Bible Study One God The Father

[Free]

Bob,

The Holy Spirit as a person is conspicuously absent from Christ’s teaching in general. Of particular interest in this regard are His many statements about Himself and the Father, especially when He never makes similar statements about Himself and the Holy Spirit.

The purpose of Christ was to bring glory to the Father and teach the gospel. The purpose of the Holy Spirit is to bring glory to Christ. There really was no more need for Jesus to speak of the Holy Spirit then he did.

We should also consider that, in visions of God’s throne recorded in the Bible, although the Father and Christ are seen, the Holy Spirit is never seen

But isn't the Father spirit? This would mean that no one can see him, just as they couldn't see the Holy Spirit. When speaking of seeing the Father, it is most likely referring to the glory of the Father, not the Father himself.

Jesus is repeatedly mentioned as being at the right hand of God, but no one is mentioned as being at the Father’s left hand.

God's "right" and "left" hands are anthropomorphisms - giving something that isn't human, human charateristics so that it can be better understood. Also, the "right hand" person of a king or ruler was next in command to them; it is a place of honor and power.

Nowhere are three divine persons pictured together in the Scriptures.

Matt. 28:19. I am curious as to why Christ would say to baptize in the "name" of two persons and one non-person? How does a force share a name with two persons? There are also other passages which speak of all three.

Again, after a quick look at that site, that author uses poor reasoning and ignores essential Scriptures which prove them wrong. I am curious as to why you keep ignoring the points I made a couple of points back.

 

[Bob10]

The HS can be grieved - Eph. 4:30 (a power, or force, cannot be grieved).

Who's to say, with something as powerful as God's Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the invisible Power essence that comes from God the Father and the Son - Christ. It can be likened to electricity, flowing from the generator (God the Father) to the light bulb (Christ) and out into all who come within its light. The Holy Spirit of GOD can be in everyone at the same time..... (see Act 2:2-4, 33; 4:31; 5:32; 8:15-19; 11:15).

 

[Free]

Bob,

It can be likened to electricity,

If something is inanimate it cannot be grieved, even if it is of God. It doesn't matter how powerful - a large river cannot be grieved just because it is larger than a small creek. Only persons can be grieved and grieve, and perhaps some animals too.

Really, my point #1 is enough to all but annhilate the argument that the Holy Spirit is only a force, not a person. But all my points together (particularly 1,4,5,8,9,10, and 11), taken directly from Scripture, provide irrefutable evidence that the HS is a "person."

 

[bibleberean]

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

I see three distinct persons here.

Who wast there from the beginning?

Who was sent?

Who did the sending?

Surely the Father and the Holy Spirit sent the Son.

The Holy Spirit must be a person.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

The bible calls the Holy Spirit the comforter.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Is the comforter not called he?

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

A force cannot teach.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

This is not a force. He is a person.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Three persons. One God.

 

[Bob10]

Free,

The Scripture verses you give are excellent.

.....provide irrefutable evidence that the HS is a "person."

Here are some verses calling the Holy Spirit, it ---

Romans 8:16, for example, says: “The Spirit itself (not himself) beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.â€Â

Matthew 10:20- "For it is no you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father......."

1Peter 1:11 - "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand......"

 

[willow the wip]

here are some verses that say that the Holy Sprit is He

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The subordination within the Godhead:

Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father.

This is an internal relationship, and does not deny the deity of any person of the Godhead.

This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see: Luke 22:42; John 5:36; John 20:21; 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see: John 14:16; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7 and especially John 16:13-14.

The tasks of the individual members of the Godhead:

The Father is the ultimate source or cause of: 1) the universe
(1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11);

2) divine revelation (Revelation 1:1);

3) salvation (John 3:16-17);

4) Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10).The Father INITIATES all of these things. The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works:

1) the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17);

2) divine revelation (John 1:1; Matthew 11:27; John 16:12-15; Revelation 1:1); and

3) salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the cause. He is the means by whom the Father does the following works:

1) creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30);

2) divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21);

3) salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and 4) Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Free]

Bob,

Here are some verses calling the Holy Spirit, it ---

You are still missing the point. If the Holy Spirit speaks using a personal pronoun, "I," that automatically denotes personality. The rest of the Scriptures about the Holy must be interpreted in this light. The HS cannot be both an impersonal force and a person. From what I have studied so far, the pronoun used of the HS, "it," can also be translated "he" or "she." This is why context determines the exact meaning and translation.

So while "it" may be grammatically right in many cases, although not all, it is still correct, and even better, to translate "it" as "he" since the HS obviously has personality.

 

[Bob10]

So while "it" may be grammatically right in many cases.....

"he" or "him" may be only grammatically right, too.

Afterall, if the Holy Spirit is a third person, then "he" is the father of Jesus, because "he" apparently "impregnated" Mary (Matt 1: 18, 20; Luke 1:35).

"....for that which is CONCEIVED in her is OF THE HOLY SPIRIT" - Matt 1:20

 

[Squeakybro]

Boy eveyone sure got off on a tangent here.

 

[Bob10]

Squeakybro

Boy eveyone sure got off on a tangent here.

how many of us played the childhood game where someone whispers a sentence into the next person's ear, and they whisper what they heard into the next person's ear and so on down the line; ten people later, and it's a whole different message.

That analogy works for me when looking at the "evolution" of Christianity: it looks nothing like the Christianity when Jesus walked the Earth -- those forty days after his ressurrection.

Most Christians don't even keep the real Pentecost at the real biblical time set for Pentecost.

It came about a week after Jesus ascended - Acts 1.

Since we don't keep the real crucifiction date, Nisan 14, it throws the date of the real Pentecost way off.

 

[Squeakybro]

Good analogy, I've seen it on the web many times.

 

[Eve777]

If something is inanimate it cannot be grieved, even if it is of God. It doesn't matter how powerful - a large river cannot be grieved just because it is larger than a small creek. Only persons can be grieved and grieve, and perhaps some animals too.

We were made from the dust of the Earth. I think we can agree that all matters that are to be found in our body obviously originate from those elements that exist in nature. So can a river be grieved. Perhaps so..

I know Jesus said that rocks could cry out....

 

[Joeri]

in the beginning there was the word and the word was with god and the word was god.

 

[Squeakybro]

Pay close attention to that word "was". God is neither male nor female and we call Him a He. The Holy Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a He. He is a spiritual title of authority. The Word of God carries that same title of authority.

John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
(NKJ)

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

He the Word of God(verses) is the power that works in us if we submit. The Word of God is full of grace and truth. Verse 14 the only begotten Word of God that is full of grace and truth. Verse17 came through Jesus who is the only begotten Son of God.

John 1:17-18
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)

 

[Free]

Pay close attention to that word "was".

You don't explain why one should pay close attention to that word.

 

[Squeakybro]

Was is pasttense not present tense. Was God left God came through Jesus and came to us. The Word is the verses that the Holy Spirit quotes to us in our minds to teach us.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

 

[Vic C.]

Was is pasttense not present tense...

Was, in this case, is not pasttense. In Greek, it is 'en', which is an imperfect verb of it's root 'eimi'.

(imperfect= 2 : of, relating to, or constituting a verb tense used to designate a continuing state or an incomplete action especially in the past.)

The meaning of the Greek word 'eimi' is...

1) to be, to exist, to happen, to be present.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
Was, in this case, is not pasttense. In Greek, it is 'en', which is an imperfect verb of it's root 'eimi'.

I said
Well I guess if your going to claim something carnally you say it says anything you want. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Vic C.]

I said
Well I guess if your going to claim something carnally you say it says anything you want. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Guess what today's sermon was about? John 1:1-2. Guess what was the first post was I read when I got home from church? Yup, your post. Guess what Pastor defined for us? the word 'was'.

So you think proving something using the original language in which the verse was written is carnal??? :o Fine. Prove the Greek wrong. :roll:

 

[Squeakybro]

You said

So you think proving something using the original language in which the verse was written is carnal??? Fine. Prove the Greek wrong.

I said
Everyone starts out in life with a dictionary. Usually it is websters or funk and wagnal. If you will compare them to bible dictionaries you will see a big difference in the definitions. That is why they made a bible dictionary.
The bible dictionaries have a much deeper understanding. But when you come to the revelations of Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of you will find they have a much deeper understanding than even the bible dictionaries do. I share the revelations of Jesus Christ with others so they may see. But some are still blind, I cant do nothing about that. If I am sharing something to deep for you just move on, and one day you might see. But I can tell you this if you cant understand these revelations you are still in the milk. Ofcourse if you did understand them you wouldnt be commenting would you.

John 3:34
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.
(NKJ)