Only ONE TRUE GOD.

[Imagican]

Since there is ONLY ONE TRUE God, is it POSSIBLE for God to make ANOTHER God EQUAL to Himself?

We see, through scripture, that what caused the fall of Satan was HIS desire to BE God. The Hebrews/Jews KNEW/KNOW that there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD.

But we also KNOW that there are MANY gods. For man has incessantly created them since the beginning of time. Nothing new, right? There are sun gods, moon gods, water gods, etc.......... If there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, then what happens to those that choose to worship these false gods in the form of dogs, or cats, or jackles, or birds? What are they 'truly' worshiping?

MEC

 

[scutato]

I see where you're going, and I agree that Satan is a "god" of sorts to these people. However, Satan is by no means equal to God, or even capable of becoming equal.

If humans are smart enough to figure out you DON'T create something bigger than yourself, then certainly God is.

 

[Imagican]

What humans have been struggling with for a few thousand years now is the difference between believing that THEY are their OWN gods rather than submitting to the ONE TRUE GOD.

Satans MOST useful tool is NOT encouraging worship of HIM, but offering the 'idea' that we can worship OURSELVES. He IS the 'father of lies' and his most useful ones are the ones that don't even 'seem' to be lies at all.

As one reads through many of the posts on this forum, it becomes obvious that there are many among us that are MUCH more concerned with what 'pleases' them than offering submission to that which we have been commanded to DO. I wonder just 'how much' of a relationship can be developed by anyone that chooses 'themselves' over ANYTHING else.

This thread was started with the hopes that I may be able offer the truth concerning the difference between God and 'other gods'. Many seem to find this subject confusing.

So, what IS a god? Is is not ANYTHING that we 'worship' as a god? That which we place FIRST in our lives? Not necessarily first EVERY MINUTE, but first for EVEN a minute? This is a pretty good start. Let's see what kind of responses THIS brings.

MEC

 

[Poke]

Since there is ONLY ONE TRUE God, is it POSSIBLE for God to make ANOTHER God EQUAL to Himself?

That's a nonsense question. If by definition there is only one God, it's meaningless to ask if there can be two "only one" Gods. Maybe God could make a second true God so there would be only two true Gods, but that also strikes me as a nonsense question.

I can't understand how Satan could think he could be greater than God. The verse in Isaiah about an earthly king might not apply to Satan. And, the meaning "greater than God" might only mean a belief that one does not need to obey God.

 

[lovely]

MEC,

Are you equating idols with "other gods"? I will proceed with the idea that you are. If we have an idol that we put before God, I think that it is the equivalent of putting ourselves before God in all cases. 1 John 2 tells us that all that is in the world consists of the...

1. the lust of the flesh
2. the lust of the eyes
3. the pride of life.

These are the three areas that Adam was tempted, and he failed because he put his will above God's will. Christ was also tempted in these areas, and He resisted by putting God's Will above His own. We would fail too, but for the grace, and Spirit, of God. So, an idol is anything that we cling to that keeps us from being given over to God, and His Word, completely. It is anything that we willfully put before God's will. Thankfully, He is able to forgive us, and deliver us, when we repent.

 

[scorpia]

Since there is ONLY ONE TRUE God, is it POSSIBLE for God to make ANOTHER God EQUAL to Himself?

If you believe all things are possible with God and that nothing is impossible with God, then it follows that it is possible for God to make ANOTHER GOD EQUAL TO HIMSELF (just for the sake of answering your question based on the attributes of God). But I do not say the God did this already.

We see, through scripture, that what caused the fall of Satan was HIS desire to BE God.

But this does not come to reality, does this?

But we also KNOW that there are MANY gods. For man has incessantly created them since the beginning of time. Nothing new, right? There are sun gods, moon gods, water gods, etc.......... If there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, then what happens to those that choose to worship these false gods in the form of dogs, or cats, or jackles, or birds?

The Lord God said that we should only worship HIm as the one true God of all hence if we failed to do that, hell of fire and boiling water is all that awaits us in eternity.

What are they 'truly' worshiping?

You yourself say that there is only One True God of all and that is the REALITY that many do not see nor understand. Since there is only One True God of all, then those you mentioned above that people do worship in their life are what? Are they the One True God? If not, then you yourself have already answered your question.

 

[mutzrein]

Imagican - I like it. Where on earth do you get the time to make your pithy posts? Certainly you give food for thought.

 

[Imagican]

Bare with me Mutz, this IS leading 'somewhere', I assure you.

Ok lovely, I 'agree' with what you have offered. But that does NOT take away the negative aspects of allowing 'self' to 'serve' other idols. If so, there would have been NO NEED to forbid it. And I contend that ANYTHING that one allows themselves to LOVE more than GOD IS AN IDOL OF THEIR WORSHIP. And this could be ANYTHING, LITERALLY. That most have chosen 'self' takes away NOTHING from my offering.

Poke, to you, my postulation 'would' seem rediculous. You have offered your 'lack' of understanding in 'almost' EVERY post that I have read that you have posted. I condemn you NOT, but I am unable to take your comments seriously either. So, I offer again, you WOULD find my questions rediculous for you have no answer other than THAT. This is WHERE understanding is able to offer more than the scoffing from those without it. And don't get me WRONG. I speak NOT of the understanding of the world, for that you seem to be very proficient. It's the 'true' understanding of purpose and nature that I refer.

Look folks, where I am leading with this is HERE; Is there ONLY ONE TRUE GOD or is there even a remote possibility that there are MORE than ONE TRUE GOD? For we KNOW that there are a myriad of gods. There are gods that have been known to man BEFORE the ONE TRUE GOD. Can He or can He NOT create another 'like Himself'? The question MUST have a YES or NO answer or there IS NOT TRUTH in the understanding of those that can't answer it. Think about and I await your answers.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Since there is ONLY ONE TRUE God, is it POSSIBLE for God to make ANOTHER God EQUAL to Himself?

If you believe all things are possible with God and that nothing is impossible with God, then it follows that it is possible for God to make ANOTHER GOD EQUAL TO HIMSELF (just for the sake of answering your question based on the attributes of God). But I do not say the God did this already.

We see, through scripture, that what caused the fall of Satan was HIS desire to BE God.

But this does not come to reality, does this?

But we also KNOW that there are MANY gods. For man has incessantly created them since the beginning of time. Nothing new, right? There are sun gods, moon gods, water gods, etc.......... If there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, then what happens to those that choose to worship these false gods in the form of dogs, or cats, or jackles, or birds?

The Lord God said that we should only worship HIm as the one true God of all hence if we failed to do that, hell of fire and boiling water is all that awaits us in eternity.

What are they 'truly' worshiping?

You yourself say that there is only One True God of all and that is the REALITY that many do not see nor understand. Since there is only One True God of all, then those you mentioned above that people do worship in their life are what? Are they the One True God? If not, then you yourself have already answered your question.

Good job scorpia, for you ARE following the 'train of thought' to an extent. If you knew the outcome you might even be 'right on track'. We'll just have to wait and see.

MEC

 

[jgredline]

Mec
I am off to bed right now, but this one will be fun..
I scanned through post rather quickly, but tomarrow morning I will read the entire thread closely. I have a feeling I know where you are going with this and so It will be FUN.
bLESSINGS,
Javier

 

[mutzrein]

MEC - I know exactly where you are going and that is why I said, "I like it". But rather than 'bare' with you which might expose the truth :wink: I will 'bear' with you (as the hug variety).

 

[destiny]

If you believe all things are possible with God and that nothing is impossible with God, then it follows that it is possible for God to make ANOTHER GOD EQUAL TO HIMSELF

A creature can never be equal to the creator ....it's impossible. Creation is always 'less than' creator. It would be like saying 2 is greater than or equal to 10. Impossible.
He could create a being and pour His own power into it, giving it supremacy yet not exceeding His own because He would still have the ultimate power over the lesser creation.. as creator.

 

[scorpia]

If you believe all things are possible with God and that nothing is impossible with God, then it follows that it is possible for God to make ANOTHER GOD EQUAL TO HIMSELF

A creature can never be equal to the creator ....it's impossible.

It's impossible, to whom? Don't forget that the statement to which you addressed your post is based on "IF" and it is not a sweeping one. However, is it impossible for God to create another God equal to Him in any manner of His own existence? Would that be so, then there would now be something impossible to God and the statement "nothing is impossible with God" would not be a REALITY anymore. But I do maintain my belief that nothing is impossible with God.

Creation is always 'less than' creator.

Who said so? A 30 ton crane can lift a heavy equipment while the inventor and the creator of the said crane can't lift the same equipment, can he? But with God, there is nothing impossible or suffice to say, all things are possible with God.

It would be like saying 2 is greater than or equal to 10. Impossible.

With us it is but not with God himself.

He could create a being and pour His own power into it, giving it supremacy yet not exceeding His own because He would still have the ultimate power over the lesser creation.. as creator.

May we know from where are you coming in this part of your post? From whom did you learn this thing?

 

[Imagican]

If you believe all things are possible with God and that nothing is impossible with God, then it follows that it is possible for God to make ANOTHER GOD EQUAL TO HIMSELF

A creature can never be equal to the creator ....it's impossible. Creation is always 'less than' creator. It would be like saying 2 is greater than or equal to 10. Impossible.
He could create a being and pour His own power into it, giving it supremacy yet not exceeding His own because He would still have the ultimate power over the lesser creation.. as creator.

Ah destiny, you are too quick. You offer to expose the 'truth' BEFORE the questions are answered. Good job though.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Scorpia,

While I WILL agree that NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE with God. There are certainly rules that He exists by too. We may NOT know what they are, but that they exist, (even if CREATED BY HIM), is without doubt. For instance, is God capable of lying?

What we discuss here is ultimately whether or NOT He is CAPABLE of creating ANOTHER God JUST LIKE HIMSELF. From EVERYTHING we KNOW, we are capable of making things that 'resemble other things'. We are capable of reproduction but even that which is born is NOT the original, only an off-shoot of or 'image' of that which it 'came from'.

So, first we have to discern WHAT a god is and then compare it to THE God. It is ONLY at this point we can further examine this subject. I will offer the answer that I believe fulfills this 'part' of the discussion; God is THE ULTIMATE. There is NOTHING greater than God. And God can create NOTHING GREATER than Himself. 'I' belive that He is most likely unable to create HIMSELF. We are aware of what we have been offered in explanation of His Creation. And NOTHING of that creation equals Himself.

So, let's discuss this but start again 'from here'. God IS the one and ONLY True God. For the sake of this conversation, let us agree that God is INCAPABLE of creating HIMSELF. For to DO SO would be to eliminate or negate what has been offered in 'truth'. If God CANNOT LIE, then we have a 'place to start'. God IS God and there IS NO OTHER TRUE GOD. If we have been taught and taught righteously that there IS ONLY ONE GOD, is it not safe to assume that there NEVER WILL BE BUT ONE TRUE GOD? Agreed?

MEC

 

[jgredline]

Good Morning Mec and Mutz or anybody who does not believe Jesus is GOD.
I address you both because I suspect that this will be a tag team affair and its welcomed. Infact, Anyone. Correct me if I wrong, but this discussion is heading towards a couple of things.
Who is the one true God? (1) You will attempt to Prove that Jesus is not God and at the same time if you can prove that Jesus is not God, (2) then you will have proven the doctrine of trinity false. If you do indeed prove this, you would have done what has not been able to be done for nearly 2000 years..

Well lets get the party started..
As I have told both of you guys in the past, I do have a lot of respect for you and agree with just about everything you say. Our main difference is that I believe Jesus is God and is also the Son of God and I believe in the Godhead.

Now since we and others have partially discussed this in the past there is no need to beat a dead horse. Time to change the approach. I will start by asking you some very simple questions to give you somethings to chew on.
I have also taken much of my info from a few members on this board whom I would like to give credit to. It took a bit of research, but since I will save this debate or atleast this article for my website, it is all worth it.

I would like to thank these people in no particular order because they have all brought up very good points..
Lovely, Destiny, Vic, Cybershark, Lewis, Johnthebaptist,D46,MR Versatile, Gabbylittleangel, Stovebolts, and of course my Good friend Solo..

I would also like to thank Georges because of his heretical teachings, it has caused me to look deeper into the scriptures and thus has made me richer in my understaning of them.
George, By the way, I am 80% done correcting your pdf.

I prayfully hope that you and others will indeed see that Jesus Is God.

OK, let me start with this.
Why was the early and present day church so concerned about the doctrine of the Trinity?

Is it really essential to hold to the full deity of the Son and the Holy Spirit? Yes it is, for this teaching has implications for the very heart of the Christian faith.

First, the atonement is at stake. If Jesus is merely a created being, and not fully God, then it is hard to see how he, a creature, could bear the full wrath of God against all of our sins. Could any creature, no matter how great, really save us?

Second, justification by faith alone is threatened if we deny the full deity of the Son. (This is seen today in the teaching of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who do not believe in justification by faith alone.) If Jesus is not fully God, we would rightly doubt whether we can really trust him to save us completely. Could we really depend on any creature fully for our salvation?

Third, if Jesus is not infinite God, should we pray to him or worship him? Who but an infinite, omniscient God could hear and respond to all the prayers of all God’s people? And who but God himself is worthy of worship? Indeed, if Jesus is merely a creature, no matter how great, it would be idolatry to worship himâ€â€yet the New Testament commands us to do so (Phil. 2:9–11; Rev. 5:12–14).

Fourth, if someone teaches that Christ was a created being but nonetheless one who saved us, then this teaching wrongly begins to attribute credit for salvation to a creature and not to God himself. But this wrongfully exalts the creature rather than the Creator, something Scripture never allows us to do.

Fifth, the independence and personal nature of God are at stake: If there is no Trinity, then there were no interpersonal relationships within the being of God before creation, and, without personal relationships, it is difficult to see how God could be genuinely personal or be without the need for a creation to relate to.

Sixth, the unity of the universe is at stake: If there is not perfect plurality and perfect unity in God himself, then we have no basis for thinking there can be any ultimate unity among the diverse elements of the universe either. Clearly, in the doctrine of the Trinity, the heart of the Christian faith is at stake. ''

Mec and Mutz
Like I said. Here are a few questions and comments to chew on.
I have not even hit you with the powerful scriptures yet. I'm still working on them and putting them together for you in a way that will, and I pray will prove that Jesus is both God and the Son of God..and that you and others will come to that understanding..

Well Guys, I am still waiting. Here is your big chance to prove that mainstream orthodox Christianity has been wrong for nearly 2000 years..

Blessings,
Javier

 

[destiny]

I have a question:

Is it possible that Jesus is God to us because the Father wanted it to be this way?
Isn't it possible that God the father poured Himself into the Son for the very purpose that He is worshipped as God in heaven and earth, yet seperate in person from the Father?
Hence ....Jesus is the embodiment of God, or IS God as far as we are concerned because he is to be worshipped as such, yet He is the Son of God, the only way to the Father (supreme deity)

That makes sense to me whether it does anybody else or not :-D

 

[destiny]

I would like to thank these people in no particular order because they have all brought up very good points..
Lovely, Destiny, Vic, Cybershark, Lewis, Johnthebaptist,D46,MR Versatile, Gabbylittleangel, Stovebolts, and of course my Good friend Solo..

I missed this earlier, jgredline. Thanks ....even though I give you guys a hard time sometimes, I still appreciate what you have to say and realize your contribution to the forum as a whole is crucial at times with all the "stuff" going on here in the "name" of God.
Solo, I didn't see your post in the anti-Christ topic and hope you know I wasn't jumping on you. That bothered me a bit....I was actually jumping jgredline and JTB. :
Anyway ...I think i'll bow out of the God head topic now. Y'all have fun.

 

[jgredline]

Destiny
I really do appreciate your posts very much and you make me and many of us think. Thats a good thing. There are alot of things that we can agree to disagree about, because they are not salvation issues.. This issue however, in regards to the deity of Jesus Christ is not one of those we can agree to disagree topics, because it has everything to do with eternal salvation in Jesus Christ the Son of God who is God himself.
Much of my post above to Mec and Mutz came because of your post. I know its hard to understand the trinity and I certainly can't explain it. This is why Faith is required. However, God has given us the Holy Scriptures and understanding through his Holy Spirit so we are without excuse..

Jesus himself said he was God.
Jesus never said he was NOT God..
I know in reading your post you believe that Jesus is God and hopefully after we all contribute to this thread you and I will come away with a better understanding of the Holy God, Jesus Christ..
Please read my post to mec and mutz and see if those questions are valid questions to ask.
Blessings,
Javier

 

[golfjack]

reply

Five proofs that says that Jesus is the Son of God:

Proof 1. Jesus declared Himself to be the Son of God.

John 10:36: Say ye of him, Whom the Father hath sanctified, and senty into the World, thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Notice what Jesus claimed. He said that He lived before Abraham, the father of the Hebrew and arab nations, Verily, Verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am ( John 8:58).

He was in heaven with God before He came into the World. What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? ( John 6:62).

God had given His Son power to give men eternal life with God. Just before Christ was put upon a cross to die, He was praying. These words spake Jesus, and lifted up His eyes to Heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him ( John 17:1-2).

Proof 2: Christ's rise out of obsecurity.

From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given to him, and such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Is not this the carpenterr, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Judah, and Simon? and are not his sisters with us? And they were offended at him ( Mark 6:2, 3). In other words, although his brothers and sisters lived in the same house with Jesus a good part of thirty years, they seemingly had seen nothing unusual about him.

Though hated by His enemies, He so captivated the hearts of multitudes down through the centuries that many have considered it a supreme honor to die for Him.

Proof 3: He spoke with authoritry as no man spoke.

Read Matt. 7:28-29; Luke 4:32 and Matt. 27:54.

Proof 4 Christ knew the innermost thoughts of the sinner and bestowed forgiveness on him. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because He knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man: For He knew what was in man. ( John 2:24-25). Her testimony to her neighhbors carried such conviction that they also came and believed That this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world ( John 4:42).

Proof 5: Christ was the only sinless man.

Christ's sinlessness is an amazing thing, for ours is a fallen race. The best of us, without Christ redemption power, find evil tendencies seeking ascendancy within o=us. Read Romans 7:19-21. As a race we have all disobeyed and therefore, sinned. Then to find a man who is perfect and without sin is to find one whose root is not in the human race.

Proof 6: Christ performed miracles never before performed by man.

Read John 9:25; and John 10:38.

Yes Jesus Christ is Lord of lords and King of kings


May God bless, golfjack