NASB For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders G4245 in every city as I directed you,

James 5:14 NASB Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders G4245 of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;

I guess you get the idea by this point.
So I understand where you get the idea that the Church has only one Head, and I get where you get the idea that a leader is to be a servant and not served. However, from what I have read in the Bible, I am not quite sure where you get the conclusion that the Church has no leaders within it.
 
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