Bible Study Only Christian IF

[Papa Zoom]

I said
Like I said I didn't know who you were talking about us or the Jews. I still don't know.

It's really simple. Your claim is that God's love is conditional (you don't realize it but this means God can be manipulated) and that he loves us only IF we obey first. (this is unbiblical btw)

So from this:

Squeaky said:

I said
Jesus showed us what love is. He demonstrated love to us. Love is to suffer wrongfully but do it willingly.

[1Pe 2:19-22
19 For this [is] commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what credit [is it] if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this [is] commendable before God.
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 "Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth";
Click to expand...

You were asked this:
Did Jesus do this because we obeyed His commandments?

So: Did Jesus show us his love AFTER we obeyed (which is your view) or, it it as the Bible records: "While we were yet sinners." ? Which is it.

You need to defend your claim that God's love is conditional. How? Be precise and stop with the list of verses. No one reads them all and most of them are irrelevant to your points. Just respond directly to the question above.

Did Jesus do this because we obeyed His commandments? Yes or no?

 

[JLB]

I said
If your going to ask the same question I'll have to give the same answer.
I said
Jesus done it because God the Father told Him to.
[Jhn 12:48-49
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own [authority]; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.

[Jhn 8:29
29 "And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him."

These scriptures don’t answer the simple question I asked.

I asked you if you believed Jesus died for our sins because we obeyed His commandments.


I asked this because you seem to have trouble understanding God’s unconditional love for us.

Jesus went to the cross because He loves the Father and demonstrates His love by His obedience.

God loves us unconditionally, which means there is no condition for us to meet for God to love us.

If you don’t believe God loves us unconditionally, then please share the scripture that teaches us the condition we are required to meet, in order for God to love us.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

It doesn't matter who you are or what you have done God's love is waiting for you to return back to His grace as His love is unconditional as we are made righteous before Him by His righteousness through that of the blood of Christ that washes us clean again when we come before Him with a humbled heart of repentance.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Grace is unmerited favor, God's unconditional love towards His creation even though we do not deserve it, but is longsuffering that none should perish, but repent and turn back to Him, 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Joel 2:12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: 13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

 

[Squeaky]

It's really simple. Your claim is that God's love is conditional (you don't realize it but this means God can be manipulated) and that he loves us only IF we obey first. (this is unbiblical btw)

So from this:

You were asked this:
Did Jesus do this because we obeyed His commandments?

So: Did Jesus show us his love AFTER we obeyed (which is your view) or, it it as the Bible records: "While we were yet sinners." ? Which is it.

You need to defend your claim that God's love is conditional. How? Be precise and stop with the list of verses. No one reads them all and most of them are irrelevant to your points. Just respond directly to the question above.

Did Jesus do this because we obeyed His commandments? Yes or no?

I said
Well the scripture say

[1Jo 2:4
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[Jhn 14:15, 21
15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. ...
21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
[Jhn 15:10
10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

 

[Squeaky]

These scriptures don’t answer the simple question I asked.

I asked you if you believed Jesus died for our sins because we obeyed His commandments.


I asked this because you seem to have trouble understanding God’s unconditional love for us.

Jesus went to the cross because He loves the Father and demonstrates His love by His obedience.

God loves us unconditionally, which means there is no condition for us to meet for God to love us.

If you don’t believe God loves us unconditionally, then please share the scripture that teaches us the condition we are required to meet, in order for God to love us.



JLB

I said

Faith-Works-Love (By Themselves they are only principles) But together they are righteousness.



People are trying to make a conclusion out of pieces and parts. It cant be done. Faith alone won't get you to heaven. Works alone won't get you to heaven. Love alone won't get you to heaven. That is the only conclusion.



XXX If all you have to present to God is faith, YOU ARE NOTHING.

1 Cor 13:1-2



1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

James 2:14

14What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James 2:17-18

17Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

James 2:24

24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

James 2:26

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Rom 16:26

26but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--

(NKJ)



XXX You are saved by grace through faith. But that is NOT SALVATION. Faith only works through love.



Eph 2:8

8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

(NKJ)





Luke 6:32-33

32"But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.

33"And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.

(NKJ)



xxx Some stand on faith and some stand on works and some stand on love. They are all principles, they have to be together. So many on here are argueing just one point or part of a whole. You need to understand. Faith without works or love is dead. Works without faith or love is vanity. Love without faith or works is useless. Love is NOT AN EMOTION. Love is an action.



So many are running on blind faith. They dont even know what faith is. In reality their useing trust as faith. Their different. Your faith should be in what is written, all of it. But faith alone will NOT get you to heaven. Works alone will NOT get you to heaven. Love alone will not get you to heaven. What you need is the true faith in the Word of God. If you have the true faith in the Word of God you would try your best to do the works that are in the Word. Now love is NOT a feeling but an action. And the only way to learn what Godly love is would be to do the works. That is how you learn what love is by trying to do the works. In the Word that you have put your faith in.





Rom 5:1-4

1Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

2through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;

4and perseverance, character; and character, hope.

Eph 2:18-20

18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

19Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone,

Eph 3:12

12in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

(NKJ)



xxx Do you have real faith, or blind faith?? The true faith only works through love. True love is to suffer wrongfully. Your real faith only works when you are suffering wrongfully.



Gal 5:6

6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

(NKJ)



1 Tim 1:5-6

5Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,

6from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,

(NKJ)

 

[JLB]

I said

Faith-Works-Love (By Themselves they are only principles) But together they are righteousness.



People are trying to make a conclusion out of pieces and parts. It cant be done. Faith alone won't get you to heaven. Works alone won't get you to heaven. Love alone won't get you to heaven. That is the only conclusion.



XXX If all you have to present to God is faith, YOU ARE NOTHING.

1 Cor 13:1-2



1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

James 2:14

14What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James 2:17-18

17Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

James 2:24

24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

James 2:26

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Rom 16:26

26but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--

(NKJ)



XXX You are saved by grace through faith. But that is NOT SALVATION. Faith only works through love.



Eph 2:8

8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

(NKJ)





Luke 6:32-33

32"But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.

33"And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.

(NKJ)



xxx Some stand on faith and some stand on works and some stand on love. They are all principles, they have to be together. So many on here are argueing just one point or part of a whole. You need to understand. Faith without works or love is dead. Works without faith or love is vanity. Love without faith or works is useless. Love is NOT AN EMOTION. Love is an action.



So many are running on blind faith. They dont even know what faith is. In reality their useing trust as faith. Their different. Your faith should be in what is written, all of it. But faith alone will NOT get you to heaven. Works alone will NOT get you to heaven. Love alone will not get you to heaven. What you need is the true faith in the Word of God. If you have the true faith in the Word of God you would try your best to do the works that are in the Word. Now love is NOT a feeling but an action. And the only way to learn what Godly love is would be to do the works. That is how you learn what love is by trying to do the works. In the Word that you have put your faith in.





Rom 5:1-4

1Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

2through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;

4and perseverance, character; and character, hope.

Eph 2:18-20

18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

19Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone,

Eph 3:12

12in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

(NKJ)



xxx Do you have real faith, or blind faith?? The true faith only works through love. True love is to suffer wrongfully. Your real faith only works when you are suffering wrongfully.



Gal 5:6

6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

(NKJ)



1 Tim 1:5-6

5Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,

6from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,

(NKJ)

Nothing here that addresses my question.


If you don’t believe God loves us unconditionally, then please share the scripture that teaches us the condition we are required to meet, in order for God to love us.

• please share the scripture that teaches us the condition we are required to meet, in order for God to love us.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I said
Well the scripture say

[1Jo 2:4
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[Jhn 14:15, 21
15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. ...
21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
[Jhn 15:10
10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

This has ZERO to do with your claim. Good grief, there are more verses that speak to God’s love

1 John 4:8
Romans 5:8

 

[Squeaky]

Nothing here that addresses my question.


If you don’t believe God loves us unconditionally, then please share the scripture that teaches us the condition we are required to meet, in order for God to love us.

• please share the scripture that teaches us the condition we are required to meet, in order for God to love us.

I said
I did. Read the revelation. Do you know what love is? Love is to suffer against all your emotions. Emotions of wrath, justice, vengeance . If your a live God is loving you. But that alone won't get you to heaven.

 

[Squeaky]

This has ZERO to do with your claim. Good grief, there are more verses that speak to God’s love

1 John 4:8
Romans 5:8

I said


xxx Some stand on faith and some stand on works and some stand on love. They are all principles, they have to be together. So many on here are argueing just one point or part of a whole. You need to understand. Faith without works or love is dead. Works without faith or love is vanity. Love without faith or works is useless. Love is NOT AN EMOTION. Love is an action.

 

[JLB]

Love is to suffer against all your emotions. Emotions of wrath, justice, vengeance .

I can agree with that.


Although I think you meant “injustice”.

 

[stovebolts]

I said


xxx Some stand on faith and some stand on works and some stand on love. They are all principles, they have to be together. So many on here are argueing just one point or part of a whole. You need to understand. Faith without works or love is dead. Works without faith or love is vanity. Love without faith or works is useless. Love is NOT AN EMOTION. Love is an action.

I actually agree that all three are intertwined.

I also see our actions intertwined with our emotions. I'm reminded of something I heard a long time ago. If you want to feel differently. Act differently. In other words, if you want to feel love, you have to act in love.

My brother suffers with heavy depression. He has to keep his daily routine or else his depression can overwhelm him. He sometimes has to force himself out of bed to take a walk which helps him feel better. If he stays in bed, it consumes him and makes him feel worse.

Emotions are intertwined into everything we do, or dont do.

 

[JLB]

Faith without works or love is dead.

The works, or obedience is the love.

If we obey Him, we love Him.

We love Him, by loving our neighbor.

We love our neighbor by our actions not our words alone.

If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:15-17



JLB

 

[Papa Zoom]

The works, or obedience is the love.

If we obey Him, we love Him.

We love Him, by loving our neighbor.

We love our neighbor by our actions not our words alone.

If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:15-17



JLB

Thanks for posting this. This is the kind of post that I find encouraging as well as challenging. It's clear that the Bible teaches that if we claim to love God, we'll seek to obey His word. It's a daily thing. What can I do today to serve others in love and honor God?

 

[JLB]

Thanks for posting this. This is the kind of post that I find encouraging as well as challenging. It's clear that the Bible teaches that if we claim to love God, we'll seek to obey His word. It's a daily thing. What can I do today to serve others in love and honor God?

Yes sir. Amen.

 

[Jim Parker]

ONLY CHRISTIANS IF? ONLY LOVED IF? IF IS A CONDITION

Heb 3:5-6 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

Eph 4:21 IF indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

Matt 11:27 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

1 Pet 4:17-18 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and IF it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? Now "IF the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

Heb 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

I Jn 1:8-10 IF we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. IF we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

2 Cor 10:3-5 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

I Jn 2:4-5 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

John 15:10 "IF you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

John 15:14 "You are My friends IF you do whatever I command you.

I Jn 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments.

Matt 6:14-15 "For IF you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
"But IF you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I Jn 5:3-4 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.

Rev 22:18-19 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: IF anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and IF anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Matt 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

(NKJ)Col 1:23 IF indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

(NKJ)
xxx The IF's in the Word of God are conditions of love. There is no such thing as unconditional love. God says He will(not is) but will be a Father to us. If has always been one of the biggest conditions for love in God. God will love you IF.

2 Cor 6:14-18
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Therefore "Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you." "I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."

(NKJ)
2 Pet 1:5-10 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

(NKJ)
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

(NKJ)
Gal 5:24-25 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

(NKJ)
John 15:7"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

(NKJ)
John 14:15"If you love Me, keep My commandments.

(NKJ)
John 15:10"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

(NKJ)
Heb 8:6-7But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

(NKJ)
John 6:65And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

(NKJ)
Luke 13:3"I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

(NKJ)
Luke 13:5"I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish."

(NKJ)

"IF" is one of the most intentionally ignored words in the Bible.
Good post