Now this is some very interesting reading

[Lewis]

Please stay on topic.

 

[cyberjosh]

Please stay on topic.

Sorry. But I couldn't just standby and let a serious error like that slip. ;)

 

[scorpia]

There is no need for such things because anybody can come to the Lord God Jesus Christ to seek the TRUTH directly from Him (Jesus) in a way that He (Jesus) did to Paul. The Lord himself can teach us all the necessary things that we need for us to attain our salvation and eternal life. Focus and object of our faith should be the Lord God Jesus Christ and not of any written scriptures and the likes, they are just our guide in coming to the Lord.

Oooooh.... big mistake. Earlier in my Christian walk I thought like you did and didn't understand the full role of the Bible in the grand scheme of things

.
Why say mistake the thing which is not? You should have continued to live on your life in that state of belief - the Lord God himself as our Good Pastor and TEacher. And how did it come to you to understand the role of the bible in the grand scheme of things, is it the GRAND CONTROVERSY of religious denominations?

]But infact the Bible is much more than a guide or a manual to life.

Did the Lord give any instruction to anyone among the bible characters to treat any scriptures as our manual to life? The bible is indeed our guide in calling on and coming to directly to the Lord God Jesus Christ. ONLY GOD Himself is our manual to life and in knowing God but not the bible. See what the Lord wanted all nations to know today. The Lord said:

“I said unto a woman, what was the last sin that you committed today? The woman replied, I cannot remember, Then I said, you cannot remember or you do not know the meaning of sin. The woman replied, please forgive me because I do not know the meaning of sin.â€Â

â€ÂI then said unto a rich one doing a charitable work, what was the last sin that you committed today? The woman replied, I never did sin because I was busy doing a charitable work and good deeds. You are stupid with your sin. You will never be saved by your good deeds. Come ye all and I will teach you. Only your Lord can teach you what is the meaning of sin much more so that in the bible many are erratic and are not included that’s why if in it is written do not kill, the meaning of do not is not proper to do but if it will not be your Lord who will teach you, then how will you know that even these are wrong or right? UNLESS YOU THROW AWAY THE OLD, THOSE THAT YOU LEARN BY YOURSELF, THERE AND THEN THAT THE WISDOM COMING FROM THE LORD WILL COME TO YOU BUT IF YOU WILL NOT THROW AWAY THE OLD, YOU WILL REMAIN STUPID IN KNOWING THE MEANING OF SIN BECAUSE NOBODY CAN EVER TEACH YOU THE MEANING OF THOSE BUT YOUR LORD GOD. ANY GOOD DEED WILL SAVE YOU NOT UNLESS YOU TRUST AND ENTRUST YOUR LIFE TO YOUR ALMIGHTY LORD GOD.â€Â

First of all the Bible says that the Word is living and active

God himself is the One living and active but not the written words in the bible. They are not God in the first place but just testimonies to the reality of the existence of God for us to know that there is really God whom we can call on to at any point in time.

and sharper than a double edged sword (Hebrews 4:12).

These are the words that cometh from the mouth of the Lord God but not all in the bible cometh from the mouth of the Lord, In the bible, there are also words of the devil and letters, traditions, laws, and cultures of men which, in reality, are not sharper than a double edged sword.

When the Gospel was preached it was preached not only in word but in power (1 Thessalonians 1:5). Isaiah 55:11 states that God's word cannot return to him empty, it will accomplish his will each time. In other words everytime you read the Bible he will always get a reaction from you. His Word as sown in your heart will return some result.

What power? What reaction will God get from any bible reader? What return in reading the bible are you talking about, divisive denominations? divisive doctrines and teachings of different denominations?

Secondly, and most importantly, Jesus establishes everything that he said as the very thing that will judge us on the last day. His words are our very standard of living. "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. (John 12:48)

Please read carefully what you have written in this part of the quote for it says in part "he that rejected me, and receiveth not my words,....." and as I see it, you have overlooked the word "me" which refers directly to the Lord Jesus Christ who was then speaking to the people around Him. Is the Lord Jesus the bible of today? Wasn't it that the Lord was addressing the people then who would had rejected Him and the words that He uttered to them? Are we, the bible readers of today, the ones being addressed to by the Lord in that bible passage/es? The Lord Jesus can address us to today in that same way that He did to the people then, can't He?

Similarly, for those who do not believe in Jesus, would also have Moses (the law) judge them on the last day. "Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" (John 5:45-47)

Now you're talking about Jesus and this is good. Jesus is still speaking to people today and anyone who call on to Him in the right way will be responded to by the Lord in any manner that He did to biblical people then. Do you believe Jesus deals with the people today in the same manner as He did in the biblical times and days? Do you believe Jesus is not the bible that you are reading today? Do you believe that you can talk to Jesus and that Jesus can talk to you in our time today?

Obviously this also requires us to believe Moses and the words he wrote in the law. The Bible is very important, it is a foundation, and it is an agent of salvation that is living and has real power. Consider the relevance of the Bible in the life of all believers, and meditate on the Bible's words as the Holy Spirit gives you understanding. In fact it is by reading God's Word that he Holy Spirit begins to transform you from the inside out. "The kingdom of God is like a man who casts seed upon the soil; and goes to bed at night and gets up by day, and the seed sprouts up and grows-- how, he himself does not know." (Mark 4:27) How the Word grows in our heart by the Holy Spirit we don't exactly know, but we do know that it does infact grow. The Bible is extremely important, let us not loose sight of this.

The Lord teaches today that the bible is just a testimony to the reality of the existence of God and our guide for us mankind to call on and come to directly to the Lord God himself. God himself is the sole authority in all Truth. The Lord God is also the only source and final authority in all TRUTH, no others, no anything else. The Lord God is our only Good Pastor and Teacher and the only rewarder of eternal life, no others, no anything else. God himself is over and above all things and He is the only ONe who will bring us to light and our salvation, hence we have to come to God instead of running around in circles via men's understanding of what he only reads and understands. Give the glory and praises to God only.

 

[cyberjosh]

These are the words that cometh from the mouth of the Lord God but not all in the bible cometh from the mouth of the Lord, In the bible, there are also words of the devil and letters, traditions, laws, and cultures of men which, in reality, are not sharper than a double edged sword.

All of the Bible's contents were inspired by God to be written down for a purpose, even Satan's (so that we may know how he operates), and His establishments and inspirations are as powerful and everlasting as His words. So don't try to make up a convenient excuse.

God's inspired Word will provoke a reaction. You will either believe the words or not. You will either learn a lesson or not. And God's Spirit in the believer makes the word very much alive. The seeds in the parable of the seed and the sower represent the word of God, and as we see it can grow (so done by the Holy Spirit), but how much it does grow depends on the heart (the soil it lands on). And the Bible makes it clear that the Holy Spirit will give us proper understanding of the Word if we study with diligence (2 Timothy 3:16, 1 John 2:27, Psalm 19:8, 11).

What power? What reaction will God get from any bible reader? What return in reading the bible are you talking about, divisive denominations? divisive doctrines and teachings of different denominations?

As I said above: God's inspired Word will provoke a reaction. You will either believe the words or not. You will either learn a lesson or not.

Please read carefully what you have written in this part of the quote for it says in part "he that rejected me, and receiveth not my words,....." and as I see it, you have overlooked the word "me" which refers directly to the Lord Jesus Christ who was then speaking to the people around Him. Is the Lord Jesus the bible of today? Wasn't it that the Lord was addressing the people then who would had rejected Him and the words that He uttered to them? Are we, the bible readers of today, the ones being addressed to by the Lord in that bible passage/es? The Lord Jesus can address us to today in that same way that He did to the people then, can't He?

Recieving his words are inseperable from receiving Jesus, that's why they are in such close proximity. Notice how Jesus elsewhere ties the person to their writings and sayings: "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?" (John 5:46-47)

And his words are written in the Bible that was my point. How else would we even know about Jesus and his teachings if not through the inspired testimony given to us in the Bible?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Lewis,

I did not go all the way through this web site, but maybe you can find something here.

http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-books-mentioned-bible.htm

 

[scorpia]

All of the Bible's contents were inspired by God to be written down for a purpose, even Satan's (so that we may know how he operates), and His establishments and inspirations are as powerful and everlasting as His words. So don't try to make up a convenient excuse.

The Lord God said that the bible is written down for only one purpose and that is for the bible to testify to us (readers of it) that God is really existing alive and real in all ages so that whoever may read same may call on and come to God, the Almighty ONe who is our Good Pastor and Teacher. The bible is not made to be the manual of the people in knowing fully well the identity of the Lord God because the Lord God can speak to us individually or collectively.

As I said above: God's inspired Word will provoke a reaction. You will either believe the words or not. You will either learn a lesson or not.

Yes indeed, those who read the bible mostly establish their own group or denamination and introduce their own teachings and doctrines based on how do they understand what they read from the bible. That's what they get in reading the bible instead of calling on and coming to the Lord God.

Recieving his words are inseperable from receiving Jesus, that's why they are in such close proximity.

How can you receive the words of the Lord if the Lord will not utter them to you? Receiving the words that you read in the bible is not the same as receiving the words that are being uttered to you by the Lord? The bible is not the Lord God hence receiving the words in the bible is only receiving the bible itself but calling on and coming to the Lord God is totally a different thing because this is where the real words of God may come to you through the utterance of the Lord God himself.

Notice how Jesus elsewhere ties the person to their writings and sayings: "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?" (John 5:46-47)

What Jesus wanted the people to do then is for them to focus their belief to the Him as the Lord God himself, not to the words of the scripture that Moses wrote and what I'm telling you now is also to call on and come to Jesus our God and focus your belief to Him so that Jesus may come in to your life. Jesus, without the bible, can utter to you what are the true words in the true scriptures that He permitted to be written down.

And his words are written in the Bible that was my point.

I agree but with you alone, you cannot determine which from among the words of the bible are of the Lord and which are not. You have to call on and come to Jesus and let Jesus be your Good Pastor and Teacher of the bible. What's wrong with this?

How else would we even know about Jesus and his teachings if not through the inspired testimony given to us in the Bible?

This is where you are grossly mistaken for we can learn and know Jesus himself as God and His teachings by calling on and coming to Him as the real and alive true God of all ages.. WE have to seek Jesus true to our heart and our soul and even without the bible, Jesus can come in to our life and teach us about Himself and of His real teachings.

 

[cyberjosh]

Pray for me, because I'm starting to get frustrated with this conversation.

The Lord God said that the bible is written down for only one purpose and that is for the bible to testify to us (readers of it) that God is really existing alive and real in all ages so that whoever may read same may call on and come to God, the Almighty ONe who is our Good Pastor and Teacher.

Verse please? I need Scripture.

The bible is not made to be the manual of the people in knowing fully well the identity of the Lord God because the Lord God can speak to us individually or collectively.

God can speak by His Word! Why else would the Bible tell us that the Holy Spirit could lead us to understand all the things that Jesus said (John 14:26, 1 John 2:27) which by-the-way first requires us to have read his words in order to know & understand them. They don't just come to you by some mystical telepathy! And understanding & truth is only granted us if we abide in his Word (John 8:31).

Yes indeed, those who read the bible mostly establish their own group or denamination and introduce their own teachings and doctrines based on how do they understand what they read from the bible. That's what they get in reading the bible instead of calling on and coming to the Lord God.

Is this going in one ear and out the other? They work in tandem, together! You take your matters of understanding the Bible to God, and the Scriptures I referenced above will be fulfilled.

How can you receive the words of the Lord if the Lord will not utter them to you?

Think about how stupid this question is. Ears are for hearing, eyes are for seeing, God gave us both for a reason and God inspired men (or do you not even believe 2 Timothy 3:16) to write down his words and by reading it we recieve his words. God must & will reinforce it in our lives when we actually claim his promises, but the Bible is what informs us of these things when we go to God. And think about all the instances in Ezekiel and Jeremiah that God said, "Write my words on a scroll." God's word can be channeled through men and put into writing. God said to Jeremiah "Behold, I am making My words in your mouth fire and this people wood, and it will consume them." It didn't matter what Jeremiah said, they were God's words for him to speak. God made Jeremiah's words his own, and this is the exact same thing that God did for the inspired men who wrote the Bible, He gave them His words that He desired written down on a scroll (2 Timothy 3:16). And it can also consume like fire, because it is living and active in written form just like it is in audible form.

The reason is because both audible words and marks on paper both represent the truth and reality that is in the meaning behind them. It's not as if the sound waves themselves coming from Jeremiah's mouth accomplished this. So the written form carries the same power. You are making an issue out of semantics, and thus commiting a fallacy in your thinking.

Think about also why God told Ezekiel to eat that scroll: becuase it was symbolic of putting God's written word in your heart. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." (Psalm 119:11) David said that he meditated on God's word's day and night. God told them to bind his words to their arms and foreheads (though metaphorically), from which now comes the tradition of Jewish phylacteries.

Receiving the words that you read in the bible is not the same as receiving the words that are being uttered to you by the Lord? The bible is not the Lord God hence receiving the words in the bible is only receiving the bible itself but calling on and coming to the Lord God is totally a different thing because this is where the real words of God may come to you through the utterance of the Lord God himself.

Same response as above.

What Jesus wanted the people to do then is for them to focus their belief to the Him as the Lord God himself, not to the words of the scripture that Moses wrote and what I'm telling you now is also to call on and come to Jesus our God and focus your belief to Him so that Jesus may come in to your life. Jesus, without the bible, can utter to you what are the true words in the true scriptures that He permitted to be written down.

No you're dodging the issue. Jesus made it clear that they could believe Moses if they had believed what wrote about Jesus. If they had first believed what he wrote then they would have been equiped to believe what Jesus said. That is exactly why I emphasise the importance of reading the Bible!!! Do not let yourself be decieved.

This is where you are grossly mistaken for we can learn and know Jesus himself as God and His teachings by calling on and coming to Him as the real and alive true God of all ages..

Funny, that sounds like every other religion's approach to God which says, "We don't need any Sciptures, we can discover God for ourselves." Get real man, how do you think polytheism started in the first place? They acknowledged that there was a God but they wanted to "discover God for themselves" and ended up corrupting His holy image (Romans 1:23). The Bible is necessary for proper understanding of God. Without it we will stray from God.

WE have to seek Jesus true to our heart and our soul and even without the bible, Jesus can come in to our life and teach us about Himself and of His real teachings.

The last time I heard an "we just have to seek God, and open ourselves up, and let him teach us" statement it came out of the mouth of a medium for spirits (a spiritist - Deuteronomy 18:10-11). She really started to scare me with her neo-Gnostic beliefs and her "spiritual insights" from demons.

Be careful what you are getting yourself into with that train of thought.

 

[scorpia]

Pray for me, because I'm starting to get frustrated with this conversation.

ok I'll pray for you not to get frustrated with this converstion. I almost lost this thread, thanks for your private message.

The Lord God said that the bible is written down for only one purpose and that is for the bible to testify to us (readers of it) that God is really existing alive and real in all ages so that whoever may read same may call on and come to God, the Almighty ONe who is our Good Pastor and Teacher.

Verse please? I need Scripture.

What I said is that "The Lord God said that the bible is written down for only one purpose...." and I did not say that "I read from the bible or the bible says that....", why ask me verse when what I'm saying comes from the Lord God himself like what God gave to Moses and/or Jeremiah, or the apostles?

The bible is not made to be the manual of the people in knowing fully well the identity of the Lord God because the Lord God can speak to us individually or collectively.

God can speak by His Word! Why else would the Bible tell us that the Holy Spirit could lead us to understand all the things that Jesus said (John 14:26, 1 John 2:27) which by-the-way first requires us to have read his words in order to know & understand them. They don't just come to you by some mystical telepathy! And understanding & truth is only granted us if we abide in his Word (John 8:31).

In reading the bible, we can see that God spoke to the prophets and the apostles directly and not thru the scriptures, does God change His dealings with mankind today? Why through the bible or His word as you do claim? What is God to you? Is God only a written word/s to you? Abiding in the Lord himself and not with the bible or with what is written is the right undertaking that we can do in our life for us to attain salvation and eternal life. Can you please tell us how you are being taught by the Holy Spirit since all denominations claim this phenomenom about HS but none so far can elucidate this one clearly. The Lord God Jesus Christ himself is the One teaching His believers and not the Holy Spirit whom the Lord God Jesus Christ only sent to His believers to filled them bodily and for them to physically feel the presence of God.

Yes indeed, those who read the bible mostly establish their own group or denamination and introduce their own teachings and doctrines based on how they do understand what they read from the bible. That's what they get in reading the bible instead of calling on and coming to the Lord God.

Is this going in one ear and out the other? They work in tandem, together! You take your matters of understanding the Bible to God, and the Scriptures I referenced above will be fulfilled.

Seeing reality is really relative in this case and you can go on with what you see and I on what I see, tool

="cybershark5886"How can you receive the words of the Lord if the Lord will not utter them to you?

Think about how stupid this question is. Ears are for hearing, eyes are for seeing, God gave us both for a reason and God inspired men (or do you not even believe 2 Timothy 3:16) to write down his words and by reading it we recieve his words. God must & will reinforce it in our lives when we actually claim his promises, but the Bible is what informs us of these things when we go to God. And think about all the instances in Ezekiel and Jeremiah that God said, "Write my words on a scroll." God's word can be channeled through men and put into writing. God said to Jeremiah "Behold, I am making My words in your mouth fire and this people wood, and it will consume them." It didn't matter what Jeremiah said, they were God's words for him to speak. God made Jeremiah's words his own, and this is the exact same thing that God did for the inspired men who wrote the Bible, He gave them His words that He desired written down on a scroll (2 Timothy 3:16). And it can also consume like fire, because it is living and active in written form just like it is in audible form.

The reason is because both audible words and marks on paper both represent the truth and reality that is in the meaning behind them. It's not as if the sound waves themselves coming from Jeremiah's mouth accomplished this. So the written form carries the same power. You are making an issue out of semantics, and thus commiting a fallacy in your thinking.

Think about also why God told Ezekiel to eat that scroll: becuase it was symbolic of putting God's written word in your heart. "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." (Psalm 119:11) David said that he meditated on God's word's day and night. God told them to bind his words to their arms and foreheads (though metaphorically), from which now comes the tradition of Jewish phylacteries.

There must be a giver for anyone to receive something from someone but in reading you receive nothing from someone but only read something from a reading material or a book. Even the books of the bible that we have today had just been unearthed or discovered and the ones who discovered them received nothing from someone but just discovered these wrtings in the same way that we just buy the bible from the bookstore or receive it from a friend but not from the Lord God whereas Moses did received the stone tablets directly from God. God is alive and God can utter them all to you and you need not to interpret the bible because God himself can do that for you should you just take heed in calling on and coming directly to God.

What Jesus wanted the people to do then is for them to focus their belief to the Him as the Lord God himself, not to the words of the scripture that Moses wrote and what I'm telling you now is also to call on and come to Jesus our God and focus your belief to Him so that Jesus may come in to your life. Jesus, without the bible, can utter to you what are the true words in the true scriptures that He permitted to be written down.

No you're dodging the issue. Jesus made it clear that they could believe Moses if they had believed what wrote about Jesus. If they had first believed what he wrote then they would have been equiped to believe what Jesus said. That is exactly why I emphasise the importance of reading the Bible!!! Do not let yourself be decieved.

Can you tell me what did Moses write about the Lord God that Jesus was invoking? I do not disagree with you to read the bible but what I am aflter for is for us to consult God after reading the bible because the Lord God is our Teacher and not those man pastors of today. Did not Moses write to put all our trust in the Lord God in general?

This is where you are grossly mistaken for we can learn and know Jesus himself as God and His teachings by calling on and coming to Him as the real and alive true God of all ages..

Funny, that sounds like every other religion's approach to God which says, "We don't need any Sciptures, we can discover God for ourselves." Get real man, how do you think polytheism started in the first place? They acknowledged that there was a God but they wanted to "discover God for themselves" and ended up corrupting His holy image (Romans 1:23). The Bible is necessary for proper understanding of God. Without it we will stray from God.

What is sure and certain is that even without the bible, God is always there for everyone and all things and if anyone call on and come to God true to his heart and his soul, God will come in to his life even if he has no bible at all. Without God, we will stray from the way leading to the kingdom of God. God is the light the shines to the way leading to God and his kingdom and not the bible.

WE have to seek Jesus true to our heart and our soul and even without the bible, Jesus can come in to our life and teach us about Himself and of His real teachings.

The last time I heard an "we just have to seek God, and open ourselves up, and let him teach us" statement it came out of the mouth of a medium for spirits (a spiritist - Deuteronomy 18:10-11). She really started to scare me with her neo-Gnostic beliefs and her "spiritual insights" from demons.

Be careful what you are getting yourself into with that train of thought

What I'm telling you is for you to call on and come directly to God and not to a medium of spirits. Do it by yourself and focus your attention directly to God. Will God give you a demon when it is really God whom you are calling on? You are greatly mistaken bro. Even the bible tells us that our FAther will not give us stones when we are asking for a bread. Same is true in calling on and coming to God.