One World Religion Takes Hold in America

[ChristianNationalist]

This isn't entirely true. That may have been how the Crusades first began but that is far from how they ended. So-called Christian armies from Rome sacked Constantinople, committing all the atrocities that go along with that against other Christians, leaving little left which led to the eventual capture of that city by Muslim forces.

Was there sin in the Crusades? Without a doubt.

I've heard this argument before, and it's yet another exaggeration by the left in an attempt to whitewash Islamic aggression. Constantinople stood for 250 years after being sacked by crusaders, the argument that three days of looting contributed to a cities fall two and a half centuries later is absolutely ridiculous. That's like saying if the United States was conquered tomorrow it was because the British burned Washington in 1814. No, it wasn't invading muslims that did it; it was the evil christian crusaders.

And you're taking my statement out of context, I wasn't saying crusaders never sinned; I was stating that the crusades themselves were just. The myth of the evil crusaders invading peaceful muslim lands is one of the biggest lies in history.

 

[jasoncran]

the crusades that invanded isreal werent real. theres wasnt an invasion into the holy land?
it may have been a response to save the brethren but well what do the jews in germany have to do with this?
its been a while but since i read into that stuff. ah i will ask the jews since they have a good bit to say on that.

In the early 1070s, the Muslim Turks commenced an offensive against the Christian pilgrims in Jerusalem. Pope Gregory VII offered his help to defend the Greek Christians, but the army he promised never materialized.
In 1095, his successor, Urban II, began to call for a holy war to liberate the Christians in Jerusalem. By the next year, more than 100,000 men had rallied to his call, forming the First Crusade. Urban and the local clergymen in Europe felt that the Crusade had another purpose as well--to annihilate all non-Christians in Europe who refused to convert to Christianity.
On their way to the Holy Land, the mobs of crusaders attacked many Jewish communities. On Shabbat, the 8th of Iyar, the Jews of Speyer (Rhineland-Palatinate), Germany were massacred. Many of the Jews of Worms, Germany were also massacred on this day; some of them took refuge in a local castle for a week before being slaughtered as they recited their morning prayers (see "Today in Jewish History" for Sivan 1).

from here.

http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day_cdo/aid/386680/jewish/1st-Crusade-Begins.htm

ok, that is what i heard and read on the history channel. and also its known to jews that christians often in those days and after up to the inquisition were killed by so called christians.



http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab54

a more neutral site.

and this from the christians who did try to protect them from the above site.

Prague is reached at the end of June and the city's Jews are killed. In most of these places the local bishops make efforts to protect the Jewish population, but they prove unable to do so. The king of Hungary, Kálmán, shows greater resolve.



Read more: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab54#ixzz1k31mzBBb​

its a sad chapter here.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

As for the shared pulpits, if you lie with serpents don't be surprised if you get bit.

 

[jasoncran]

so the murder of the jews was justified even though it was IN GERMANY AND HUNGARY AND THE OTHER PLACE?

did they attack christians? NO!is that what you are saying??

 

[ChristianNationalist]

so the murder of the jews was justified even though it was IN GERMANY AND HUNGARY AND THE OTHER PLACE?

did they attack christians? NO!is that what you are saying??

I'm not even sure if this is directed at me or not, it doesn't seem to jive with my comments but it also doesn't make sense for others; so I'll assume it's directed at me.

What are you talking about? I'm referring to the true crusades against the invading Islamic armies, there was no crusade against Jews. I'll quote myself:

And you're taking my statement out of context, I wasn't saying crusaders never sinned; I was stating that the crusades themselves were just. The myth of the evil crusaders invading peaceful muslim lands is one of the biggest lies in history.

The attacks on Jews throughout Europe weren't part of the Crusades, they coincided with the Crusades. Crusaders weren't called to fight the Muslim invaders and also slaughter any Jews you find along the way. If individuals sinned during the crusade it doesn't make the Crusades themselves sinful. The Crusades were a just response to Islamic aggression, and if it wasn't for the Crusades they might have conquered all of Europe piece by piece.

 

[jasoncran]

the articles and history records that jews were slaughtered by christians on the way to the crusades.

do you deny that?

and per this link urban and the bishops called for the killing of the jews

In 1095, his successor, Urban II, began to call for a holy war to liberate the Christians in Jerusalem. By the next year, more than 100,000 men had rallied to his call, forming the First Crusade. Urban and the local clergymen in Europe felt that the Crusade had another purpose as well--to annihilate all non-Christians in Europe who refused to convert to Christianity.

that is from chabad.org

and also

from that neutral site

On June 7 they reach their destination, arriving outside the mighty walls of Jerusalem. The city is at present held by the Fatimids. In the heat of the summer the crusaders toil for five weeks building two huge siege towers. Finally, in mid-July, they push them into place. On July 15 they breach the walls.










The resulting massacre of the Muslims and the Jews of Jerusalem shocks even medieval public opionion. The only Muslims to escape are the garrison of the main keep of the city, the tower of David. For a large quantity of treasure they are allowed to leave unharmed.

Read more: http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab54#ixzz1k8XZDuNl​

did the jews in jerusalem attack christians?

No.

All other Muslims are slaughtered wherever they may be, in streets or houses or holy places. Many lock themselves in one of their holiest shrines, the al-Aqsa mosque. Crusaders force the door and slay them. The Jews suffer a similar fate when they take refuge in their chief synagogue. It is burnt with them all inside. One of the crusaders describes these scenes in Jerusalem as a 'just and wonderful Judgement of God​

​

per this link here that is from another no christian nor jewish site

this said theres no mention of jews being attacked

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html

and this says the same as it only says muslims and quotes the former links stuff. so if the jews in jerusalem werent the enemy? did they attack the christians? no, so why were they attacked? i have established reasonably that urban did call them to die. he is indeed responsible as he didnt tell them to leave the jews alone.



http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/Ch...History/Crusades_PopeUrbanClermontSpeech.aspx

oddly theres no command not to slay the jews at all.only dont bother christians. hmmm so that does mean he did support killing jews in europe and also the jews in the holy land.

that means it wasnt exactly holy.

i have been to war and im all for defense of the innocents but lets be real here. this had nothing to do with just wars just vengeance and taking lives and forcing men to christ with violence.

its a sad chapter in our past.

you would have had a case if he did command to only kill muslims and those that would attack the christians.

i dont recall any condemnation against the murder of jews. so that makes him a supporter of it.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

War is Hell. There's never been a war where innocent people didn't die, that doesn't mean the war wasn't worth fighting. The Crusades in the Middle East ultimately failed, but they were worth fighting. We succeeded at least in driving them from Spain and Italy. Despite the failings of men, the Crusades were a just war and we have nothing to feel guilty about. Funny how nobody ever accuses the Muslims when indeed it was them who invaded our lands; we are supposed to feel guilty for attempting to reconquer the lands taken from us through violence and I refuse to feel guilty.

 

[jasoncran]

War is Hell. There's never been a war where innocent people didn't die, that doesn't mean the war wasn't worth fighting. The Crusades in the Middle East ultimately failed, but they were worth fighting. We succeeded at least in driving them from Spain and Italy. Despite the failings of men, the Crusades were a just war and we have nothing to feel guilty about. Funny how nobody ever accuses the Muslims when indeed it was them who invaded our lands; we are supposed to feel guilty for attempting to reconquer the lands taken from us through violence and I refuse to feel guilty.

who said that? i am a united states soldier and im a veteran of afghanistan. god forbid me if i as a leader of troops allowed my men to kill they did.

would you then not have a problem with our goverment non threatening and serving in country arabs? all because they are arabs and not americans by birth?

that is what they did. i do regret that war. it was lead wrong and done wrong and many men died for nothing that werent even involved.

i am a jew and a christian.i know full well what islam is about. i have been to war. i have had ptsd. so please. you dont have to tell me war is hell. i fully know it. but the commanders who fail to direct their troops from the front and set standards will be held accountable.

urban didnt do that with the jews so by proxy all non-christians everywhere were a target that is wrong. jesus didnt command us to kill the sinners but to preach to them

its one thing if the sinners attacked all throughout europe.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

who said that? i am a united states soldier and im a veteran of afghanistan. god forbid me if i as a leader of troops allowed my men to kill they did.

would you then not have a problem with our goverment non threatening and serving in country arabs? all because they are arabs and not americans by birth?

that is what they did. i do regret that war. it was lead wrong and done wrong and many men died for nothing that werent even involved.

i am a jew and a christian.i know full well what islam is about. i have been to war. i have had ptsd. so please. you dont have to tell me war is hell. i fully know it. but the commanders who fail to direct their troops from the front and set standards will be held accountable.

urban didnt do that with the jews so by proxy all non-christians everywhere were a target that is wrong. jesus didnt command us to kill the sinners but to preach to them

its one thing if the sinners attacked all throughout europe.

You're applying rules of the modern world to a conflict 1,000 years ago. There weren't any communications, logistics were a joke, crusaders didn't act any differently than every other army of their time. Even in the 19th century armies supplied themselves largely through looting. One of the problems Benedict Arnold encountered in dealing with his men during the Canadian campaigns was he didn't allow them to loot because he and Washington wanted to win the hearts and minds of Canadian colonists.

It was impossible to maintain the level of control over an army that we do today, and to expect it is absolutely unrealistic. The world is far different today than it was.

 

[jasoncran]

You're applying rules of the modern world to a conflict 1,000 years ago. There weren't any communications, logistics were a joke, crusaders didn't act any differently than every other army of their time. Even in the 19th century armies supplied themselves largely through looting. One of the problems Benedict Arnold encountered in dealing with his men during the Canadian campaigns was he didn't allow them to loot because he and Washington wanted to win the hearts and minds of Canadian colonists.

It was impossible to maintain the level of control over an army that we do today, and to expect it is absolutely unrealistic. The world is far different today than it was.

odd the pope came out to condemn in the second crusade with the killing of christians by the crusaders.

so your point is moot.and the local clergy man felt they were wrong with that in germany and tried to hide them

war doesnt excuse the right to commit attrocites.i can post the very fact that god would agree if he didnt say kill the enemies kids, they werent too do it.

urban knew of the fact and did nothing
sorry,
and a similar case with andersonville and the north as both sides did in leadership condemn those things

so back then its ok to wanton murder and rape if its for just cause. and yet with herman cain you call him immoral.

the state sanction of muder and rape doesnt make it right with god.