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On The Image of God (w/ Stove Bolts)

jeremiah1five

jeremiah1five

 
Member

QUOTE: Stove Bolts
How about we start with Genesis 1:26
From there, we can move to Genesis 1:27
After that, I feel Genesis 2:7 could be discussed.
We may need to lay the groundwork of why there are two accounts....
From there, we can explore other texts.

When scripture says "our image", how do you understand that? What , and / or - who's image?

RESPONSE:
Genesis 1:26 (KJV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:27 (KJV)
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

I understand "our image" as the new creation, the new man in Christ ("anointing" = spiritual - God is Spirit.)
I believe there is only One God, there is none like Him, and He gives His glory to none.

Isaiah 42:8 (KJV)
8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Isaiah 43:10 (KJV)
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God created the heaven and the earth. And from this created matter God form a man from the dust of the ground. "Formed" in this verse is the same word in Isa. 43:10. If the soul is comprised of intellect, mind, emotions, senses, conscience, and will, then what God created was only a shell - dead. This "dead body" was sown as it were and as I find in 1 Cor. 15:42.

1 Corinthians 15:42 (KJV)
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Here, the word "also" connects what Paul said prior to each star different in glory from another, etc., yet in this glory, there is no life. A painted picture is dead and it is beautiful, has a 'glory' but it is dead. The resurrection is not "sown" [planted/made] in corruption, the body is. From here, as I've seen God do, to understand the beginning He takes us to the end. He also describes the difference between the first man (Adam) and the last Adam (Christ).

1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

One is alive, the other gives life.

From this clay of the ground God breathed the breath of life into the nostrils of this clay 'figurine' and man became a living soul (not possessed, a living soul, became a living soul.) It doesn't say man became a living body, but soul. The soul is inanimate. It has been translated in the KJV as "soul" and "spirit," and both are adequate. From here I hold that God created Adam trichotomy, or three-part (body, soul, human spirit.)

1 Corinthians 15:47 (KJV)
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The image of God, in my mind, would have to be spiritual as God is Spirit, so too, is the definition of "Christ/Messiah" which means "anointed." I prefer to see that along with the life-giving "force" of God in bringing animation to the clay that God breathed into the man's loins all those 'souls' of names in the book of life of the lamb slain...that God had deposited into the man's loins all those who are named, those 'souls' that God would on their appointed day be born a natural body and on the appointed day be birthed a spiritual life.

Hebrews 1:3 (KJV)
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The image of God is not a 'natural' conformity but a spiritual one. The image of God is not Adam, but Christ. There is no better image of a Father than a Son.

And the continuation of this conformity is that we are being made in the image of Christ. Predestined, actually.

Romans 8:29 (KJV)
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I'll stop here. I have never been asked to present a 'comprehensive' presentation of my holding on this subject. To date, I believe the Lord is teaching me a great many things and it is pretty much an 'on the job' education. Learn by trial and error, but the only error I had was what I brought into my new life in Christ by way of understanding, and the errors I was taught from the pulpit despite my pastors also holding error in their belief-systems, but once I learned to read and study on my own I began to see things in Scripture that contradicted what the Church overall had held - even through the centuries - and I was faced with a decision and position I never thought I'd be in: Believe what the Lord through His anointing was showing me in His Word, or believe what is being taught from the pulpit?
I think you know the answer to that.
 
Elohim is plural of Eloh...why?
Man (singular) is made in Elohim's(plural) image...
Not one but plural...

Man was made... created like all the rest of creation but there's a big difference. God spoke the rest of creation into being...but man was formed by God's hands and breathed into to give life. (A much more personal and intimate act)
Not just to give glory to God but to reflect God's very nature.
 
JohnDB said:
Elohim is plural of Eloh...why?
Man (singular) is made in Elohim's(plural) image...
Not one but plural...

Man was made... created like all the rest of creation but there's a big difference. God spoke the rest of creation into being...but man was formed by God's hands and breathed into to give life. (A much more personal and intimate act)
Not just to give glory to God but to reflect God's very nature.
Click to expand...
I receive that the image of God is trichotomy as man was in his creation: body, soul, human spirit.
The very nature of God is not dirt.
Man/Adam was created sin-ful, or "missing the mark."
What is the "mark?"
The glory of God (or the glory that is God.)
There is only One God. Man was not created possessing any Deific Attributes of God i.e. sinlessness, holy, etc.
If man possessed any one Deific Attribute of God he would by necessity have to possess ALL Deific Attributes of God else he would fall short of God's glory.
Only two Persons can stand before a Holy God and that is a Holy Son and Holy Spirit.
There is only One God.
 
jeremiah1five said:
I receive that the image of God is trichotomy as man was in his creation: body, soul, human spirit.
The very nature of God is not dirt.
Man/Adam was created sin-ful, or "missing the mark."
What is the "mark?"
The glory of God (or the glory that is God.)
There is only One God. Man was not created possessing any Deific Attributes of God i.e. sinlessness, holy, etc.
If man possessed any one Deific Attribute of God he would by necessity have to possess ALL Deific Attributes of God else he would fall short of God's glory.
Only two Persons can stand before a Holy God and that is a Holy Son and Holy Spirit.
There is only One God.
Click to expand...
Okay...
Time for you to take a breath here and try again. You are simply repeating your original position. You aren't discussing the topic by repeating yourself and trying to mislabel or misquote what I've stated.

I never said that man had the attributes of God. I said that man was made in the image of God to reflect God's very attributes. The same way a mirror doesn't have the attributes of an image but simply reflects it. And as such man was created with a magesty of his own above and beyond the rest of creation.

But the rest of creation isn't sinful. Man chose to sin...he is the only one to do so.
 
QUOTE: Okay...
Time for you to take a breath here and try again. You are simply repeating your original position. You aren't discussing the topic by repeating yourself and trying to mislabel or misquote what I've stated.
I never said that man had the attributes of God. I said that man was made in the image of God to reflect God's very attributes. The same way a mirror doesn't have the attributes of an image but simply reflects it. And as such man was created with a majesty of his own above and beyond the rest of creation.
But the rest of creation isn't sinful. Man chose to sin...he is the only one to do so.
RESPONSE: This is what you said....

"but man was formed by God's hands and breathed into to give life. (A much more personal and intimate act)
Not just to give glory to God but to reflect God's very nature."

The Nature of God is not dirt, nor 'glorified' dirt. Adam does not reflect the Dirt of God. Adam refects dirt. That's what he was created from.

1 Corinthians 15:46 (KJV)
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Natural. Dirt.

1 Corinthians 15:47 (KJV)
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

God is not earthy. Nor is Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:48 (KJV)
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

My physical, natural, self bears the image of Adam. My spiritual man inside bears the image of Christ who bears the image of God.

Christ is Majestic, not Adam. Christ is....well, read on:

Psalm 8:4-9 (KJV)
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

Does man really have dominion over the fowl of the air and the fish?

Can man make a large school of fish gather at the right side of a boat for our own purpose?

John 21:6 (KJV)
6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.

Or is this dominion of Psalms 8:6 only mean we can catch them with the right bait? Or cause a certain behavior with the right repellant?

WHO REALLY WAS crowned him with glory and honour and made him to have dominion over the works of thy [God's] hands; and has put all [things] under his feet?

The word "things" is added by the translators. It reads "put all under His feet."

IF man chose to sin then sin is in the act and this destroys the Doctrine of Imputation which is a nature-swap, not an act-swap.

ALL creation is sinful. The law of entropy states that everything is dying and I cannot believe that because of man's sin God punishes the creation - or the animals. They die. They did not sin. Death is the penalty for sin.
Poor animals. My dog dies because of me.
Adam sinned because he was created a sinner. He is not a sinner because he sinned.

There is ONLY ONE God.
 
jeremiah1five said:
QUOTE: Okay...
Time for you to take a breath here and try again. You are simply repeating your original position. You aren't discussing the topic by repeating yourself and trying to mislabel or misquote what I've stated.
I never said that man had the attributes of God. I said that man was made in the image of God to reflect God's very attributes. The same way a mirror doesn't have the attributes of an image but simply reflects it. And as such man was created with a majesty of his own above and beyond the rest of creation.
But the rest of creation isn't sinful. Man chose to sin...he is the only one to do so.
RESPONSE: This is what you said....

"but man was formed by God's hands and breathed into to give life. (A much more personal and intimate act)
Not just to give glory to God but to reflect God's very nature."

The Nature of God is not dirt, nor 'glorified' dirt. Adam does not reflect the Dirt of God. Adam refects dirt. That's what he was created from.

1 Corinthians 15:46 (KJV)
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Natural. Dirt.

1 Corinthians 15:47 (KJV)
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

God is not earthy. Nor is Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:48 (KJV)
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

My physical, natural, self bears the image of Adam. My spiritual man inside bears the image of Christ who bears the image of God.

Christ is Majestic, not Adam. Christ is....well, read on:

Psalm 8:4-9 (KJV)
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

Does man really have dominion over the fowl of the air and the fish?

Can man make a large school of fish gather at the right side of a boat for our own purpose?

John 21:6 (KJV)
6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.

Or is this dominion of Psalms 8:6 only mean we can catch them with the right bait? Or cause a certain behavior with the right repellant?

WHO REALLY WAS crowned him with glory and honour and made him to have dominion over the works of thy [God's] hands; and has put all [things] under his feet?

The word "things" is added by the translators. It reads "put all under His feet."

IF man chose to sin then sin is in the act and this destroys the Doctrine of Imputation which is a nature-swap, not an act-swap.

ALL creation is sinful. The law of entropy states that everything is dying and I cannot believe that because of man's sin God punishes the creation - or the animals. They die. They did not sin. Death is the penalty for sin.
Poor animals. My dog dies because of me.
Adam sinned because he was created a sinner. He is not a sinner because he sinned.

There is ONLY ONE God.
Click to expand...

That's fine for you to believe...but most of us don't and won't.

Man was created perfect but since the consumption and internalizing the sinful fruit man has been inherently sinful ever since. (God cannot create error)

Man is not dirt...just like women aren't ribs. When God breathed life/Spirit into man he became more than an animal.

Now for the difference...
The Earth is cursed because of Adam and you and I. The Earth is holy BUT it does not have the capability of forgiveness...like God will (when asked) and man might.
No need to ask the Earth for forgiveness...it's a futility and ridiculous notion. But it's doomed to destruction because of this lack. Mankind that reflects God's nature by extending grace and forgiveness (because that was a major lesson Jesus taught as elements of love) will inherit eternal life.
 
Man would have died eventually had he not eaten from the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil.
He was not eternal. This is a Deific Attribute. So, if Adam was created holy or sinless he would have still fallen short of the glory of God because of this lack.

There is ONLY ONE GOD.

Your position defends there are TWO God's.
 
jeremiah1five said:
Man would have died eventually had he not eaten from the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil.
He was not eternal. This is a Deific Attribute. So, if Adam was created holy or sinless he would have still fallen short of the glory of God because of this lack.

There is ONLY ONE GOD.

Your position defends there are TWO God's.
Click to expand...
No...
Again you are maligning me and what I've said.

Please stop.

You have mislabeled and misrepresented what we believe and have magligned our character in doing so.

As we have said before...

We are a community of believers here for fellowship...
By false accusations you are creating an uphill battle to create any friendships here. (Which is our primary goal)
And by false accusations you are giving Christians a bad name.

Start over...you are doing it wrong.

We aren't here for debate. We are here for love...and you are way behind at any expression of it.
 
Last edited:
JohnDB said:
No...
Again you are maligning me and what I've said.

Please stop.

You have mislabeled and misrepresented what we believe and have magligned our character in doing so.

As we have said before...

We are a community of believers here for fellowship...
By false accusations you are creating an uphill battle to create any friendships here. (Which is our primary goal)
And by false accusations you are giving Christians a bad name.

Start over...you are doing it wrong.

We aren't here for debate. We are here for love...and you are way behind at any expression of it.
Click to expand...
If I am wrong say so, but you are saying that Adam was created with God's Nature.
Yea or nay?
Any friendships I have here or elsewhere will be based on our seeing the same Jesus and saying the same thing as God.
In other words, it will be because we hold to the Word of Truth and not leaning on our own understanding in the vanity of our mind. I don't want friendship with those that ignore the Word of God for their own understanding.

Tell me...Did God create man/Adam and gave or mirrored His nature into the creature (man)?

If you say yes, we can't discuss. I've provided sound Word and reasonable understanding backed by Scripture.

Now what?
 
jeremiah1five said:
If I am wrong say so, but you are saying that Adam was created with God's Nature.
Yea or nay?
Any friendships I have here or elsewhere will be based on our seeing the same Jesus and saying the same thing as God.
In other words, it will be because we hold to the Word of Truth and not leaning on our own understanding in the vanity of our mind. I don't want friendship with those that ignore the Word of God for their own understanding.

Tell me...Did God create man/Adam and gave or mirrored His nature into the creature (man)?

If you say yes, we can't discuss. I've provided sound Word and reasonable understanding backed by Scripture.

Now what?
Click to expand...

So now not only do you insult me more but also actively ask me to violate the rules?
Do you not understand the rules whatsoever or the purpose of this site?

We are here for COMMUNITY...not worthless arguments where people are encouraged to insult each other.
 
jeremiah1five,
Like JohnDB said, were not here to debate and if your going to hold that those who dont follow your words and your understanding of scrioture as unworthy for your fellowship, then my response is simply this. Your time on this forum will be cut short.

Now that that's out of th he way, I still do not comprehend how you view verses 26 and 27.
Can you start over, only slower. Below is the question I am trying to get answered.

Within the context of creation, who is "our" image referring to? Humanity was created both spiritual and physical and the two, at least in my understanding cannot be seperated.

Your long reply confused me.
 
I hold to the Scripture, Stove. Adam was not created spiritual as Paul says:

1 Corinthians 15:46-50 (KJV)
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
 
JohnDB said:
So now not only do you insult me more but also actively ask me to violate the rules?
Do you not understand the rules whatsoever or the purpose of this site?

We are here for COMMUNITY...not worthless arguments where people are encouraged to insult each other.
Click to expand...
I understand the Scripture. If the Scripture insults you then that's between you and God, not me.
 
jeremiah1five said:
I hold to the Scripture, Stove. Adam was not created spiritual as Paul says:

1 Corinthians 15:46-50 (KJV)
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Click to expand...
Yes. I agree with Paul. Adam was "earthly", but for me, that doesnt explain the "our image" fully in verses 26.

When I read the creation account, I see God creating by empowering His creation. For example, God creates the beasts of the field by empowering the earth to bring them forth. We see this with most of creation.

But when it comes to humanity, God doesnt just empower the ground to bring forth humanity. Instead, he co-creates with the earth and God forms Adam from His creation. But what really stands out for me is God then breathes into humanity, and instead of simply being souls, they are " living souls" and I find significance in this.

For example, John uses this same language to describes Jesus the giving of the Holy Spirit in John 20:22.

How do you understand Ecc 12:7

English Standard Version
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

I understand this that humanity was created eternal, with Gods divine spark into every human being. God co-created humanity with his created earth and infused His spirit into every person who is, was or ever will be.
 
JohnDB said:
So now not only do you insult me more but also actively ask me to violate the rules?
Do you not understand the rules whatsoever or the purpose of this site?

We are here for COMMUNITY...not worthless arguments where people are encouraged to insult each other.
Click to expand...
As Christians who obey their LORD we are instructed and commanded in the following:

Matthew 18:15 (KJV)
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

If you are Christian you are under this instruction and command.

You say I insulted you? However as retaliation, you threaten me. You threaten punitive action against me even to threaten my excommunication in violation of the LORD (vs. 17), but you haven't even invoked Matthew 18:15.

But the LORD will not exact accountability from His people if they DON'T KNOW the instruction. So, let me assist you.

If I have insulted you you must as believer let me know in which/what way I've insulted you. You must be specific in pointing out what I did that was an insult. Being that you are not following the LORD'S instruction and command we will do it here and in this way (openly). There is no such thing in Biblical Christianity of "blanket apologies," which means a Christian says "You insulted me" and then I say "Sorry" without knowing what I did specifically, meaning we must know specifically what one did that offended them so that such a thing not be repeated, and if it is not repeated then it can be said one has repented (but there is a period of time involved), and the result the LORD wants is restoration and strengthening of the Body of Christ.

So, what did I say that was an insult? Please be specific. And one more thing, the offense must be found in the Law of God/Moses. If your feelings were hurt this does not apply.
As for your threatening me, I am not offended. If you carried out your threat in disobedience to the Word of God, then you would have offended me and Christ in me.
 
StoveBolts said:
Yes. I agree with Paul. Adam was "earthly", but for me, that doesnt explain the "our image" fully in verses 26.

When I read the creation account, I see God creating by empowering His creation. For example, God creates the beasts of the field by empowering the earth to bring them forth. We see this with most of creation.

But when it comes to humanity, God doesnt just empower the ground to bring forth humanity. Instead, he co-creates with the earth and God forms Adam from His creation. But what really stands out for me is God then breathes into humanity, and instead of simply being souls, they are " living souls" and I find significance in this.

For example, John uses this same language to describes Jesus the giving of the Holy Spirit in John 20:22.

How do you understand Ecc 12:7

English Standard Version
and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

I understand this that humanity was created eternal, with Gods divine spark into every human being. God co-created humanity with his created earth and infused His spirit into every person who is, was or ever will be.
Click to expand...
I don't see God 'empowering the earth,' rather, the earth was empowered by God and there's a difference.

When God formed the man from the dust of the ground the man was lifeless, just dead. Scripture says man 'became a living soul." However, the first man was created body, soul, and human spirit (not the Holy Spirit. There's is no atonement so the Holy Spirit is not 'in him' as it were.) The human spirit is what allows born-again believers to experience and process spiritual phenomenon and allows communication with God. The 'part' of Adam that died when he disobeyed was the human spirit. But after sacrifice, God created anew a human spirit for Adam. In this, the image of God is restored: Father, Son, Holy Spirit, body, soul, and human spirit. Trichotomy/triunity. Also, the human spirit could not be passed to Adam's children and so every human - even us are born dichotomy, that is, body and soul - no human spirit. Man has no authority nor access to the spirit realm as Christ rules the spirit realm. This is why it was said to cast both body and soul into 'hell.' there are no three-part (body, soul, and created anew human spirit) -persons in 'hell.'

John 20:22 (KJV)
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

The Holy Ghost came in Acts 2. This is only the command of releasing the Holy Spirit to His people as Promised and that takes place in Acts 2. Jesus did not give them the Holy Spirit as He said that He cannot send the Holy Spirit to us unless He leaves. He didn't leave until later, and at the same time, the eleven disciples received the Promise.
Peter said about what others were witnessing with the tongues of fire and the tongues themselves:

Acts 2:16 (KJV)
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel...

QUOTE: "How do you understand Ecc 12:7"
RESPONSE: This is the animating breath of life, not the soul, not the human spirit, not the Holy Spirit.

QUOTE: "I understand this that humanity was created eternal, with Gods divine spark into every human being. God co-created humanity with his created earth and infused His spirit into every person who is, was or ever will be."
RESPONSE: This is not a spark, but an emanating. Back in the 80s I saw a documentary of scientists hooking up to plants some kind of device that allowed them to see a 'light' or emanation surrounding plant-life. This is the same as is found when hooked up or measuring with this device the same emanation in humans. It was astounding.
 
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