Non-Christians more caring than Christians

[Destructus86]

There is something that has been on my mind for a while…Somethingthat’s really bothered me about Christians mainly in America at themoment. I see the cold, self-righteousattitudes. The hateful responses from Christians over gay marriage debates. The multitude of answers to simplequestions. Heck, I know someone who usedto go to church and when she announced she was gay, ALL the people she knew andwere friends with slowly drifted away from her after that. So much for love.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

It’s all these things…the horrible attitude of Christiansthat bothers me. It’s sad when I canfind more legitimately friendly and caring Atheists than I can Christians. Doesn’t it bother anyone else that we claimChrist leads to peace and yet a seemingly majority don’t even come close tofitting the description of a Christian? <o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Let’s discuss this…<o:p></o:p>

 

[Knotical]

This is just a symptom of people who either are, or claim to be, Christians yet do not have a sound understanding of what the bible teaches. It is important to point out that God does not hate sinners, He hates sin, yet many people get this wrong.

However, that being said, there is a specific way to handle those who fall into the delusion that being gay is ok. Or even handling those who are sinning and are unrepentant over it. There is a step that the bible tells us that we are not to associate with them, but point of this is to allow God to work in their hearts so that they will eventually come back.

 

[Destructus86]

This is just a symptom of people who either are, or claim to be, Christians yet do not have a sound understanding of what the bible teaches. It is important to point out that God does not hate sinners, He hates sin, yet many people get this wrong.

However, that being said, there is a specific way to handle those who fall into the delusion that being gay is ok. Or even handling those who are sinning and are unrepentant over it. There is a step that the bible tells us that we are not to associate with them, but point of this is to allow God to work in their hearts so that they will eventually come back.

And yet Jesus associated with sinners just like that all the time...to the complaints of those who claimed to be followers of God. Heck, He had dinner with them, which is the same as fellowship in that culture.

 

[Knotical]

And yet Jesus associated with sinners just like that all the time...to the complaints of those who claimed to be followers of God. Heck, He had dinner with them, which is the same as fellowship in that culture.

True, but there is a bit of a difference between us and Jesus. That being He is perfect and impervious to external influence and temptation, and we are not.

 

[Destructus86]

And then there is the biggest commandment from Jesus...to love others. We can't love others if we're ignoring them.

 

[Destructus86]

on a side note...I do know the scripture you speak of. And yes, it does say to turn away from them. But that is a last resort sort of thing.

 

[Knotical]

on a side note...I do know the scripture you speak of. And yes, it does say to turn away from them. But that is a last resort sort of thing.

Indeed, but we do not cease loving them. It is because we love them that we turn away from them. It's a complicated emotion.

 

[WIP]

There is something that has been on my mind for a while…Somethingthat’s really bothered me about Christians mainly in America at themoment. I see the cold, self-righteousattitudes. The hateful responses from Christians over gay marriage debates. The multitude of answers to simplequestions. Heck, I know someone who usedto go to church and when she announced she was gay, ALL the people she knew andwere friends with slowly drifted away from her after that. So much for love.ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>

It’s all these things…the horrible attitude of Christiansthat bothers me. It’s sad when I canfind more legitimately friendly and caring Atheists than I can Christians. Doesn’t it bother anyone else that we claimChrist leads to peace and yet a seemingly majority don’t even come close tofitting the description of a Christian? <O:p></O:p>

<O:p></O:p>

Let’s discuss this…<O:p></O:p>

Allow me to present a thought. Would you consider Jesus to be the most caring and loving person you could possibly ever meet? I do!

Funny thing. He was hanged on a cross for caring and loving people enough to point out that we were headed for doom.

If my child is doing something that is potentially dangerous, I would be negligent if I did not intervene and let my child know that he was putting himself in danger.

If my friend is doing something that is potentially dangerous, I would be negligent if I did not intervene and at least tell him about it.

As a Christian who cares for others I would be negligent if I did not intervene and at least tell them that they are putting themselves in danger.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Destructus86.

I understand what your saying and without being a part of your congregation and that incident, it's really hard to know what to do.

When your friend announced she was gay, I would applaud her honesty. But in the same breath I hope that it was a cry for help, and not a justification. Being gay is not a sin, but living a homosexual lifestyle is. It's when we give in to our lusts. Let me put it this way. Every thought that enters your mind, regardless of how sinful it may be, is not sinning in and of itself. Fact is, nobody can control the random thoughts that come into their minds and we are not held accountable for those random thoughts.

What we are held responsible for is what we do with those thoughts. Do we entertain them until they become sinful thoughts, or do we take it to the next level where we act them out. In the case of your friend, if she was trying to justify a homosexual lifestyle, especially if she was acting on those urges and there was no sign of repentance, then the church did as Paul instructed the church in Corinth. Furthermore, if an athiest seems more caring than a Christian about the matter, then it really shouldn't seem all that surprising since most athiests see nothing wrong with homosexual relationships and same sex marriage. But the question really comes down to is this, are we going to be compassionate and side with an athiest, or are we going to be compassionate and side with God's word? We all have to make that choice.

Now then, I do know that there are going to be people who automatically hear the word gay and they are repelled and automatically condemn the gay person... Christian or not. It's not right and I wish it wasn't that way, but sadly it is. For those in the Church that think this black and white, we need to pray for them and study with them. Same goes for those outside the church who think the same way. Honestly, for the older folk I think it's more of a cultural stigma than a Christian stigma.

Now then, if the gal said she was gay and was reaching out and the church rejected her, then double shame on the church... that's not right. You don't reject somebody who needs your help. Hopefully this is not the case, but if it is, then you need to step up to the plate and be the positive influence in your church that stands up for what is right, and acts on it. Talk is cheap and as a Christian, we are called into action. In other words, we are the answers to others prayers if we let God use us. But we have to do something to make it better. We even see Jesus get angry, and he uses that anger to make things better. I'm thinking about the man with a withered hand. The text actually says Jesus got angry, but his actions healed. Use your anger like Jesus did, and make things better, don't add to the garbage that makes things worse.

Finally, I wanted to add to your comment about Jesus eating with sinners. Yes, yes he did. But if we look at the ministry of Jesus, it was a ministry of repentance. John was a voice calling out making straight the way for Christ. Jesus continued that ministry. Jesus was called to bring back the lost sheep to a way in line with how God wanted them to live. He even states, "stop sinning, or something worse will happen to you" and he told us that our righteousness had to exceed that of the teachers. Why? Because they missed the mark.

In short, I can't see Jesus saying, "Go on living in your sin, it will be ok". No, I think Jesus says, "I understand your struggles, I'm here with you to help you through".

Again, the ministry of Jesus was a ministry of repentance, and that meant getting to those living in sin and showing them a better way to live in accordance with how God created them to live... and I think he did it with compassion and understanding, but I don't think he ever condoned a sinful lifestyle and for those who want us to condone a sinful lifestyle, well... we should expect to be persecuted.

Grace and Peace.

 

[Hammer]

It's because I care that I don't approve of destructive behavior.

 

[stovebolts]

It's because I care that I don't approve of destructive behavior.

Very well put. Unfortunately this is often misread as being hateful. We can't always articulate our thoughts in a manner that they are received as intended. I've even been falsely accused because what I said wasn't received in the spirit which I said it. It's just how people react... and we're all guilty if we can be honest about it.

 

[Aardverk]

This is a hugely important issue Mr Bolts. You are right to raise it.

In fairness, it isn't just Christians, it is any religious person or group who feel themselves superior or who wish to hold themselves aloof from those they see as sinners. I have observed it, over the years, from many religious groups, Muslims are just as bad, and I THINK I understand what is happening.

None of us wish to be polluted by others. If the person in need happens to be smelly and dirty, perhaps drunk or with an abrasive attitude borne of their hardship, it takes a really determined person to ignore their own personal discomfort and lovingly provide the help that the other person needs.

In the case of 'sinners', non-religious people have fewer cases where they are discomforted by the person in need and they are therefore more likely to provide help and have genuine compassion than their religious counterparts who are distracted by the 'sin'. 'Smelly and dirty' is just allegorical of course!

The problem for Christians to overcome is to open their minds to the possibility that they are not necessarily right all the time - and clearly no one is. If we could all do that, we would be more open to 'difference' and less ready to judge and dismiss others. That leaves us more available to others and able to show genuine compassion and follow the example of Jesus. Bizarrely, that is the 'advantage' that atheists have

 

[stovebolts]

While I agree 100 percent with the jist of your post, I would have to disagree with your statment:

Bizarrely, that is the 'advantage' that atheists have

Athiests are not bound to our cannon. Christians must navigate a straight line that says, "That's sin" while encouraging a change in lifestyle. An athiest on the other hand has no such yoke and can accept a persons lifestyle without recourse.

I grew up hearing my dad say it over and over again.. "Grass is always greener over the septic tank"... and honestly, sexual urges are something the most everyone struggles with, gay or straight. Its' much easier to accept something and justify something when most everyone experiences is than it is to say, "I shouldn't be doing that" and try to change.

 

[Eugene]

There is something that has been on my mind for a while…Somethingthat’s really bothered me about Christians mainly in America at themoment. I see the cold, self-righteousattitudes. The hateful responses from Christians over gay marriage debates. The multitude of answers to simplequestions. Heck, I know someone who usedto go to church and when she announced she was gay, ALL the people she knew andwere friends with slowly drifted away from her after that. So much for love.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

It’s all these things…the horrible attitude of Christians that bothers me. It’s sad when I can find more legitimately friendly and caring Atheists than I can Christians. Doesn't it bother anyone else that we claim Christ leads to peace and yet a seemingly majority don’t even come close to fitting the description of a Christian? <o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

Let’s discuss this…<o:p></o:p>

Dear Destructus86, in the situation you describe there is to be loving care administered to brethren, though not to those in rebellion.

Dealing with brethren.

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2 Thessalonians 3:13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.

2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

2 Thessalonians 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Dealing with those of the world.

What of Jesus eating with sinners? How are we going to reach them without a preacher?

Matthew 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Matthew 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Above we were told not to have fellowship with brethren not walking orderly, but in the following scripture we need not be withdrawn from sinners of the world.

1 Corinthians 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

Is homosexuality sin? It certainly is unseemly and not convenient as per the following scripture.

Romans 1:22-28
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

 

[taikina]

it doesn't have anything to do with how compassionate anyone is. if you're a [removed by staff] you twist any words of love into hate.

 

[Hammer]

And then there is the biggest commandment from Jesus...to love others. We can't love others if we're ignoring them.

When an Athiest accuses Christians of being uncaring for having moral standards, I get an image of a child accusing his mom of being mean because she won't let him eat dessert before dinner.

Christians are acting out of love. Sexually immoral lifestyles create more misery than pleasure. I don't want homosexuals spreading misery by teaching their behavior to impressionable young children or pressuring anyone into homosexual behavior. I want homosexuals themselves to find a happier lifestyle and one that wont leave them condemned for eternity.

(Also, Jesus didn't tell his followers to love everyone.)

 

[evenifigoalone]

I agree to an extent with the point of this thread. Sometimes it seems like Christians can be the most judgmental and the least understanding. I'm not saying we should approve of sin just because it's "none of my business", but I think rather than going to one extreme or the other, it's somewhere in-between.


Some will label anything other than full support as "hate", though. Like once I was talking to someone about how if I had a kid and I had to put him up for adoption for some reason, I would want some say in what family he went to and I wouldn't want him to be raised by certain people. They then got very angry with me and branded me a "hater".
Oh well. Can't make everyone happy, I guess.

 

[Grazer]

There's a perception that if you disagree you hate them or you have to hate them to disagree with them. This simply not the case and if people could get out of this mindset, proper discussions might be able to take place again.

John Lennox when talking about morality always says some of his atheist friends put him to shame by their desire to do good. I have atheist friends who do that with me. There was a sign outside a church that said "God prefers atheists who do good than hateful Christians" (or something along those lines) Not sure how true that statement is but I get the sentiment behind it.

Now homosexuality has been mentioned. Due to the ban on here it will be difficult to give a full response. But I will say that I think some of the comments here are ill-judged and misinformed. The offer for anyone to PM me to discuss further is still open.

Christians have and do a lot of good in this world. They've also done and do a lot of harm. Unfortunately its mostly the latter that you hear about.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Aardverk]

............There was a sign outside a church that said "God prefers atheists who do good than hateful Christians" (or something along those lines) Not sure how true that statement is but I get the sentiment behind it..............

I strongly suspect that the sign you describe is absolutely right.

It should bother all of us that it is so easy to pick out contradictory messages from the bible and let them say whatever YOU want them to say. Because it was so clearly the message from Jesus, the message to love one another is the one that should be most prominent in our minds. Frankly it is the message that gets forgotten most quickly when (many) Christians meet someone who disagrees with their particular beliefs. Believe me - I know! That is largely why I stopped calling myself a Christian.

We are all guessing what, if anything, God wants us to do. None of us actually KNOW. Because we do not KNOW, it is a matter for our individual conscience. I have grave concerns about the way some Christians behave, including some on this forum, but it is not for me to try to stop them or tell them they are sinners, all I can do is try to make them think for themselves - for it is very clear that many do not.

Romans 14:12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.​

Makes sense to me :seehearspeak

 

[Destructus86]

It seems to me in this culture that authentic Christians are really rare. As someone who did a lot of church hopping in the past and being a "people watcher" I've observed a lot from various churches and what I saw was pretty disturbing. During worship a vast majority stand there with empty expressions with a tiny handful really filled with the Spirit in worship of our Lord. It's extremely common. And really frustrating...