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Oh You BetterWatch Out You Better Not...

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“Repent or Perish” forces people to ponder seriously the popular slogan, “God hates the sin and loves the sinner.”



Is a necessary repentance consistent with “God loves the sinner?” If God loves the sinner while he is alive, it is strange that God sends him to hell as soon as he dies. God loves the sinner to death? Loves him to everlasting torment?
There is something wrong here. Either God loves the sinner and will not send him into the furnace of His eternal wrath; or He sends him into His eternal wrath and does not love him. Either “you are going to hell unless” because God hates you, as you are. Or, God loves you and “you are going to hell unless” is false.
What leads almost everyone to believe that God loves the sinner is that God does the sinner so much good. He bestows so many favors including letting him continue to live. How can God let the sinner live and give him so many blessings, unless He loves him? There is a kind of love between God and sinners. We call it the “love of benevolence.” That means the love of good will. Benevolens — willing well. Doing well. God can do well to the sinner without loving him with the other kind of love. “Complacent love,” a pleasure in, affection for, admiration of. It exists in perfection between the Father and the Son, “in whom I am well pleased”(Matt.3:17; Mk.1:11).
God is perfectly displeased with the sinner. The sinner hates God, disobeys God, is ungrateful to God for all His favors, would kill God if he could. He is dead in trespasses and sins. (Eph.2:1) “The thoughts and intents of his heart are only evil continually.” (Gen.6:5) He is the slave of sin (John 8:34), the servant of the devil, (Eph.2:2).
God has no complacent love for the sinner at all. He has a perfect hatred of him, “I hate them with a perfect hatred.”(Ps. 139:22)
Why does God do so much good for those He perfectly hates and as soon as they die impenitent send them immediately to hell and never in all eternity does them one solitary favor more? It is to show His willingness to forgive the sinner if only he will repent. It shows the sincerity of God’s willingness to pardon the greatest sinner that, even while He hates him with a perfect hatred, He showers him with constant daily blessings.
As I mentioned in Chapter 1, there is no “problem of pain.” The only problem is the “problem of pleasure.” Dreadful as it is, it is not surprising that God sends sinners to hell. The problem is why He does not do it sooner. Why does God let a hell-deserving sinner live a minute and then let him prosper like the green bay tree (Ps.37:35),as well? It is obvious that God can destroy the ungrateful. Why doesn’t He? That is the problem.
Yes, the sinner suffers, too. But so little. It is a gentle reminder: though the sinner receives many divine favors, that does not mean that God is pleased with him. It is in spite of the fact that God hates him with a perfect hatred.
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness
and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the
kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Rom.2:4)
Our text also shows that the one reason a sinner is permitted to be born into and enjoy this world rather than wake up as an infant in hell is that God, with His love of benevolence, is determined to give the sinner a “chance,” an opportunity to repent. Alas, most sinners use it as a chance to sin! They make God’s blessed love of benevolence into a curse.
In this world the sinner enjoys nothing but the benevolent love of God. Every experience of pain as well as pleasure is from God’s love — of benevolence. Even pain is from love because it tends to wake the sinner to his danger. God indeed loves the sinner, whom He hates with a perfect hatred, with a perfect love of benevolence.
The sinner, as I said, makes every divine blessing into a curse including God’s love of benevolence. This he does by construing a love of benevolence as a love of complacency.
Construing God’s love of benevolence as a love of complacency is fatal. Instead of the divine forbearance leading to repentance, it is used as an excuse for non-repentance. Thus the sinner is not saved but damned by God’s love of benevolence.
God “loves” the sinner benevolently and hates the sinner displacently. If the sinner dies impenitent, God removes His love of benevolence and pours out the full wrath of his displacent love.
As far as “hatred of sins” is concerned, sins do not exist apart from the sinner. God does hate sinning, killing, stealing, lying, lusting, etc., but this alludes to the perpetrator of these crimes.
God never hates the redeemed even when they sin. Is He an unfair respecter of persons? No! (Act. 10:34) God hates the unredeemed sinner but loves the redeemed even when they sin for a good and just reason. God loves the redeemed even when they sin because His Son, in whom God is always well-pleased, ever lives to make intercession for them. (Rom.8:27, 34) Christ died to atone for the guilt of His people’s sins. When they sin, these are atoned-for sins. They are sins with their guilt removed. In one sense, they are not sins at all. God does not hate His people when they sin because they are in His Son, Christ Jesus. And they are made acceptable in His Son. He “has made us accepted in the Beloved.”(Eph. 1:6)
Divine nepotism? No, His Son died for these people and paid the price for their sins past, present, and future. They are cancelled before they are committed. That is truth, not fiction. Righteousness, not nepotistic favoritism. In fact, it is not their original relationship to Christ which makes their sins guiltless, but Christ’s making satisfaction for their sins that created the relationship as children adopted into the family of God.
God, in hot displeasure, chastens His people when they sin (Ps.6: 1; 38:1). It is not hatred but complacent love in Christ Jesus. “Whom the Lord loves He chastens.” (Heb. 12:6,7) God loves His people even when He afflicts them and hates the impenitent even when He befriends them.
Why the chastening when there is love? God blessed the wicked when there was holy hatred. Now He chastens His people when there is holy love. This is because true moral behavior must be perfected. No sin can be tolerated in those for whom Christ died. He died to purchase a “peculiar people zealous of good works.”(Titus 2:14) Being redeemed, so far from tolerating their sinning, precludes it. Anyone who persists in sinning proves thereby that he is not a child of God. God punishes His own especially because they are His children. “You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth: Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.”(Amos 3:2)
“Upright” man was promised and warned. A holy, just, and perfect God would promise and warn. Eternal life — if obedient. Instant death — the moment of disobedience. (Gen.3:5; Ecc.7:29)
When man sinned, he died spiritually and was rejected from communion with God his maker and friend. (Gen.3; Rom. 5:12ff) The wrath of God was upon him; labor was his lot; suffering in childbirth; alienation and death, as threatened. God is holy; of purer eyes than to behold iniquity. (Hab. 1:13)
Yet mortal man “lived” on (though to live in pleasure is death, 1 Tim. 5:6), and so did promise. When the angels sinned they perished without delay, without promise, without hope.
Man’s fate was better and worse than the fallen angels’ lot. It was a day of possible salvation but also of possible greater damnation, greater damnation for sinning away the day of possible salvation. God in His wrath; God in His mercy; at the same time.
This was a terrible but holy wrath. God was using His omnipotent power but according to His perfect justice. Man was affected but he deserved it. It was no more, no less, than he deserved. God is no more powerful than holy; no more holy than powerful.
As man continued to sin, God continued to increase His fury. His wrath is in no hurry. The record is kept, all accounts receivable. Every idle word will be brought into judgment (Matt. 12:36). The cup of iniquity must be filled. Then wrath to the uttermost. (1 Thess. 2:16) God’s glory shines in the perfection of His work.
But — God decreed the sin, (Prov. 16:4). Yes, for good and for glory. Man did it for evil and for shame.
A little sin and infinite wrath? A little sin against an infinite God is infinite. Wrath is in perfect proportion to the guilt. But even if the punishment were finite it would go in “infinitely,” unendingly, because the sinner continues to sin in resenting it.
All glory to God for His holy anger. (John 17:3; Rom.9:17f)

Dr John Gerstner, used with permission.
 
Is a necessary repentance consistent with “God loves the sinner?” If God loves the sinner while he is alive, it is strange that God sends him to hell as soon as he dies. God loves the sinner to death?
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
The late Calvinist theologian John Gerstner is looking at this question through Calvinistic glasses. Of course God loves the sinner – He loves the sinner so much that He sent His one and only Son to die for the sinner (you and me) while the sinner was yet in his sins.

God calls the sinner via the gospel of grace to “repent or perish” because God 'wishes none to perish'. The gospel call is open to “whosoever will”. Faith comes by hearing the word of God and the one who chooses via freewill to believe that Jesus is the Christ and repent, obeying the gospel of Christ "from the heart" will be saved by the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ.

The choice has always been repent or perish - the choice is ours.
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
(Luk 13:3 ESV)

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
(2Pe 3:9 ESV)
 
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I can just see God lovingly dropping people into the pit of hell.
 
I can just see God lovingly dropping people into the pit of hell.

Can you see a loving God saying, repent or perish? Can you see a just God saying, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness'?
 
Can you see a loving God saying, repent or perish? Can you see a just God saying, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness'?
'I never loved you depart from me. ':biglol ( notice the declaration come from the Lord, 'I never loved you' ... )

7 Until I came into the [r]sanctuary of God;
Then I perceived their end.
18 Surely You set them in slippery places;
You cast them down to [s]destruction.
19 How they are [t]destroyed in a moment!
They are utterly swept away by sudden terrors!


Who is the destroyer? Who sets then up to fall?
 
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“Repent or Perish†forces people to ponder seriously the popular slogan, “God hates the sin and loves the sinner.â€



Is a necessary repentance consistent with “God loves the sinner?†If God loves the sinner while he is alive, it is strange that God sends him to hell as soon as he dies. God loves the sinner to death? Loves him to everlasting torment?
There is something wrong here. Either God loves the sinner and will not send him into the furnace of His eternal wrath; or He sends him into His eternal wrath and does not love him. Either “you are going to hell unless†because God hates you, as you are. Or, God loves you and “you are going to hell unless†is false.
What leads almost everyone to believe that God loves the sinner is that God does the sinner so much good. He bestows so many favors including letting him continue to live. How can God let the sinner live and give him so many blessings, unless He loves him? There is a kind of love between God and sinners. We call it the “love of benevolence.†That means the love of good will. Benevolens — willing well. Doing well. God can do well to the sinner without loving him with the other kind of love. “Complacent love,†a pleasure in, affection for, admiration of. It exists in perfection between the Father and the Son, “in whom I am well pleasedâ€(Matt.3:17; Mk.1:11).
God is perfectly displeased with the sinner. The sinner hates God, disobeys God, is ungrateful to God for all His favors, would kill God if he could. He is dead in trespasses and sins. (Eph.2:1) “The thoughts and intents of his heart are only evil continually.†(Gen.6:5) He is the slave of sin (John 8:34), the servant of the devil, (Eph.2:2).
God has no complacent love for the sinner at all. He has a perfect hatred of him, “I hate them with a perfect hatred.â€(Ps. 139:22)
Why does God do so much good for those He perfectly hates and as soon as they die impenitent send them immediately to hell and never in all eternity does them one solitary favor more? It is to show His willingness to forgive the sinner if only he will repent. It shows the sincerity of God’s willingness to pardon the greatest sinner that, even while He hates him with a perfect hatred, He showers him with constant daily blessings.
As I mentioned in Chapter 1, there is no “problem of pain.†The only problem is the “problem of pleasure.†Dreadful as it is, it is not surprising that God sends sinners to hell. The problem is why He does not do it sooner. Why does God let a hell-deserving sinner live a minute and then let him prosper like the green bay tree (Ps.37:35),as well? It is obvious that God can destroy the ungrateful. Why doesn’t He? That is the problem.
Yes, the sinner suffers, too. But so little. It is a gentle reminder: though the sinner receives many divine favors, that does not mean that God is pleased with him. It is in spite of the fact that God hates him with a perfect hatred.
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness
and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the
kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Rom.2:4)
Our text also shows that the one reason a sinner is permitted to be born into and enjoy this world rather than wake up as an infant in hell is that God, with His love of benevolence, is determined to give the sinner a “chance,†an opportunity to repent. Alas, most sinners use it as a chance to sin! They make God’s blessed love of benevolence into a curse.
In this world the sinner enjoys nothing but the benevolent love of God. Every experience of pain as well as pleasure is from God’s love — of benevolence. Even pain is from love because it tends to wake the sinner to his danger. God indeed loves the sinner, whom He hates with a perfect hatred, with a perfect love of benevolence.
The sinner, as I said, makes every divine blessing into a curse including God’s love of benevolence. This he does by construing a love of benevolence as a love of complacency.
Construing God’s love of benevolence as a love of complacency is fatal. Instead of the divine forbearance leading to repentance, it is used as an excuse for non-repentance. Thus the sinner is not saved but damned by God’s love of benevolence.
God “loves†the sinner benevolently and hates the sinner displacently. If the sinner dies impenitent, God removes His love of benevolence and pours out the full wrath of his displacent love.
As far as “hatred of sins†is concerned, sins do not exist apart from the sinner. God does hate sinning, killing, stealing, lying, lusting, etc., but this alludes to the perpetrator of these crimes.
God never hates the redeemed even when they sin. Is He an unfair respecter of persons? No! (Act. 10:34) God hates the unredeemed sinner but loves the redeemed even when they sin for a good and just reason. God loves the redeemed even when they sin because His Son, in whom God is always well-pleased, ever lives to make intercession for them. (Rom.8:27, 34) Christ died to atone for the guilt of His people’s sins. When they sin, these are atoned-for sins. They are sins with their guilt removed. In one sense, they are not sins at all. God does not hate His people when they sin because they are in His Son, Christ Jesus. And they are made acceptable in His Son. He “has made us accepted in the Beloved.â€(Eph. 1:6)
Divine nepotism? No, His Son died for these people and paid the price for their sins past, present, and future. They are cancelled before they are committed. That is truth, not fiction. Righteousness, not nepotistic favoritism. In fact, it is not their original relationship to Christ which makes their sins guiltless, but Christ’s making satisfaction for their sins that created the relationship as children adopted into the family of God.
God, in hot displeasure, chastens His people when they sin (Ps.6: 1; 38:1). It is not hatred but complacent love in Christ Jesus. “Whom the Lord loves He chastens.†(Heb. 12:6,7) God loves His people even when He afflicts them and hates the impenitent even when He befriends them.
Why the chastening when there is love? God blessed the wicked when there was holy hatred. Now He chastens His people when there is holy love. This is because true moral behavior must be perfected. No sin can be tolerated in those for whom Christ died. He died to purchase a “peculiar people zealous of good works.â€(Titus 2:14) Being redeemed, so far from tolerating their sinning, precludes it. Anyone who persists in sinning proves thereby that he is not a child of God. God punishes His own especially because they are His children. “You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth: Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.â€(Amos 3:2)
“Upright†man was promised and warned. A holy, just, and perfect God would promise and warn. Eternal life — if obedient. Instant death — the moment of disobedience. (Gen.3:5; Ecc.7:29)
When man sinned, he died spiritually and was rejected from communion with God his maker and friend. (Gen.3; Rom. 5:12ff) The wrath of God was upon him; labor was his lot; suffering in childbirth; alienation and death, as threatened. God is holy; of purer eyes than to behold iniquity. (Hab. 1:13)
Yet mortal man “lived†on (though to live in pleasure is death, 1 Tim. 5:6), and so did promise. When the angels sinned they perished without delay, without promise, without hope.
Man’s fate was better and worse than the fallen angels’ lot. It was a day of possible salvation but also of possible greater damnation, greater damnation for sinning away the day of possible salvation. God in His wrath; God in His mercy; at the same time.
This was a terrible but holy wrath. God was using His omnipotent power but according to His perfect justice. Man was affected but he deserved it. It was no more, no less, than he deserved. God is no more powerful than holy; no more holy than powerful.
As man continued to sin, God continued to increase His fury. His wrath is in no hurry. The record is kept, all accounts receivable. Every idle word will be brought into judgment (Matt. 12:36). The cup of iniquity must be filled. Then wrath to the uttermost. (1 Thess. 2:16) God’s glory shines in the perfection of His work.
But — God decreed the sin, (Prov. 16:4). Yes, for good and for glory. Man did it for evil and for shame.
A little sin and infinite wrath? A little sin against an infinite God is infinite. Wrath is in perfect proportion to the guilt. But even if the punishment were finite it would go in “infinitely,†unendingly, because the sinner continues to sin in resenting it.
All glory to God for His holy anger. (John 17:3; Rom.9:17f)

Dr John Gerstner, used with permission.

Many theologians believe we send ourselves to Hell. The choices we make are either turning us into the kind of creature who can enjoy Heaven or not. If not, then the only other place to go is Hell. This view would satisfy both sides of your argument. God loves the sinner so much He gives him the freedom to choose where he will spend eternity.
 
Lest see who lives who dies who's choice, fallen man or God? I'll go with God.
 
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'I never loved you depart from me. ':biglol ( notice the declaration come from the Lord, 'I never loved you' ... )
You appear to be missing the point once again. The word of God says...God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son while we were yet sinners. That's a strong love. What bible version do you use? The passage doesn't say, 'I never loved you depart from me' - the passage says, "I never knew you; depart from Me..."
 
Lest see who lives who dies who's choice, fallen man or God? I'll go with God.

God has given fallen man the freedom to choose...
"...choose you this day whom ye will serve...as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." (Joshua 24:15)
 
The word of God says...God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son while we were yet sinners. That's a strong love.

  • God sooo.. loved the world (John 3:16) *
  • while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Rom 5:8) #

* Please read rest of the passage for "terms and conditions" of the product "God's Love".
# Note that "we" does not include you but those who are justified by faith as in Rom 5:1.

Lucifer Marketing Company said:
"God's love" can now be obtained from all supermarkets for a small fee of $1.50. People who think God does not love sinners are our biggest enemies for our "Christian" product of "God's love" who spread deceiving stories like "God requires everyone to repent", "People who don't believe God and ask for forgiveness will perish". These false stories must be stopped or else the spreading of the gospel of "God's Love" is in danger. Since our product of "God's Love" is "Unconditional", and Christ died for sinners already, there are no conditions attached to it. Hence, you no longer required to go to any church, pray, repent or even be good and you will be "automatically" forgiven. "God always loves you not matter what you do". Try to move around with all sinners and spread "God's Love". Make sure to ask our latest brand - Lucifer's "God's Love".

Did I miss something?
 
You appear to be missing the point once again. The word of God says...God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son while we were yet sinners. That's a strong love. What bible version do you use? The passage doesn't say, 'I never loved you depart from me' - the passage says, "I never knew you; depart from Me..."
LOL .
 
Did I miss something?
The boat.

Christ's death on the Cross was both efficacious and vicarious. The Bible clearly states that Jesus died for all; therefore, Jesus died for all. The dogma of ‘limited atonement’ is nowhere to be found in Holy Writ – Jesus is not a Calvinist.
Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Hebrews 9:26 NIV)
 
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The boat.

Christ's death on the Cross was both efficacious and vicarious. The Bible clearly states that Jesus died for all; therefore, Jesus died for all. The dogma of ‘limited atonement’ is nowhere to be found in Holy Writ – Jesus is not a Calvinist.
Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Hebrews 9:26 NIV)

According to you, if unbelievers had got this atonement, and their sins were washed already, why then do they need to even follow Christ? Why should gospel be preached to all nations? Why worry about heaven and hell? for all got this atonement and thus saved!

(Acts 10:43) "To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."
(John 3:18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

People who don't believe will not receive remission of sins and they are already condemned. it is true that atonement is made for all but only those who believe will receive it.
 
Maybe he'd like to use one of his lifelines? Will he ask the Audience? Is he smarter than a 6th grader? :lol
Barnes' Notes on the BibleProfess unto them - Say unto them; plainly declare.
I never knew you - That is, I never approved of your conduct; never loved you; never regarded you as my friends. See Psalm 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 Corinthians 8:3. This proves that, with all their pretensions, they had never been true followers of Christ. Jesus will not then say to false prophets and false professors of religion that he had once known them and then rejected them; that they had been once Christians and then had fallen away; that they had been pardoned and then had apostatized but that he had never known them - they had never been true christians. Whatever might have been their pretended joys, their raptures, their hopes, their self-confidence, their visions, their zeal, they had never been regarded by the Saviour as his true friends. I do not know of a more decided proof that Christians do not fall from grace than this text. It settles the question; and proves that whatever else such people had, they never had any true religion. See 1 John 2:19
 
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
(Mat 7:23 ESV)
"'I never knew you" means just that - 'I never knew you'...
Matthew 7:23
Will I profess - Ομολογησω, I will fully and plainly tell them, I never knew you - I never approved of you; for so the word is used in many places, both in the Old and New Testaments. ~ Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible​
The truth remains - "...God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life...
 
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Exo 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:


Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psa 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?


My point there is a balance to God. I believe the modern world thinks of God as a cuddly teddy bear. I dont believe He is.... Nor is He all damnation. Each of the verse above are as much scripture as the other.
 
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