Bible Study One God The Father

[Free]

you said
So why is Jesus referred to as the "King of kings and Lord of lords?"

I said
Look at the spelling. In the old testament when the Father carried both titles of God and LORD. The Father carried "LORD" in the new testament when the Father turned over the title to Jesus it is "Lord" and Jesus is "Lord" over lords. Cant you see how it works. When it uses "lords" its talking about people because it uses the little "l" when it talks about Jesus it uses the "Lord" when it talks about God it uses "LORD". Wake up.

Sure, but I've proven that in the NT "Lord" is used of both God and Jesus, which you haven't refuted. Not only that, the Septuagint uses the Greek word kurios for "LORD," which is what the NT uses for "Lord" whether it is speaking of the Father or of Jesus.

So, I'll ask again: If only Jesus is Lord, how come both he and the Father are referred to as the "King of kings and Lord of lords?"

I am awake, thanks.

 

[Squeakybro]

Confused

you said
So, I'll ask again: If only Jesus is Lord, how come both he and the Father are referred to as the "King of kings and Lord of lords?"

I said
You do seem to have a problem with understanding. Apparently you just cant grasp it. Let me try something simple. In the service one has generals and majors and privates. The general is the highest authority over the major and the private. The major is the higher than the private. To the private they are both superior to him. Not just one of them but both of them. We are the privates and God is the general and Jesus is the major. They are both OUR Lords. But one of them Lords is a higher Lord than the other. Look at God as the general, and Jesus as the major. But they are both OUR superiors.

 

[Free]

The only problem is, I have proven that the Bible states that both the Father and Jesus are "generals." There is no differentiation which is why the asme language is used of both. They are both referred to as the "King of kings and Lord of lords." The problem for you is that "King" and "Lord" are singular, so unless Jesus is also God, the Bible has a major contradiction. There can only be one King of kings and Lord of lords, which is God. So if Jesus is also the King of kings and Lord of lords, he is also God.

 

[Squeakybro]

?

You seem to be talking in riddles. I said they are both king of kings and Lord of lords. Your repeating what I said. And argueing with it at the same time. Do you know what guile means? Because you seem to be full of it.

 

[Free]

SB,

I said they are both king of kings and Lord of lords. Your repeating what I said. And argueing with it at the same time.

Let me make it clear for you: you are saying that both the Father and Jesus are King of kings and Lord of lords, but that Jesus is only Lord of the earth. I am saying that the Bible makes no such distinction and that Jesus and the Father are both King of kings and Lord of lords over everything. If not, then it goes back to my original argument that if Jesus is Lord over us, then according to you, the Father isn't.

 

[Squeakybro]

ok

you said
If not, then it goes back to my original argument that if Jesus is Lord over us, then according to you, the Father isn't.

I said
You have more understanding in your arrogance than you do in your intellect.

John 5:22
22 "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
(NKJ)

 

[serapha]

Well here is what the Word of God says. I dont know where you got yours. But I would think you could see the evidence. The word invisible. Jesus wasnt invisible. But we know that God the Father has always been invisible.


1 Tim 1:17
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
(NKJ)

1 Tim 1:17
17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
(KJV)

Hi there!

:angel:

John Gill terms it nicely...

immortal
or "incorruptible". Christ is the living God, and the living Redeemer; and though he died as man, he will die no more, but ever lives to make intercession for his people, and to reign over them, and protect them: who also may be said to be "invisible", who was so in his divine nature, till manifest in the flesh; and now in his human nature he is taken out of the sight of men, and is not to be beheld with bodily eyes by men on earth: and he is

~serapha~

 

[serapha]

ONLY ONE GOD THE FATHER-ONLY ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST
THE FATHER IS GOD-JESUS IS LORD
JESUS IS NOT GOD

Hi there!

:angel:

but Jesus said he was....


Re 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


~serapha~

 

[serapha]

Jesus was created by God the Father. Jesus was created a man, after Jesus proved Himself to God in obedience.

Hi there!


May I ask, who is "Jehovah"? Who is "Wisdom"? Who is the "Angel of the Lord"?

Jesus pre-existed as the Word, became the Living Word, and resurrected the Eternal Word.


~serapha~

 

[serapha]

Re: Titles

The word God and the word Lord are titles of authority. God is the highest title of authority over the universe. Lord is the hightest title of authority over the earth. In the old testament The Father carried both titles. But in the new testament God the Father turned over the title of Lord to Jesus.

Hi there!

:angel:


Just for your future reference, the following passages refer to God, not Christ.



Acts 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;


Ephesians 4:5-6
4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Acts 4:24
And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:


And here is "Christ" in the Old Testament as "Lord"

Deut 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:



Now, how many "Lords" are there....


one.

Eph 4:5-6, 1 Cor 8:6; Jude 4


Time for a "re-write"???


~serapha~

 

[serapha]

Re: Look

Do you know that someone who is deceived does NOT know they are deceived. Deceived means to believe something is right when it is actually wrong. Or to believe something is wrong when it is actually right. You cant know your deceived, if you knew you were deceived you wouldnt be deceived.

Hi there!

:angel:


I could agree more... Thanks goodness, the Lord gave me the Holy Spirit as the discerner of truth.... so with the leading of the Holy Spirit, I find that I am not deceived.

How about you?





~serapha~

 

[Squeakybro]

Holy Spirit

the Holy Spirit only quotes verses. So if your saying when you get a verse your not deceived your right.

 

[serapha]

Re: Holy Spirit

the Holy Spirit only quotes verses. So if your saying when you get a verse your not deceived your right.

How untrue....



The work of the Spirit in the Old Testament was different than the work of the Spirit in the New Testament. In the Old Testament, the Spirit would come onto a person for a specific purpose and for a specific time. The prophets were presenting the revelations from God and were guided by the Spirit. The writers of "the Scriptures" were inspired and guided by the Spirit of God.

How does the Holy Spirit only "quote verses" when in the Old Testement prior to the captivity, there was no "Old Testament"


me thinks you are in error.


~serapha~

 

[Squeakybro]

Holy Ghost

Well what we call the Holy Spirit now started out the Holy Ghost in the new testament. Take a look at a old King James bible. And there was no Holy Ghost in the old testament. There was a Holy Spirit in the old testament. So they are different.

 

[DM]

Question for Free.

Hi Free.

You were mentioning the "King of kings and Lord of lords" title referring to Christ and to God the Father.

I am curious what your take is on the passage in Daniel 2:37 where Nebuchadnezzar is referred to as "king of kings". (Albeit, not "lord of lords")

Daniel 2:37 "You, o king (Nebuchadnezzar), are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory.

How does that dovetail with passages where we see Jesus being "given" things by God also?

Examples to this would be:

Matthew 28:18 “And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, ‘All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth’.â€Â

Luke 1:32 “He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David;â€Â

Luke 10:22 “All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.†(Of note: It’s interesting that there’s no mention of a “Holy Spirit†who knows either the son or the Father in this verse.)

John 3:35 “The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.â€Â

John 5:22 “For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,â€Â

John 17:2 “even as You gave him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given him, he may give eternal life.â€Â

Philippians 2:9,10 “For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,â€Â

Just curious as to your thoughts on how it seems that God delegates authority to Jesus, as opposed to Jesus being in eternal possession of it anyway, as God.

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,
David Murphy

 

[Vice]

Hmm....what does God the Father have to say about Jesus? Let's take a look:

"But about the Son, he says,

"Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
Therefore, God, your God has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of Joy."

"He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands...."

Hebrews 1:8ff

I guess I might have to believe what God the Father says about Jesus over what you say, squeaky.

 

[Squeakybro]

vic

you said
I guess I might have to believe what God the Father says about Jesus over what you say, squeaky.

I said
Or you could try reading that in context. And start with verse 6
None of that aplies yet, but when God the Father "Again" brings Jesus back into the world He will be a God to us.

Heb 1:6
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
(NKJ)

 

[Vice]

Re: vic

I said
Or you could try reading that in context. And start with verse 6
None of that aplies yet, but when God the Father "Again" brings Jesus back into the world He will be a God to us.

Heb 1:6
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
(NKJ)

No, I think you are the one who needs to read it within its context.

"In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the EXACT REPRESENTATION of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word..."

Hebrews 1:1ff

 

[Free]

SB,

Heb 1:6
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."
(NKJ)

Isn't worship for God alone?

DM,

You were mentioning the "King of kings and Lord of lords" title referring to Christ and to God the Father.

I am curious what your take is on the passage in Daniel 2:37 where Nebuchadnezzar is referred to as "king of kings". (Albeit, not "lord of lords")

Daniel 2:37 "You, o king (Nebuchadnezzar), are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory.

How does that dovetail with passages where we see Jesus being "given" things by God also?

That's a good question. One thing to keep in mind is that terms used of Christ that are also used of men, take on a much more significant meaning - "Son of God," for example. The implications are much more serious when that term is used of Jesus than when it is used of men, as is evidenced by the texts. The rest of the post may more fully answer your question.

Just curious as to your thoughts on how it seems that God delegates authority to Jesus, as opposed to Jesus being in eternal possession of it anyway, as God.

Phil. 2:5-8 states that Jesus, although being in the form of God, emptied himself to become a man, being obedient unto death. This is part of the mystery of the Incarnation - Is it one nature in Christ, or two? Is Christ really fully God and fully man? If Jesus is God, then why doesn't he know certain things? Do we know or can we know?

All we can be really sure of is that Scripture says Jesus had divine nature, emptied himself, and that the Godhead dwelt in him when he took on human flesh. Some speak of Jesus and the Father in purely functional terms - the Son voluntarily subjected himself to the Father - which seems to make a lot of sense. But at the same time, just because he subjected himself to the Father, this doesn't mean that he isn't coequal or coeternal with the Father.

It's obviously a very complex issue when one takes into account all the Scriptures that speak of Christ (see Col. 1:15-17 for instance). Clear as mud? ;)

 

[Squeakybro]

Free

you said

Isn't worship for God alone?

I said
Your going to be very disappointed when you have to worship at my feet.
If you dont learn the truth about the Word that you have been perverting.
Rev 3:9
9 "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie-- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
(NKJ)