Okay.. this could get dicey, proceed with caution

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

Few things I've been exposed to. I'm wondering if people here who are veterans in the faith compared to me, have heard of this.

That hell is not mentioned once in the bible, and words from greek mythology were translated into "hell" in the king james version. These words: Sheol, Gehenna and Hades, amongst a few others

This seems to be a real "gotcha" for seasoned atheists

 

[miamited]

Hi PrimFinallyFoundGod!

Well yes, and for those who would make such an argument, you can agree with them. That's right, the word 'hell' is not in the Scriptures. Neither are a lot of words, as we speak them in english, in the Scriptures. Then you can stop them and say, "But here's what is in the bible. Those who die without making peace with God will spend eternity being tormented." You can follow up saying, "Those who perish apart from the grace provided through God's Son, Jesus, will spend eternity in a place of suffering and gnashing of teeth in anquish. Now you can call that the United Airlines VIP lounge if you want to. The name doesn't have anything to do with the actuality of the life that one will live...separated from God's grace."

And yes, those words describing what life will be like for the lost...are in the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted

 

[jasonc]

Few things I've been exposed to. I'm wondering if people here who are veterans in the faith compared to me, have heard of this.

That hell is not mentioned once in the bible, and words from greek mythology were translated into "hell" in the king james version. These words: Sheol, Gehenna and Hades, amongst a few others

This seems to be a real "gotcha" for seasoned atheists

Well words gin himmon and Sheol .

Hades and gehennna are Greek for those .Hades is close to Sheol in how it's described.

 

[Free]

Few things I've been exposed to. I'm wondering if people here who are veterans in the faith compared to me, have heard of this.

That hell is not mentioned once in the bible, and words from greek mythology were translated into "hell" in the king james version. These words: Sheol, Gehenna and Hades, amongst a few others

This seems to be a real "gotcha" for seasoned atheists

I’m not sure why this would be a ‘real “gotcha” for seasoned atheists.’ What do they think it proves?

The Hebrew Sheol and Greek Hades both essentially mean the grave, and what is typically meant by hell would be the Greek word Gehenna. It’s is unfortunate that the KJV confused things by translating at least four different words as “hell.”

What really matters is that Jesus spoke of the final destination of unbelievers as a place so terrible, that one would be better to gouge out one’s eye or cut off one’s arm than go there. And that place he called Gehenna, which is likely the lake of fire mentioned in Revelation 20.

 

[Christian Saboteur]

The way I understand it is,Sheol currently exists as two compartments.One compartment for the righteous,and one for the unrighteous.The proverbial "Hell" isnt open yet.Is the proverbial Hell open during the 1000 year reign of Christ,or after,I can't remember the exact timeline.

 

[for_his_glory]

We have always been taught hell is a place where non-believers in God go to for eternity, but according to scripture this is not what hell is. Hell is described as the world of the dead, a place where the departed go that have died as being lowered in a grave/pit. There they are kept until the return of Christ to either stand in Gods Great White Throne judgment for those who are not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev 20:11-15, or those who have died in Christ that will stand in his judgment to give an account for the things done here on earth, 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Hell is not the lake of fire as God gives us a description of the lake of fire as in fire and brimstone which can be used literal as in Sodom and Gomorrah burned to ashes and as a metaphor for torment, suffering, punishment or as Matthew 8:12 describes it as outer darkness. The New Testament description is a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13), everlasting fire Matthew 25:41, everlasting punishment, Matthew 25:46, lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.
Greek # 5020. Tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Few things I've been exposed to. I'm wondering if people here who are veterans in the faith compared to me, have heard of this.

That hell is not mentioned once in the bible, and words from greek mythology were translated into "hell" in the king james version. These words: Sheol, Gehenna and Hades, amongst a few others

This seems to be a real "gotcha" for seasoned atheists

There is no place where people and wicked spirits suffer without end.

The lake of fire is the very Presence of God.

It's when our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ returns in Person to this planet. Better said, when King Jesus becomes visible to all mankind, because the fire from His Presence engulfs the universe as we know it.

People will be temporarily tormented by His brilliance because His Light will expose all unrepentant sin. This will cause embarrassment, anger etc, but that's the end of the unrepentant. They are turned into smoke.

Many it seems won't be prepared to Him, although he gave all time to prepare for this event.

Even Satan.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?.....He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly....He shall dwell on high Isa.33:14-16 KJV

No believer can be harmed by Gods' Presence,

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Rev.2:11

Keep in mind Jesus is speaking in a spiritual sense so it goes this way,

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: Rev.20:6.....Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection Jn.11:25
(So those who know our Lord are blessed.)

on such the second death hath no power Rev.20:6.....For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29

but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, Rev.20:6.....But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood 1Pet.2:9

So believers are royal priests now

and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev.20:6.....be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2Pet.3:8

So it has always been this way from the beginning.

 

[Tenchi]

Few things I've been exposed to. I'm wondering if people here who are veterans in the faith compared to me, have heard of this.

That hell is not mentioned once in the bible, and words from greek mythology were translated into "hell" in the king james version. These words: Sheol, Gehenna and Hades, amongst a few others

This seems to be a real "gotcha" for seasoned atheists

Hell is perhaps the one doctrine above all others with which the wicked contend most fiercely and want most desperately to dissolve. Nothing helps the sinner in their sin more than for them to think that they can "get away with it." Anyway, though the term "hell" refers to various things in Scripture (the grave, interim waiting place of the souls of the dead, the Pit, etc.) there is a place described repeatedly in Scripture of eternal, conscious torment where the unrepentant wicked are forever separated from God (and everyone else).

Matthew 13:41-42
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them who do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:43
43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

Mark 9:45
45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.

Mark 9:47-49
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,
48 ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’
49 For everyone will be salted with fire.

Luke 16:22-24
22 ...the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.

Revelation 21:8
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And so on. Whatever term one wants to use, the place commonly called "hell" is definitely described and referred to in the Bible.

Is the idea of hell actually derived from pagan Greek mythology? What compelling reasons - not mere speculation - can be offered to ground this claim? None that I've ever seen. It's just a largely groundless challenge non-believers throw out to destabilize the weak Christian.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other word would smell as sweet.” from "Romeo and Juliet" by William Shakespeare

People use hell because it is less scary than calling the place outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Hell is also less scary than how The Revelation puts it; being cast into the lake of fire.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Who Me]

That hell is not mentioned once in the bible, and words from greek mythology were translated into "hell" in the king james version. These words: Sheol, Gehenna and Hades, amongst a few others

Yet another view on your post.

Another of interaction between Christian and non-Christian is not about the words or subject but about tactics.

So someone says there is no word ' he'll ' in the bible.
Don't jump to investigate or justify what you believe, ask them what difference does that make to their belief?
A follow up question is. As they dispute the existence of he'll does that mean they accept there is a God?

Turn the question always to how does it affect their belief.

Does the question bother you, that there is no word He'll in the bible, no it shouldn't its what those who understand the Greek, aromatic and Hebrew have translated it so you'll accept it.

 

[WIP]

Few things I've been exposed to. I'm wondering if people here who are veterans in the faith compared to me, have heard of this.

That hell is not mentioned once in the bible, and words from greek mythology were translated into "hell" in the king james version. These words: Sheol, Gehenna and Hades, amongst a few others

This seems to be a real "gotcha" for seasoned atheists

The word "hell" does not have to be used in order to understand what is being talked about. When someone tells me it is raining outside, I do not have to inquire of them what type of rain for I know it is water.

You could start by asking yourself, "What does hell mean to me?" In other words, if I say I am experiencing a living hell, what would you understand I mean by that?

When I think of eternal hell, the first thing that comes to my mind is eternity without God. Simple as that for that would be hell.

What is heaven? When I think of heaven, the first thing that comes to my mind is living in the presence of God, my Creator, my Savior, my Redeemer, my everything.

Here are some things Scriptures say about heaven and hell.

I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:3-8 NKJV

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Few things I've been exposed to. I'm wondering if people here who are veterans in the faith compared to me, have heard of this.

That hell is not mentioned once in the bible, and words from greek mythology were translated into "hell" in the king james version. These words: Sheol, Gehenna and Hades, amongst a few others

This seems to be a real "gotcha" for seasoned atheists

Sheol literally means grave, that's where you go after death, whether you're saved or not. Hades is the Greek version of that, in Greek mythology, Hades is Zeus's brother in charge of the underworld. In essence, this is a depository of deceased people's souls waiting for their resurrection. After Jesus died on the cross, he personally went down to Sheol/Hades for at least two days to set the captive free. Gehenna means "valley of Hinnom", it's a real place near Jerusalem, in the ancient times Israelites sacrificed their own babies in that place to Moloch, at 1st century it was used as a garbage dump to burn trash, which includes corpses of animals and human. Gehenna is equivalent to our expression of "living hell", which could be a prison, a ghetto, or just an emotionally very distressed state. It's not meant to be a mythical place. Lake of Fire is the final destiny of unbelievers, they'll be judged and cast in there for eternity. You may google "lava lake" for an visual impression.

 

[Anaphora]

Luke chapter 16:23 . The Richman went to hell. In Greek means =hades, the grave. It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked until judgement day. Theirs Gulf that separates paradise and hell.

Go to Isaiah chapter 14:9. Again, hell is mentioned. In Hebrew means = sheol.

I gave it in both Greek and Hebrew.

It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked until judgement day.

Hell is mentioned several times in the bible.

Psalm chapter 6:5. For in death there is no remembrance of Thee: in the grave who shall give Thee thanks?

The dead in hell cant praise Jesus. Thier on wrong side of the gulf. Get the picture.
Isaiah 38:18 . For the grave cannot praise Thee, death can not celebrate Thee:
Sheol, hades and hell are the same.
The saint's are in paradise.
Wicked and spirtualty dead are in sheol or hell.

I hope this helps you.

 

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

I’m not sure why this would be a ‘real “gotcha” for seasoned atheists.’ What do they think it proves?

The Hebrew Sheol and Greek Hades both essentially mean the grave, and what is typically meant by hell would be the Greek word Gehenna. It’s is unfortunate that the KJV confused things by translating at least four different words as “hell.”

What really matters is that Jesus spoke of the final destination of unbelievers as a place so terrible, that one would be better to gouge out one’s eye or cut off one’s arm than go there. And that place he called Gehenna, which is likely the lake of fire mentioned in Revelation 20.

They are using this to say that what Christians are preaching is wrong and we "dont understand our bibles". This is what I meant. I also didn't mean it literally is a gotcha. I mean, they think so

 

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

Thanks for the helpful answers. I'm a 21 year old who has been Christian for less than a year. When I hear about things from either other Christians or people of other beliefs I of course will investigate as I want to learn. As opposed to pleasing man by following what they say without question, the only thing I care about is "getting it right" and honouring our creator, as I've expressed many times in prayer. I am not trying to walk by flesh, but by conviction of the holy spirit.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Cs Lewis writes about good dreams given to pagans that preceded and often overlapped with Christian concepts. Mystery cults are one example. Roughly around the time of Christ some pagans were into religion as a way of being born again in a pagan often mystical sense. Some cults worshipped deities who changed and their transformations were sort of inspiration for their followers. Persephone for instance is the frolicking daughter of Demeter the earth goddess. Kidnapped by hades into the underworld she is also Kore the goddess of black magic.
The concepts if din forgiveness redemption rebirth and eternal salvation were developed in some forms of paganism before Christ but the answer to humanity’s problems did not exist until Jesus Christ was resurrected and ascended into heaven. Good dreams and good ideas given to some pagans are interesting from an historical perspective but they do not disprove any Christian doctrines or beliefs.

 

[eddif]

Thanks for the helpful answers. I'm a 21 year old who has been Christian for less than a year. When I hear about things from either other Christians or people of other beliefs I of course will investigate as I want to learn. As opposed to pleasing man by following what they say without question, the only thing I care about is "getting it right" and honouring our creator, as I've expressed many times in prayer. I am not trying to walk by flesh, but by conviction of the holy spirit.

PrimFinallyFoundGod!
Since you are looking for truth, and mentioned the Creator.
Romans 1:18-21 kjv
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness ;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed itunto them.
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Since the creator made a lake of fire (hell?) , and he made us in his image. Have you looked into human body symbolism.?

The immune system fights sickness (sin?).
The kidneys filter blood waste.
etc

Where is hell (as a type and shadow)?

If you are not ready to look into creation to see the Godhead, just ignore this post till later.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[JLB]

That's right, the word 'hell' is not in the Scriptures.

What ?

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48


Why would counsel people to agree with the lie of an unbelieving person.


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8



But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22




JLB

 

[miamited]

Hi JLB,

Well, you probably believe that Jesus spoke English as he traveled across Israel. But he didn't. The word that you read in your quote is not the word hell in the Mss. It is the word Gehenna. So, very plainly, the Mss that we have, not a one of them has the word 'hell' in them. But hey, it's ok if you want to condemn me for my explanation to try and open up lines of communication to a non-believer by being precise about the word 'hell' that the unbeliever is questioning. The word literally is not in a single piece of Scripture... as it was written over the 1500 years of its being written.

But the description of what that existence will be like is made quite plain. I imagine it will be hell for those who find themselves there.

God bless,
Ted