No Man Has Seen God And Lived...HA! Revelation!!

[Edward]

So it is widely held that there is scripture which says no man has seen God and lived. I started thinking about this, and thought, waitaminute...Abraham did, and a couple others, what's up with that? So I went to the scriptures and the Strong's Concordance (E-Sword) and did a little research, and it was very interesting what I read in the original language, so thought I'd share. Here's the scripture:

Exodus 33:20
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.(KJV)

So in the Concordance I looked up the words. "Man" had an insight!

Man (H120)
אדם
'âdâm
aw-dawm'
From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person./ (E-Sword)

Low man! This reads to me as if it means...sinners or unbelievers and not the saved righteous ones!

Anyone see any holes in my thinking?

 

[jasoncran]

yes, the YHWH hid his moses face from himself. for he said no man may see my face and live. read the account in exodus 33.

 

[evenifigoalone]

There's a verse in Isiah I thought of when this was brought up in Bible study.
"Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."~Isiah 6:5 KJV

I was wondering about that verse during the lesson, but didn't end up bringing it up.

 

[Edward]

yes, the YHWH hid his moses face from himself. for he said no man may see my face and live. read the account in exodus 33.

It does say that. But there were others.

GENESIS .17.1
Abram saw God: "When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless." (Gen. 17:1)
JACOB SAW GOD AND WAS BLESSED BY HIM
25 When the man saw that he could not gain the advantage over Jacob, he touched his hip socket; that put Jacob' s hip out of joint as he wrestled with him. 26 Then he said, "Let me go, for day is breaking." But Jacob said, "I will not let you go, unless you bless me." 27 And he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob." 28 Then he said, "Your name will no longer be called Jacob, but instead Israel, for you have wrestled with Elohim and with men, and have prevailed." (32:25-28)
FROM JACOB VS. GOD WRESTLING FOR A BLESSING

JOHN THE APOSTLE SAW THE ALMIGHTY GOD
Revelation 1:17 (New King James Version
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me,[a] “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.

John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."
(Exodus 24:9-11) – “Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.”

What about these men? Righteous men all, no sinners.

 

[Edward]

There's a verse in Isiah I thought of when this was brought up in Bible study.
"Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."~Isiah 6:5 KJV

I was wondering about that verse during the lesson, but didn't end up bringing it up.

Isaiah did too! You are exactly right. Thank you sister.

 

[jasoncran]

Jacob didn't see god , he wrestled with an angel unto the lord.

remember that the angel of the lord is a controversy is he jesus? or someone else?

isiah had a vision, seeing in a vision isn't seeing with eyes. moses had god pass him and he had his hands cover him. so moses was a sinner?

exodus 33

And the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name

moses then asked this

And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live

moses was given grace by god and yet he was told he couldn't see his face. so what gives?

and the actual event.

And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

 

[Lewis]

God's glory is to great for a man to look upon. He would have to come through a angel or do something else for a man to be able to take Him. His glory is so great that a mere human would die looking at God, we are just flesh.

 

[Edward]

Jacob didn't see god , he wrestled with an angel unto the lord.

remember that the angel of the lord is a controversy is he jesus? or someone else?

isiah had a vision, seeing in a vision isn't seeing with eyes. moses had god pass him and he had his hands cover him. so moses was a sinner?

exodus 33



moses then asked this moses was given grace by god and yet he was told he couldn't see his face. so what gives?

and the actual event.

Well...aside from the details of specific events, would you tend to agree with my original post about the definition of "man"?

John 14:7
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him./(KJV)

 

[Lewis]

I'll say this one more time.

Lewis wrote
God's glory is to great for a man to look upon. He would have to come through a angel or do something else for a man to be able to take Him. His glory is so great that a mere human would die looking at God, we are just flesh.

 

[Edward]

I'll say this one more time.

Lewis wrote
God's glory is to great for a man to look upon. He would have to come through a angel or do something else for a man to be able to take Him. His glory is so great that a mere human would die looking at God, we are just flesh.

I would agree for sinners, but what about like...for Moses. He came back down off the mountain and was radiating glory from having been in Gods presence. So much so, that the people asked him to put a veil over his face so the light wouldn't hurt their eyes.

Generally speaking, I agree with you. But I think that God either protects His people from it or perhaps uh...turns down the intensity of His glory or something, I'm not sure. Many people who have had near death experiences and say they have been in the throne room of God, come back and live. I dunno.

 

[farouk]

There's a verse in Isiah I thought of when this was brought up in Bible study.
"Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."~Isiah 6:5 KJV

I was wondering about that verse during the lesson, but didn't end up bringing it up.

This was in the Old Testament. In the light of the New Testament revealed doctrine of the Incarnation of the Son of God, it can truly be said:

'Veiled in flesh the Godhead see,
Hail, incarnate Deity!
Pleased as Man with man to dwell,
Jesus, our Emmanuel.'

Blessings.

 

[Edward]

This was in the Old Testament. In the light of the New Testament revealed doctrine of the Incarnation of the Son of God, it can truly be said:

'Veiled in flesh the Godhead see,
Hail, incarnate Deity!
Pleased as Man with man to dwell,
Jesus, our Emmanuel.'

Blessings.

Where's that from brother? Interesting.

We may not understand it, (but since when would that not make it so, lol?) According to Exodus 33:20 and the definitions from the original language which indicates lowly men, (men of sin)...it makes sense, does it not, brothers and sisters?

Thanks Farouk. What you wrote (wherever it is from) leans to the same thinking.

 

[farouk]

Where's that from brother? Interesting.

We may not understand it, (but since when would that not make it so, lol?) According to Exodus 33:20 and the definitions from the original language which indicates lowly men, (men of sin)...it makes sense, does it not, brothers and sisters?

Thanks Farouk. What you wrote (wherever it is from) leans to the same thinking.

It's from 'Hark, the herald angels sing'.

 

[Edward]

It's from 'Hark, the herald angels sing'.

Really! Very cool. I did not realize that. Thanks brother.

 

[farouk]

Really! Very cool. I did not realize that. Thanks brother.

YW

 

[jasoncran]

Well...aside from the details of specific events, would you tend to agree with my original post about the definition of "man"?

John 14:7
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him./(KJV)

no, that in context puts adam(man the word man in Hebrew it the adama) in bad light prior to his sin. thus wrong.

 

[JLB]

So it is widely held that there is scripture which says no man has seen God and lived. I started thinking about this, and thought, waitaminute...Abraham did, and a couple others, what's up with that? So I went to the scriptures and the Strong's Concordance (E-Sword) and did a little research, and it was very interesting what I read in the original language, so thought I'd share. Here's the scripture:

Exodus 33:20
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.(KJV)

So in the Concordance I looked up the words. "Man" had an insight!

Man (H120)
אדם
'âdâm
aw-dawm'
From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person./ (E-Sword)

Low man! This reads to me as if it means...sinners or unbelievers and not the saved righteous ones!

Anyone see any holes in my thinking?

Edward,

The Lord is teaching you something about Jesus, before He became flesh.

Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. John 6:46

also -

18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

God in this verse is a reference to The Father.

No one has seen God [The Father].

The rest of the verse indicates the Son as being distinct from the Father, yet being with Him as well as expressing Him.


In the old testament, many saw God, yet they were seeing The Son, who is YHWH The Lord God.

Hagar:

9 The Angel of the Lord said to her, "Return to your mistress, and submit yourself under her hand." 10 Then the Angel of the Lord said to her, "I will multiply your descendants exceedingly, so that they shall not be counted for multitude." 11 And the Angel of the Lord said to her: "Behold, you are with child, And you shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, Because the Lord has heard your affliction. 12 He shall be a wild man; His hand shall be against every man, And every man's hand against him. And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." 13 Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, "Have I also here seen Him who sees me?"

Abraham:

1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.


Moses:

1 Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, "I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn." 4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am."

The Angel of The Lord
The Lord
God

This is the three-fold progressive understanding of Who The Lord Jesus is before He became flesh.


Samson's Parents: Judges 13 -

3 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to the woman and said to her, "Indeed now, you are barren and have borne no children, but you shall conceive and bear a son. 4 Now therefore, please be careful not to drink wine or similar drink, and not to eat anything unclean. 5 For behold, you shall conceive and bear a son. And no razor shall come upon his head, for the child shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb; and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines." 6 So the woman came and told her husband, saying, "A Man of God came to me, and His countenance was like the countenance of the Angel of God, very awesome; but I did not ask Him where He was from, and He did not tell me His name.

9 And God listened to the voice of Manoah, and the Angel of God came to the woman again as she was sitting in the field; but Manoah her husband was not with her. 10 Then the woman ran in haste and told her husband, and said to him, "Look, the Man who came to me the other day has just now appeared to me!" 11 So Manoah arose and followed his wife. When he came to the Man, he said to Him, "Are You the Man who spoke to this woman?" And He said, "I am."

3 So the Angel of the Lord said to Manoah, "Of all that I said to the woman let her be careful. 14 She may not eat anything that comes from the vine, nor may she drink wine or similar drink, nor eat anything unclean. All that I commanded her let her observe." 15 Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, "Please let us detain You, and we will prepare a young goat for You." 16 And the Angel of the Lord said to Manoah, "Though you detain Me, I will not eat your food. But if you offer a burnt offering, you must offer it to the Lord." (For Manoah did not know He was the Angel of the Lord.) 17 Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, "What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?" 18 And the Angel of the Lord said to him, "Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?"

21 When the Angel of the Lord appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the Lord. 22 And Manoah said to his wife, "We shall surely die, because we have seen God!"


Jesus is YHWH, The Lord God Almighty.

He is not God the Father.

He is God, the only Begotten of the Father.

God [The Word] became flesh, to take on our sins.

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16


JLB

 

[Edward]

That makes all sorts of sense.
I am learning lately. Pressing in. This is what I ask for. He's answering me. Praise the Lord and I look forward to the day I can receive a download of revelation and not so slow as this dumb flesh can take as right now. Seems slow anyway, lol.

 

[Edward]

no, that in context puts adam(man the word man in Hebrew it the adama) in bad light prior to his sin. thus wrong.

Nah. I disagree brother. Context. This was said in the NT. Before mans sin, we knew God and walked with Him daily. We had relationship. In the cool of the evening every day.

:yes

 

[Sinthesis]

Think of all the ways God can choose to reveal Himself. In a burning bush, in a pillar of fire, in various theophanic bodies that might resemble those of men. Does His revelation mean that one can actually understand God as He actually is? To the full magnitude of His glory? Of course not, because we can't even understand the concept of the Trinity. God is infinite and we are not. However, what we can know of God the Father, as He actually is, has been reveled to us by Him in summary form as Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Spirit.