Please find us the verses that say Jesus had sinful flesh , can you ?
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Original Sin
- Thread starter st_worm2
- Start date
1There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [d]through His Spirit who dwells in you. (Rom 8:1-11)
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.(Heb 2:14-18)
39All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind [f]of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.
40There are also [g]celestial bodies and [h]terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for onestar differs from another star in glory.
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam becamea life-giving spirit.
46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47The first man was of the earth, madeof dust; the second Man is [j]the Lord from heaven. 48As was the [k]man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we[l] shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”(1 Cor 15-39-53)
1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3and every spirit that does not confess [a]that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
4You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.(1 John 4:1-6)
Are you suggesting Jesus’ flesh was unlike the flesh of man?
Likeness of sinful flesh means NOT unlike it.
Heb 2:14 proves it.
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Hello LeviR et al, our body's flesh is not sinful, nor is dirt for that matter. In fact, when dirt does what it is supposed to do (which it always does 
) it not only is not sinful, it is holy (in a very real sense) because it's doing exactly what God made it to do. The Gnostics and several other cults taught that ANYTHING physical was sinful, but that's not what the Bible teaches.
I don't have time to post much right now, but here's an article (and a link to another, similar one) that will hopefully be helpful with this (or, at least, they should be a good place to begin discussing this topic more thoroughly
).
Lastly, here is a link to article #2 by the same folks: What Is The Flesh?
I plan to return a bit later this evening, so I'll (hopefully) see you then (Dv).
God bless you!!
--David
) it not only is not sinful, it is holy (in a very real sense) because it's doing exactly what God made it to do. The Gnostics and several other cults taught that ANYTHING physical was sinful, but that's not what the Bible teaches.I don't have time to post much right now, but here's an article (and a link to another, similar one) that will hopefully be helpful with this (or, at least, they should be a good place to begin discussing this topic more thoroughly
). Q. What does it mean that Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh?
A. Romans 8:3–4 says, “For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” To understand what it meant for Jesus to come “in the likeness of sinful flesh,” we need to define a couple of terms.
When the Bible refers to “the flesh” (John 6:63; Romans 8:8), it usually means the human tendency to sin that we all inherited from Adam (Romans 5:12). When Adam and Eve chose to rebel against God’s commandment, they became “sinful flesh.” At that moment, sin entered God’s perfect world and began to corrupt everything (Genesis 3). Since every human being came from Adam, we have all inherited his fallen nature. So every person is born as a sinner (Romans 3:10, 23).
The word likeness means “resemblance” or “the state of being like something else.” A likeness is not identical in substance or nature, but it is similar in appearance. A likeness is a representation of the original. For example, idols are made in the likeness of birds and beasts and created things (Romans 1:22–23; Exodus 20:4–5). A photograph is a likeness. Philippians 2:6–8 describes Jesus setting aside His divine privileges as God to take on the likeness of the humans He had created (see also John 1:3). However, Jesus did not have an earthly father, so He did not inherit a sin nature as all other human beings do (Luke 1:35). He took on human flesh, yet He retained His full divinity. He lived the life we live, suffered as we suffer, and learned and grew as we learn and grow, but He did it all without sin (Hebrews 4:15; 5:7–8). Because God was His Father, He lived only in the likeness of sinful flesh. Jesus inherited the flesh from His mother, Mary, but not the sin from Joseph.
Jesus became man in order to be our substitute. In His flesh, He had to suffer physical pain, emotional rejection, and spiritual separation from God (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34). He lived the life human beings live, but He did so in the way we were meant to live—in perfect fellowship with a holy God (John 8:29). Because He came in the likeness of sinful flesh, He could then present Himself as the final sacrifice sufficient to pay for the sins of all humanity (John 10:18; Hebrews 9:11–15).
In order to receive the gift of a full pardon from God, every person must allow Jesus to be his or her personal substitute. That means we come to Him in faith, recognizing that, because He came in the likeness of sinful flesh, was crucified, and took on the sins of the world, our sin can be paid for in full (2 Corinthians 5:21). Our own sinful flesh is crucified with Him so that we are free to follow the Spirit in total obedience to God (Romans 6:6–11; Galatians 2:20). Christians are those who have Christ’s death and resurrection credited to their account, thus wiping out the debt we owe God (Colossians 2:14). Because of this full pardon, Christians daily reckon themselves dead to their own sinful flesh. Since Christ conquered sin and death in His flesh, we can live by the power of His Spirit, who will conquer sin and death in all who trust in Christ (Galatians 5:16, 25; Romans 8:37).
Lastly, here is a link to article #2 by the same folks: What Is The Flesh?
I plan to return a bit later this evening, so I'll (hopefully) see you then (Dv).
God bless you!!
--David
The problem with having wrong ideas is that they pit one scripture against another. I don’t have that problem.Hello LeviR et al, our body's flesh is not sinful, nor is dirt for that matter. In fact, when dirt does what it is supposed to do (which it always does
I don't have time to post much right now, but here's an article (and a link to another, similar one) that will hopefully be helpful with this (or, at least, they should be a good place to begin discussing this topic more thoroughly
Q. What does it mean that Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh?A. Romans 8:3–4 says, “For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” To understand what it meant for Jesus to come “in the likeness of sinful flesh,” we need to define a couple of terms.When the Bible refers to “the flesh” (John 6:63; Romans 8:8), it usually means the human tendency to sin that we all inherited from Adam (Romans 5:12). When Adam and Eve chose to rebel against God’s commandment, they became “sinful flesh.” At that moment, sin entered God’s perfect world and began to corrupt everything (Genesis 3). Since every human being came from Adam, we have all inherited his fallen nature. So every person is born as a sinner (Romans 3:10, 23).The word likeness means “resemblance” or “the state of being like something else.” A likeness is not identical in substance or nature, but it is similar in appearance. A likeness is a representation of the original. For example, idols are made in the likeness of birds and beasts and created things (Romans 1:22–23; Exodus 20:4–5). A photograph is a likeness. Philippians 2:6–8 describes Jesus setting aside His divine privileges as God to take on the likeness of the humans He had created (see also John 1:3). However, Jesus did not have an earthly father, so He did not inherit a sin nature as all other human beings do (Luke 1:35). He took on human flesh, yet He retained His full divinity. He lived the life we live, suffered as we suffer, and learned and grew as we learn and grow, but He did it all without sin (Hebrews 4:15; 5:7–8). Because God was His Father, He lived only in the likeness of sinful flesh. Jesus inherited the flesh from His mother, Mary, but not the sin from Joseph.Jesus became man in order to be our substitute. In His flesh, He had to suffer physical pain, emotional rejection, and spiritual separation from God (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34). He lived the life human beings live, but He did so in the way we were meant to live—in perfect fellowship with a holy God (John 8:29). Because He came in the likeness of sinful flesh, He could then present Himself as the final sacrifice sufficient to pay for the sins of all humanity (John 10:18; Hebrews 9:11–15).In order to receive the gift of a full pardon from God, every person must allow Jesus to be his or her personal substitute. That means we come to Him in faith, recognizing that, because He came in the likeness of sinful flesh, was crucified, and took on the sins of the world, our sin can be paid for in full (2 Corinthians 5:21). Our own sinful flesh is crucified with Him so that we are free to follow the Spirit in total obedience to God (Romans 6:6–11; Galatians 2:20). Christians are those who have Christ’s death and resurrection credited to their account, thus wiping out the debt we owe God (Colossians 2:14). Because of this full pardon, Christians daily reckon themselves dead to their own sinful flesh. Since Christ conquered sin and death in His flesh, we can live by the power of His Spirit, who will conquer sin and death in all who trust in Christ (Galatians 5:16, 25; Romans 8:37).
Lastly, here is a link to article #2 by the same folks: What Is The Flesh?
I plan to return a bit later this evening, so I'll (hopefully) see you then (Dv).
God bless you!!
--David
Sorry electedbyhim I did not get back to this sooner .
That verse always struck me as odd in what it is saying until I read this article ( that I will give you a link to) out loud to my wife and the Holy Spirit let me know what the truth was .
Read the article out loud electedbyhim and see what happens .
Nitzevet, Mother of David - The bold voice of silence
He was Israel’s mightiest warrior, revered by friend and foe; yet for the first 28 years of his life he was a lowly outcast . . . The secret story behind the mysterious circumstances of King David’s birth.www.chabad.org
I originally said I was not looking for debate however......
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
Many people have said this is David saying that his mother had him out of wedlock or an adulterous affair.
There are plenty of articles out there that says just the opposite.
Here is where I am at.
This psalm is about confession of sin.
Why would David blame his sin on his mother? Better yet, was he making an excuse for his sin because his mother had him out of adultery?
If that is the case he would not really be repentant for his sin.
Psa 51:4 Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And pure when You judge.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, You delight in truth in the innermost being, And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.
Look at the verses 4 and 6. David is taking complete ownership of his sin. If he was balming his mother (verse 5) it would not flow with th verses 4 and 6
Most commentaries agree David is speaking of himself being born with a sinful nature
I get many people on this forum do not like commentaries and do not use them.
Behold - This interjection always calls one to pay special attention to what follows. It is as if David now sees sin as he has never seen sin before.
In sin my mother conceived me - Note that this is no diatribe against conception. Neither is David seeking to use this as an excuse. David's point is that from birth every human being has the innate propensity to commit sins. His crime was not some accidental misstep but was an outworking of his inherently warped heart, a heart that sprang forth from faulty stock that could ultimately be traced back to Adam.
Paul explained it this way…
We see a similar statement in Psalm 58…
Spurgeon…
Hawkman you said humans are born with a selfish nature. Please provide scriptual proof.
Selfishness is sin, is it not?
4But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born[a] of a woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.(Gal 4:4-5)
Christ’s death redeems them (Jews)who were under the law so that they might receive the adoption as sons.
The promise is of eternal redemption, eternal life and eternal inheritance. None of which could be obtained until Christ himself died and receives the promises himself.
Since Christ was also born under the law, he too needed to be redeemed from the grave to receive eternal redemption, eternal life and eternal inheritance.
12Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.(Heb 9:12)
Christ obtained eternal redemption for himself when he offered himself with his own blood, was raised from the dead and entered the Most Holy Place.
Why did Christ need eternal redemption for himself?
Because, as a man, he too was under the condemnation of Adam. Which means, every human dies because of Adam’s sin. Not because they are guilty of Adam’s specific sin, but because they all share Adam’s same sinful nature.
Death passed to all for all have sinned (in Adam). The iniquity and condemnation of Adam has passed to all humans even though they have not sinned in the likeness of Adam’s sin.
Christ’s death redeems them (Jews)who were under the law so that they might receive the adoption as sons.
The promise is of eternal redemption, eternal life and eternal inheritance. None of which could be obtained until Christ himself died and receives the promises himself.
Since Christ was also born under the law, he too needed to be redeemed from the grave to receive eternal redemption, eternal life and eternal inheritance.
12Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.(Heb 9:12)
Christ obtained eternal redemption for himself when he offered himself with his own blood, was raised from the dead and entered the Most Holy Place.
Why did Christ need eternal redemption for himself?
Because, as a man, he too was under the condemnation of Adam. Which means, every human dies because of Adam’s sin. Not because they are guilty of Adam’s specific sin, but because they all share Adam’s same sinful nature.
Death passed to all for all have sinned (in Adam). The iniquity and condemnation of Adam has passed to all humans even though they have not sinned in the likeness of Adam’s sin.
Did you do as I asked and read the article out loud at the link I provided ? Yes or no .
Not just born with selfish nature but created with it , IMO .
Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Eve found out , didn't she ?
Have you ever seen a baby when someone takes something away from them ? Babies do not have a "sin nature" they have a selfishness that later can be overcome .
But I have seen adults that never overcome their selfishness that God gave them from birth .
Ephesians 4
| 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; |
| 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; |
| 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. |
Yes, I read thru the article and some of the comments.
As for a selfish nature, it still is sin. Humans are born in sin.
I do believe that babies who die, go to heaven.
2 Sanual 12:23 “But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”
Adam and Eve had a selfish nature just as all humans do and Jesus did also . Jesus had all the same human attributes we all have , it had to be .
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Did you read it out loud ?
From your post .
The switch worked, much as Leah and Rachel’s switch had worked on Jacob, and Nitzevet became pregnant with David, her eighth son. Nitzevet never revealed to Jesse what she had done, even when her pregnancy was apparent; therefore, Nitzevet came to be despised as an immoral woman, and her son, David, grew up an outcast in his own family. Again, this is an extrabiblical legend, and there is no way to confirm the accuracy of the tale of Nitzevet.
As I read the account out loud the Holy Spirit confirmed it as truth to me ! It was a supernatural event with me unable to read the account because I was crying and could not stop for a few minutes close to the end of the account .
I did not read it outloud.
It was very hard to get through for me.
I agree this in not Biblical, like the article you posted.
As I read these verses, Holy Spirit confirms to me that humans have a sin nature and are born in sin.
Psa 51:4-6 Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And pure when You judge. Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. Behold, You delight in truth in the innermost being, And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.
Of course the whole of Psalm 51 is David taking responsibility for his sin, repentance and restoration.
I knew this is what would happen ! If you had read it out loud the Holy Spirit would have had you crying as I did !
But that does not mean that it is not TRUTH ! The Holy Spirit was moving on you to show you were reading the truth .
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Yes, when I was reading the verses from Psalm 51. I would not say "move" but illuminate.
For me, I cannot take Jewish tradition as always truth. I mean, they do deny Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
Ok . The Holy Spirit has moved on you in the past , the time you preached in Gadsden . Am I right ?
Always was not my objective . Let the Holy Spirit decide for us .
Moved, indeed.
My point of illuminate was the Scriptures for our sin nature form the Bible, Psalm 51:5 amongst one of them.
As He does in His word.
I agree with this.
However when it comes to doctrine, most of it is tied to the Bible.
Such as human sin nature.
Thanks for the for the fellowship
, we may not always agree but we worship the same Christ :amen .
Praise God.Thanks for the for the fellowship