Bible Study Origin of the Immortal Soul Doctrine

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Also, just because much of Revelation is allegory and metaphor doesn't mean that the souls under the altar are symbolic of something else. These souls dialogued with God, received white robes to wear, and were told to wait until all those who were to be martyred were martyred. There is no reason to interpret it as OT allegory.

There is more reason and support to interpret this as allegory borrowed from the OT than to say it should be taken literally. It is only taken literally (even though most of the rest of the passages surrounding it are figurative) because it HAS to be to support the concept of immortal souls, of which there is no biblical support. It is a presupposition read into the text (as are the rest of the meagre 'support' texts for immortality of the soul.)

Notice that the blood is under the altar.

What blood?

Sorry, I got my words all mixed up. The 'soul' here is nothing more than 'life', not some eternal substance. In the OT, the blood was considered to contain the life force. Hence the allegory to the OT in the sacrificial system of the blood under the altar and Abel's blood 'crying out' from the ground. The blood of the martyrs was crying out for revenge. To ignore the obvious allegory is to basically want to make it say what you want it to say.

What do you mean by "wholism"?

Wholism is that God made man a composite being of body, and spirit (breath of life or spark of existence) and man became a living soul. The word for soul in the Hebrew is 'nephesh' and in the Greek 'psuche' which NEVER means anything immortal. To make 'soul' mean something that lives on is to completely misunderstand the linguistic meaning of the word 'soul' in the Bible.

Rom. 2:5-9, "5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

Notice that is says we seek for immortality, it does not say that we already possess it. Christ in John 6:40-47 makes it plain that to have eternal life means to receive it at the resurrection, and not at death. This is also linked with the OT understanding of death in Job 21:30-32, Job 14:12-14, Daniel 12:1,2, and Ecclesiastes 9:5,6.

in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory....Note that this is speaking of the body, the flesh."

That is an incorrect assumption and one that needs to be made to make this fit with an immortal soul. The Bible (and especially this chapter) makes it plain that eternal life..period is contingent on the resurrection. Look at vs 13, 14, 17,18

But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen. And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain and your faith is vain....And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain and ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Hmm. I though immortal souls were free from the wages of sin: death. If my soul goes to heaven, how can I honestly perish?

For God so loved the world that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, BUT have everlasting life - John 3:16

Christ's death AND resurrection makes me live eternally! Without it, we would perish...in our sins..asleep...in the grave. If my soul lived on, I could not perish in my grave. I will have eternal life! When, though? At death? Look at vs 21-23

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order. Christ the first fruits, afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Interesting. We are made alive at the resurrection. If my soul is in heaven, I already have immortality and life. But the verses you quoted above (vs 51-56), show that the hope of eternal life is realized at the resurrection when we are granted immortality. Because of Christ's death and resurrection, life is granted at the resurrection. Without either the resurrection of Christ or the resurrection of the dead, there would be no eternal life.

To say that this only talking about the body makes this entire chapter, nay, the entire resurrection redundant and ludicrous. However, you cannot read an immortal soul in this chapter. There are numerous scriptures that support the wholism of man and the conditional dependence on the resurrection for life.

2 Tim. 1:10,"but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel."

And this proves what? Merely that immortality (salvation through Christ) is revealed through the gospel. It doesn't say anything about when or if man has it now. Again see John 6:40-47 to see what Christ meant by having 'everlasting life'.

Verily I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life....And this is the will of Him that sent me, that everyone which seeth the Son and believeth on Him may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day. vs 47,40

You will notice in Matt. 17 when Jesus is transfigured that both Moses and Elijah appear with Christ.

Yes. And isn't it funny that with ALL the great saints in heaven, only Moses and Elijah are the ones chosen to be present? Not Abraham, David, Daniel, Adam, Noah. Nope none of them. Elijah didn't see death because he was translated into heaven and Jude 6 says that Michael and Satan fought over Moses' body. It is most likely that even though Moses wasn't allowed to go to the promised land of Canaan, God had other plans for him and took him to heaven. Actually both these figures show the end time application of God's people saved in Christ. Elijah is an example of those who won't see death but will be translated, and Moses represents those who will be resurrected.

Also, just because the immortality of the soul was found in pagan Greek culture does not mean that it is wrong or unbiblical.

It is unbiblical because you won't find it there. I highly doubt that God's people would be wrong and that God revealed a falsehood to them and a heathen culture had the truth about the state of the dead. This is also wrong because the NT is the same as the OT in this belief. Both Christ and Paul refer to the resurrection as eternal life, and even refer to OT texts concerning it.

If the Greeks were right, then God's chosen people, and Christ and the apostles were wrong as well.

 

[Jay T]

All souls are eternal, and each soul will either be eternally in the presence of God or eternally separated from the presence of God.

The Bible never says that there is any such thing as eternal souls....God alone has immortality (1 Timothy 6:16)