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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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No where in the Renewed Covenant
- Thread starter Elteqay
- Start date
Hey All,
Elteqay, I cannot. Saturday is still the Sabbath. But Paul did say this to me Romans:
Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
We, as believers, are allowed to decide for ourselves. For example, if we apply Paul's teaching to the keeping of the Sabbath, some may choose to do so. Some may not. It is a personal choice. Paul goes on and applies it to eating. Some people may choose not to eat foods considered unclean. Others, who consider no food unclean, are not so restricted. Is this what you are trying to find? I hope this helps. Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz
Elteqay, I cannot. Saturday is still the Sabbath. But Paul did say this to me Romans:
Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
We, as believers, are allowed to decide for ourselves. For example, if we apply Paul's teaching to the keeping of the Sabbath, some may choose to do so. Some may not. It is a personal choice. Paul goes on and applies it to eating. Some people may choose not to eat foods considered unclean. Others, who consider no food unclean, are not so restricted. Is this what you are trying to find? I hope this helps. Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz
I know people like to use that Scripture about keeping or not keeping Shabbat. The problem with that is.....it's not talking about Shabbat. It is talking about food and fasting. The whole chapter of Romans 14 is about food, Jews fasted twice a week which was commonly monday and thursday, goyim did or didn't. Paul also wrote Romans from Corinth who were having similar issues.
Shalom,
Hey All,
Elteqay, I beg to differ. Please read it again. Notice the word "day." Verse five is clearly only referencing the word "day." Verse six addresses food specifically "he that eateth" after addressing "day." So they are clearly two different subjects. Paul uses both subjects to show the Romans, and us, that we who believe are no longer condemned by the Law. I hope this helps. Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz
Elteqay, I beg to differ. Please read it again. Notice the word "day." Verse five is clearly only referencing the word "day." Verse six addresses food specifically "he that eateth" after addressing "day." So they are clearly two different subjects. Paul uses both subjects to show the Romans, and us, that we who believe are no longer condemned by the Law. I hope this helps. Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz
The Greek doesn't back your claim in verse 5 as being the Shabbat day....its just a day when you eat or don't eat. But you can disagree.
Mungo
Member
I don't know what you mean by Set Apart Times or Feast Times so I will keep to the Sabbath.
There is a long and short answer to this.
The short one is that sabbath keeping was give to the Israelites as part of the Covenant Law for the Sinai Covenant. It also applied to any gentiles living in the land occupied by the Israelites, but not to gentiles outside the land. It was the sign of the Covenant.
So it never applied to the vast majority of the gentiles in the world - just to s specific small number.
Moreover that Covenant is no more.
Paul is quite clear that the Jews are no longer under that Law.
Galatians 3:
Before faith came, we [Jews] were held in custody under law, confined for the faith that was to be revealed. Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a disciplinarian. (Gal 3:23-25).
We (Jews) are not under the Law
Col 2 says much the same:
And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Col 2:14)
The Book of Hebrews makes this replacement of the Old Covenant by the New very clear.
On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law brought nothing to perfection; on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:18-19)
When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well. (Heb 7:12)
For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. But he finds fault with them and says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will conclude a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. (Heb 8:7-8)
When he speaks of a “new” covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing (Heb 8:13)
He takes away the first to establish the second (Heb 10:9)
As the post states, and as Josef also testified, there's is no Scripture in the NT. where the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob changed His Sabbath or His Set Apart Feast times.
For those of you in the church whose Rabbi is Paul let's read what he wrote in Romans 8:2-8...For the Torah of the Spirit of Life in Messiah Yahusha has set me free from the Torah of sin and death. For what was impossible under the Torah for the flesh to do, Yahuah did in sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh; That the "Righteousness of the Torah" might be FULFILLED in US, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do set their mind on the flesh; but they that walk after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against Yah: for it is not subject to the Torah of Yahuah, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please Yah.
This is not a difficult passage to understand. The Righteousness of Torah is fulfilled in those who walk after the Ruach/Spirit. Those who are not subject to the Torah, are those who are carnally minded and walk after the flesh and as it is written those who are in the flesh cannot please Yahuah Elohyim.
Messiah is the Torah ! He is the Sabbath, the Feast, and the Commandments.
That isn't what Paul states. There is no reason to put Jewish words that Paul didn't use into a Greek text written to a Gentile church.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (ESV)
Mungo
Member
I showed you with many scriptures that the Law, which contained the instruction on sabbath keeping, was abolished but you have just ignored them.
So you believe Shaul a Benjaminmite and a Pharisee spoke Greek and if he did he didn't use words that transliterated Hebrew thought into Greek....it just goes against what you have been taught....the whole of Scripture is a Hebrew document and when the NT is translated back into Hebrew there are tons of word play that is seen only in Hebrew. The gospels, the letters, and Revelation are steeped in them.
There is no evidence for the claim that the NT was written in Hebrew first and then translated into Greek.
Messiah said different....and Paul if you study the Greek is totally ambiguous as to what he is talking about....Torah as Messiah taught it, Torah as Moses taught it, or is it the Mishna which is the Oral Torah.....it's not plan. Where as Messiah taught in Matthew 5 and Matthew 7 it is the Torah of Yahuah. Very plan.
Well, I disagree !
You are free to, but what makes more sense, that Paul originally wrote his letters in Hebrew to Greek-speaking Gentile churches, which were then translated into Greek, with no evidence to show for it, or that he simply wrote in Greek?
Yes.
For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. Hebrews 7:12
We are no longer under obligation to observe the Sabbath as was required under the law of Moses.
- Example of how the Lord commanded the Sabbath to be observed under the law of Moses —
Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Exodus 31:15
We no longer keep the Sabbath as commanded by the law of Moses.
JLB
Mungo
Member
Again you are just giving your opinion and ignoring the scriptures I gave you that show you are wrong..
Messiah said; Think not that I Am come to destroy the Torah or the prophets: For I say unto you, Till Heaven and Earth pass not one Yod or tittle shall in no wise pass from the Torah, till all be fulfilled....all of the Scripture has not been fulfilled.
The sun went down yesterday and it has risen this morning, Earth is functioning.
Mungo
Member
Messiah said; Think not that I Am come to destroy the Torah or the prophets: For I say unto you, Till Heaven and Earth pass not one Yod or tittle shall in no wise pass from the Torah, till all be fulfilled....all of the Scripture has not been fulfilled.
There is a double condition here:
Till Heaven and Earth pass [condition #1]
not one Yod or tittle shall in no wise pass from the Torah [ action]
till all be fulfilled. [condition #2]
Jesus is not referring to all of scripture but to the Law [Torah]
In other words the law will not ever pass away (condition #1) unless it is fulfilled first (condition #2).
Now Jesus says he has come to fulfil the Law – and he does.
So when Jesus fulfilled the law it became obsolete, as Heb 8:13 says
In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
BTW Your translation says "Think not that I Am come to destroy the Torah". But Jesus did not destroy the Law. He fulfilled. it.
And again - you are ignoring all the scriptures I gave you in post #6 that show you are wrong?
I wonder why?
Is it because you have no answer to them?
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The letters of Paul are written in a Hebrew and Greek style.....do you think the church at Rome spoke Greek or was it Latin.... or was it a mixture of Hebrew, Latin, and Greek ?