[__ Science __ ] One of Evolution’s Most Famous Stories Gets a Rewrite

[Barbarian]

We start with defining terms:

"With respect to savages, Mr. Winwood Reade informs me that the negroes of West Africa often commit suicide."-Descent of Man

This is so painfully simple...

"With respect to animals, I am informed that bats can fly."

So your reasoning is that I must therefore believe that all animals are bats. Do you really not see the problem you have with this reasoning?

I see how much you have invested in the stories you were told. But now that you see that Darwin himself has debunked them, it's time to make an accommodation with reality.

The same remark holds good with equal or greater force with respect to the numerous points of mental similarity between the most distinct races of man. The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans differ as much from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Fuegians on board the Beagle, with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours; and so it was with a full-blooded negro with whom I happened once to be intimate
Charles Darwin The Descent of Man

 

[Vaccine]

This is so painfully simple...

"With respect to animals, I am informed that bats can fly."

So your reasoning is that I must therefore believe that all animals are bats. Do you really not see the problem you have with this reasoning?

I see how much you have invested in the stories you were told. But now that you see that Darwin himself has debunked them, it's time to make an accommodation with reality.

The same remark holds good with equal or greater force with respect to the numerous points of mental similarity between the most distinct races of man. The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans differ as much from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Fuegians on board the Beagle, with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours; and so it was with a full-blooded negro with whom I happened once to be intimate
Charles Darwin The Descent of Man

"With respect to" is not explicit. So it's incredibly flawed to view a tentative phrase as an if then statement. Nowhere in your example or mine should any conclusions be drawn about all animals or all savages because "with respect to" is not absolute. So that's just clutching at straws to avoid the conclusion Darwin meant present day people when he said they had brains little superior to an ape.

The stories I'm told all come from Darwin himself. The only thing being debunked is this nonsense:

Claim: Darwin could not possibly have beet referring to blacks in his mention of "savages" in this context
Debunked: "With respect to savages, Mr. Winwood Reade informs me that the negroes of West Africa often commit suicide."-Descent of Man
"natural selection could only have endowed the savage with a brain a little superior to that of an ape." -Descent of Man

Claim:. essentially the same in their mental capacities.
Debunked: "The variability or diversity of the mental faculties in men of the same race, not to mention the greater differences between the men of distinct races, is so notorious that not a word need here be said." --Descent of Man

 

[Barbarian]

Debunked: "With respect to savages, Mr. Winwood Reade informs me that the negroes of West Africa often commit suicide."-Descent of Man

This is so painfully simple...

"With respect to animals, I am informed that bats can fly."

So your reasoning is that I must therefore believe that all animals are bats. Do you really not see the problem you have with this reasoning?

I see how much you have invested in the stories you were told. But now that you see that Darwin himself has debunked them, it's time to make an accommodation with reality.

The same remark holds good with equal or greater force with respect to the numerous points of mental similarity between the most distinct races of man. The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans differ as much from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Fuegians on board the Beagle, with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours; and so it was with a full-blooded negro with whom I happened once to be intimate
Charles Darwin The Descent of Man

 

[Vaccine]

Debunked: "With respect to savages, Mr. Winwood Reade informs me that the negroes of West Africa often commit suicide."-Descent of Man

What's being debunked? Savages don't commit suicide according to Mr Reade?

This is so painfully simple...

"With respect to animals, I am informed that bats can fly."

So your reasoning is that I must therefore believe that all animals are bats. Do you really not see the problem you have with this reasoning?

I see how much you have invested in the stories you were told. But now that you see that Darwin himself has debunked them, it's time to make an accommodation with reality.

The problem I see is inserting a word that isn't there: all. l assume you inserted that word to make it look like a common logical fallacy. But here's an actual example of the logical fallacy:
All dogs are animals.
Therefore, all animals are dogs.

These are not conditional statements meant to advance an argument:
"With respect to animals, I am informed that bats can fly."
"With respect to savages, Mr. Winwood Reade informs me that the negroes of West Africa often commit suicide."-Descent of Man

They're just declarative statements. Do you understand the difference between affirming the consequent and mere statements?

The same remark holds good with equal or greater force with respect to the numerous points of mental similarity between the most distinct races of man. The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans differ as much from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Fuegians on board the Beagle, with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours; and so it was with a full-blooded negro with whom I happened once to be intimate
Charles Darwin The Descent of Man

I see you still haven't any quotes pointing out any specific similarities. Yet, Darwin's full of gems like these:
"The chief causes of the low morality of savages, as judged by our standard, are, firstly, the confinement of sympathy to the same tribe. Secondly, powers of reasoning insufficient to recognise the bearing of many virtues, especially of the self-regarding virtues, on the general welfare of the tribe." -Descent of Man

According to Darwin civilized white people have better powers of reasoning than savages. Just Darwin spewing more of his idiotic white supremist ideas.

 

[Barbarian]

I see you still haven't any quotes pointing out any specific similarities. Yet, Darwin's full of gems like these:
"The chief causes of the low morality of savages, as judged by our standard, are, firstly, the confinement of sympathy to the same tribe. Secondly, powers of reasoning insufficient to recognise the bearing of many virtues, especially of the self-regarding virtues, on the general welfare of the tribe." -Descent of Man

Notice this is precisely what's wrong with America right now.

So there you go.

 

[Vaccine]

Notice this is precisely what's wrong with America right now.

So there you go.

I agree, people who don't use their powers of reasoning are what's wrong with America. Can we agree since all humans have the same genetics, all humans have the same powers of reasoning?
That there's no scientific basis for asserting one race has deficient powers of reasoning while another race has superior powers of reasoning?

 

[Barbarian]

I agree, people who don't use their powers of reasoning are what's wrong with America. Can we agree since all humans have the same genetics, all humans have the same powers of reasoning?

Darwin thought so. He wasn't aware of genes, but he knew all humans were pretty much the same in the ways their minds worked.

That there's no scientific basis for asserting one race has deficient powers of reasoning while another race has superior powers of reasoning?

There's no scientific basis for the existence of different races. They are merely cultural inventions. There are no biological human races, and there haven't been for a long time.

 

[Vaccine]

Darwin thought so. He wasn't aware of genes, but he knew all humans were pretty much the same in the ways their minds worked.

Darwin didn't think so. Darwin dedicated several chapters discussing how inferior other races were compared to white races mental powers. The once mention of mental similarities he remarked were unimportant. I'm sure we'll have a good laugh about this when we meet in heaven and no offense, I have to say defending Darwin's indefensible statements is as entertaining as watching conservatives defending Trump respecting the bible, women, etc.

 

[Barbarian]

Darwin didn't think so. Darwin dedicated several chapters discussing how inferior other races were compared to white races mental powers.

Doesn't seem so...
The same remark holds good with equal or greater force with respect to the numerous points of mental similarity between the most distinct races of man. The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans differ as much from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Fuegians on board the Beagle, with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours; and so it was with a full-blooded negro with whom I happened once to be intimate
Charles Darwin The Descent of Man

 

[Vaccine]

Doesn't seem so...
The same remark holds good with equal or greater force with respect to the numerous points of mental similarity between the most distinct races of man. The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans differ as much from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Fuegians on board the Beagle, with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours; and so it was with a full-blooded negro with whom I happened once to be intimate
Charles Darwin The Descent of Man

On the one hand the majority of what Darwin wrote says white people were superior in mental power and physically to everyone else.
On the other hand, there's one mention of mental similarities which Darwin remarked were unimportant.

If someone ignores the preponderance of evidence in favor of one anomaly, would you say they are they going where the facts lead? Or clinging to their own bias?

 

[Barbarian]

On the one hand the majority of what Darwin wrote says white people were superior in mental power and physically to everyone else.
On the other hand, there's one mention of mental similarities which Darwin remarked were unimportant.

Actually, he mentions physical differences as unimportant. He mentions that as an aside that all of those seem to be from a common ancestor of all humans.

I don't see any conflict between his observation that all races are basically alike in mental ability, and his assertion that some cultures are superior to others. As you see, his idea that the first humans had brains not much better than those of other apes has been validated by fossil discoveries. None of those were of our own species, however.

Darwin's experience with the Indians of Tierra de Fuego impressed him greatly. His first impression:

"The sight of a naked savage in his native land is an event which can never be forgotten." They are, to him, "like the troubled spirits of another world."

But after getting to know some of them, who were brought back to England:

Four years earlier, FitzRoy brought three Fuegians to England to "civilize" them. ... Their real names were Yokcushlu, Orundellico, and El'leparu. Darwin is particularly fond of Jemmy. "He was merry and often laughed, and was remarkably sympathetic with anyone in pain." And he calls Fuegia Basket "a nice, modest, reserved young girl ... very quick in learning anything."
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/darwin/diary/1833.html

 

[Vaccine]

Actually, he mentions physical differences as unimportant. He mentions that as an aside that all of those seem to be from a common ancestor of all humans.

I don't see any conflict between his observation that all races are basically alike in mental ability, and his assertion that some cultures are superior to others. As you see, his idea that the first humans had brains not much better than those of other apes has been validated by fossil discoveries. None of those were of our own species, however.

Darwin's experience with the Indians of Tierra de Fuego impressed him greatly. His first impression:

"The sight of a naked savage in his native land is an event which can never be forgotten." They are, to him, "like the troubled spirits of another world."

But after getting to know some of them, who were brought back to England:

Four years earlier, FitzRoy brought three Fuegians to England to "civilize" them. ... Their real names were Yokcushlu, Orundellico, and El'leparu. Darwin is particularly fond of Jemmy. "He was merry and often laughed, and was remarkably sympathetic with anyone in pain." And he calls Fuegia Basket "a nice, modest, reserved young girl ... very quick in learning anything."
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/darwin/diary/1833.html

Darwin was a compassionate person. But that doesn't excuse his comments such as this:

"No doubt the difference in this respect is enormous, even if we compare the mind of one of the lowest savages, who has no words to express any number higher than four, and who uses hardly any abstract terms for common objects or for the affections, with that of the most highly organised ape." --Descent of Man

"Secondly, powers of reasoning insufficient to recognise the bearing of many virtues, especially of the self-regarding virtues, on the general welfare of the tribe." -Descent of Man

"natural selection could only have endowed the savage with a brain a little superior to that of an ape." -Descent of Man" -Descent of Man

"natural selection could only have endowed the savage with a brain a little superior to that of an ape." -Descent of Man

 

[Vaccine]

The majority of what Darwin wrote is about how inferior the other races are compared to the white races. The compassion he felt for animals and lower races doesn't excuse his racism.
Saying differences, such as insufficient powers of reasoning, are social is a creative re-telling of the facts. Why are you doing that?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

"On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"is the actual title of Darwins' beliefs. It's embarrassing for evolutionists to admit even the title is the belief of a racist.

 

[Barbarian]

"On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"is the actual title of Darwins' beliefs. It's embarrassing for evolutionists to admit even the title is the belief of a racist.

Actually, "races" in his day was applied to species of animal. Your misunderstanding made it on the list of AIG's "arguments we do not think creationists should make."

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Actually, "races" in his day was applied to species of animal. Your misunderstanding made it on the list of AIG's "arguments we do not think creationists should make."

People aren't animals. Evolutionists simply believe human beings are animals because that's the package they were handed all wrapped up with a bow.
Personally, I think seeing suffering distorted Darwins' view of God, if he ever had a proper view of God which seems unlikely.

 

[Barbarian]

People aren't animals.

Yep. We're primates to be more precise. That's what we are. But it's not all we are. God also gives us directly an immortal soul.

Evolutionists simply believe human beings are animals because that's the package they were handed all wrapped up with a bow.

The fact is, we are genetically primates. Among the apes, we and chimps are more closely related to each other than either of us is to any other animal.

Personally, I think seeing suffering distorted Darwins' view of God

Darwin thought God created the first living things. He was kidded on the Beagle for his orthodox Anglican beliefs. Years after he wrote On the Origin of Species, the death of a beloved daughter shook his faith.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Yep. We're primates to be more precise. That's what we are.

Men may classify themselves any way they wish.

But it's not all we are. God also gives us directly an immortal soul.

Only the redeemed are given immortality.

The fact is, we are genetically primates. Among the apes, we and chimps are more closely related to each other than either of us is to any other animal.

In some ways, humans can be genetically similar to plants, but that doesn't mean Mr. Potato Head is our ancestor.

Darwin thought God created the first living things. He was kidded on the Beagle for his orthodox Anglican beliefs.

Kidded by who and for what reason?

Years after he wrote On the Origin of Species, the death of a beloved daughter shook his faith.

Darwin couldn't reconcile a good God with evil in this world. He wrongfully assumed God created a system of "natural selection" (survival of the fittest) to explain atrocities.
For instance starvation. The unsaved don't seem to understand that our good God gives us everything we need to to feed ourselves and expects us to share with the poor. It's easier for the ungodly to think of God as evil, instead of becomming more like him.
In fact our Savior proved "survival of the fittest" as science defines it isn't true.

 

[Barbarian]

Men may classify themselves any way they wish.

Comes down to evidence. Reality doesn't care what we wish.

Only the redeemed are given immortality.

Jesus says otherwise...
Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I believe Him. You should, too.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Comes down to evidence. Reality doesn't care what we wish.

Tell that to people who who have evidence that a 3 day old dead body can't be reanimated. That's the gospel, regardless of mans' evidence.

Jesus says otherwise...
Matthew 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I believe Him. You should, too.

Immortality is given only to believers. Unbelievers perish completely after judgement.