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OSAS is biblical truth. - Part 2

Your story Bro Mike brings a couple things to mind:

Seems to me we are treat everyone as if they belong to the King...

Isa_55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

His assurance is always.

If you say you believe in Jesus, but you don't believe in his assurance, then what good is your belief in Jesus? Jesus gave us his assurance to build us up, to keep us from falling. If you don't believe his assurance, believe in him but not his assurance, then you are working against yourselves, bringing yourselves to ruin. We have his assurance. Let's spread it around.

I believe in Him.

His grace sustains me and keeps me.

I have faith in God, not in my faith.

However, I will obey what His Apostles have written in the New Testament, and aknowledge their clear admonitions to keep myself from being polluted by the world.

Friendship with the world is enmity towards God.

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world. 1 John 2:15-16

I choose not to ignore the many warnings such as this one as well as have faith that God can keep and guard me.

I choose to stay within Rod and Staff length of my Sheppard, so that His Rod and His Staff comfort me.


JLB

Jesus will keep anyone the Father gives him. If it is God's will that you be saved, then why do you argue that you can resist his will? Who are you that you can resist his will? Are you greater than God?

The only question is, do you belong to him? Does he know you? It's not a question of choice. You either are or you are not his sheep.
 
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Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

Jesus made us aware of the dangers outside. It's one thing to be aware, it's another thing to argue against his assurance.
Non-OSAS is not about arguing against his assurance. If you believe, and continue to believe, you have God's iron-clad promise of salvation. As long as you believe, nothing can take that away from the person who trusts God to make him/her righteous before Him through the blood of Christ. Nothing.

Faith is how that promise is secured, and faith is how it is guarded until the Day of Redemption. No faith--no promise. It's as simple as that.

I don't know about you but I can't control what I believe. I can't say I will believe this today and tomorrow I will believe something else. His sheep believe in him and they will continue to believe in him. Do you believe God can keep us from falling away? Jude 1:24
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.


If it is God's will that you be saved,

That statement is the root problem with your theology.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, http://www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/2-peter/3-9.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-a not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9


JLB

Yes. He is forbearing towards us on account of us. What's your point?
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.


If it is God's will that you be saved,

That statement is the root problem with your theology.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, http://www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/2-peter/3-9.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-a not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9


JLB

Yes. He is forbearing towards us on account of us. What's your point?

My point is one need not wonder if it is God's will or not for a person to be saved.

One only needs to believe that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Whoever means everybody. It's Gods will for everyone to be saved. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

God's will is for everyone to be saved, and not for anyone to perish but have everlasting life.

He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


JLB
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.


If it is God's will that you be saved,

That statement is the root problem with your theology.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, http://www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/2-peter/3-9.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-a not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9


JLB

Yes. He is forbearing towards us on account of us. What's your point?

My point is one need not wonder if it is God's will or not for a person to be saved.

One only needs to believe that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Whoever means everybody. It's Gods will for everyone to be saved. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

God's will is for everyone to be saved, and not for anyone to perish but have everlasting life.

He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


JLB

It's certainly God's desire to save all men, but the fact is the world is moving away from God. What Peter said is God is forbearing on our account not wishing that any of us should perish but that all his sheep should reach repentance. That's the way I take it.

If it was God's will for everyone to be saved, everyone would believe. But they don't.
 
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Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

You can compare the second coming and the day of the Lord to the flood. Once all of the animals were on board the ark and the door was closed, then came the flood.
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

If it was God's will for everyone to be saved, everyone would believe. But they don't.

There is that root again.

This is a false statement.


JLB
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

Do you believe God can keep us from falling away? Jude 1:24
Yes. No question about it.

When we are weak we run to him in confidence, knowing he can and will uphold us. But apparently some choose to stop doing that and fall away from the staying power God gives those who cling to him in faith.

"5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)

We are shielded by faith. But if we lay down the shield of faith we are longer protected by the power of God for the Day of Salvation.
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

If it was God's will for everyone to be saved, everyone would believe. But they don't.

I am embarrassed this statement was even made. Amazing................ as if everything on earth that happens is the will of God, and Jesus even prayed they will be done on earth as it is in heaven because Jesus had enough sense to know that God's will is not always done.


There is that root again.

This is a false statement.

What Churches teach this stuff?

Mike.
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

Do you believe God can keep us from falling away? Jude 1:24
Yes. No question about it.

When we are weak we run to him in confidence, knowing he can and will uphold us. But apparently some choose to stop doing that and fall away from the staying power God gives those who cling to him in faith.

"5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)

We are shielded by faith. But if we lay down the shield of faith we are longer protected by the power of God for the Day of Salvation.

Its called Grace.

God gives grace to the humble.


JLB
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

If it was God's will for everyone to be saved, everyone would believe. But they don't.

I am embarrassed this statement was even made. Amazing................ as if everything on earth that happens is the will of God, and Jesus even prayed they will be done on earth as it is in heaven because Jesus had enough sense to know that God's will is not always done.


There is that root again.

This is a false statement.

What Churches teach this stuff?

Mike.

Yes. God declares it and it comes to pass. God is our Maker. He is the Creator. He feeds the birds of the air. He clothes the grass of the field. Not one sparrow will fall to the ground without our Father's will.

He has mercy on whomever he wills and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills. God's will is always done. The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. Pr. 16:4 I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the Lord, who do all these things. Isa. 45:7
 
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Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

Yes. God declares it and it comes to pass. God is our Maker. He is the Creator. He feeds the birds of the air. He clothes the grass of the field. Not one sparrow will fall to the ground without our Father's will.

Right Mark, got ya. If God declares it....... It will come to pass. I will be patience though for now if you have ears to hear.

First do this......................... (I Mark am a word of God persons only. I never misquote scripture, I never take any scripture out of context. God's word is the most important thing to me, and I will compare line upon line and I am teachable.)

Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your (concern) Father.

God is not commissioning the death of birds. In fact Jesus said he feeds them, so killing them off would be counter productive.

God has mercy on those he has to judge........ Your Quoting Paul concerning Pharaoh and you need to read the whole thing....... God had much long suffering toward Pharaoh before making him an example. Not God's best plan for Pharaoh, but that is what Pharaoh choose.

I want you to understand two things about your Father in Heaven.

1) Not everything that happens is the Will of God.
2) Not everything God has to do is His will.

Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

God takes no pleasure in the death of the Wicked. It is the Wicked that don't turn from their way, don't take the chance given that brings judgment. God has to judge, or more important what God use to protect, he has to let the enemy in.

Judgment brings entrance to Satan.......... That is how it works, you can almost say that Satan does have a purpose outside of being a butt head. It's more of an advanced topic, but Satan gave Paul fits, and crashed Paul's ship, sent a snake to bite Paul and did his best to take Paul out. Satan even stopped Paul from going to Asia though it was the will of God. Paul then turns around and turns over people to Satan for the destruction of the flesh because of Judgment. Not God's best, but if people don't listen and obey God, then Satan can gain access.

I want you to get this straight........... Your Father in Heaven, does not even plan, or enjoy the death of the wicked. That is scripture.

Lam 3:32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
Lam 3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

We have a case of Judgment here again. Not God's will, not his plan, not his best, God does not allow the enemy to destroy anyone willingly. Not Judas, not Pharaoh, nobody. It's not his will. Because of his Word, and man being stupid, God has to allow the enemy get a place because God will never break his word and is right in His judgments.

Jesus prayed thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven................ You don't pray that if that was already happening. How God runs Heaven is his same will for us here on Earth. God does not have two different wills for two different places.

Why?

Psa 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Here is the problem........... He Gave the Earth to us, and hence why Jesus prayed thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. We mess things up.

There are two different kinds of Words.................. Pay attention.

2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Isa_46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

The first Word is what Peter heard with his own ears. He heard God, but Peter said we have a more sure word of prophecy, the Written Word of God from start to finish.

We can get a personal Word from the Lord, and we have the Written Word that declares the end from the Begging. Nothing will change or cause the written Word to be ineffective.

A personal Word from God is also sure, but conditional. It's not the Written Word, but still God laying out His will and plan for someone. Nothing can change that, nothing can stop that and why Paul talked a lot about running his race. God has his plan, his race for everyone. We are the only thing that can get in the way of that.

He told Israel I am taking you to the Promise Land................. Israel said that God brought us out here to get us killed.

God made Saul King............. but Saul would not be fully obedient and hence the Lord repented for Making Saul King...... The Hebrew word for repent in this case means a long sigh of things not working as intended.

God told Eli that his family would be the royal priest forever........... However, Eli was not faithful and God said......

1Sa_2:30 Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.

the but now was the changed condition on Eli's part. Not God's original plan, but God had enough of Eli.

I can give more examples, but I hope you understand more how God operates and does things.

Blessings.

Mike.
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

Yes. God declares it and it comes to pass. God is our Maker. He is the Creator. He feeds the birds of the air. He clothes the grass of the field. Not one sparrow will fall to the ground without our Father's will.

Right Mark, got ya. If God declares it....... It will come to pass. I will be patience though for now if you have ears to hear.

First do this......................... (I Mark am a word of God persons only. I never misquote scripture, I never take any scripture out of context. God's word is the most important thing to me, and I will compare line upon line and I am teachable.)

Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your (concern) Father.

God is not commissioning the death of birds. In fact Jesus said he feeds them, so killing them off would be counter productive.

God has mercy on those he has to judge........ Your Quoting Paul concerning Pharaoh and you need to read the whole thing....... God had much long suffering toward Pharaoh before making him an example. Not God's best plan for Pharaoh, but that is what Pharaoh choose.

I want you to understand two things about your Father in Heaven.

1) Not everything that happens is the Will of God.
2) Not everything God has to do is His will.

Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

God takes no pleasure in the death of the Wicked. It is the Wicked that don't turn from their way, don't take the chance given that brings judgment. God has to judge, or more important what God use to protect, he has to let the enemy in.

Judgment brings entrance to Satan.......... That is how it works, you can almost say that Satan does have a purpose outside of being a butt head. It's more of an advanced topic, but Satan gave Paul fits, and crashed Paul's ship, sent a snake to bite Paul and did his best to take Paul out. Satan even stopped Paul from going to Asia though it was the will of God. Paul then turns around and turns over people to Satan for the destruction of the flesh because of Judgment. Not God's best, but if people don't listen and obey God, then Satan can gain access.

I want you to get this straight........... Your Father in Heaven, does not even plan, or enjoy the death of the wicked. That is scripture.

Lam 3:32 But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
Lam 3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

We have a case of Judgment here again. Not God's will, not his plan, not his best, God does not allow the enemy to destroy anyone willingly. Not Judas, not Pharaoh, nobody. It's not his will. Because of his Word, and man being stupid, God has to allow the enemy get a place because God will never break his word and is right in His judgments.

Jesus prayed thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven................ You don't pray that if that was already happening. How God runs Heaven is his same will for us here on Earth. God does not have two different wills for two different places.

Why?

Psa 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Here is the problem........... He Gave the Earth to us, and hence why Jesus prayed thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. We mess things up.

There are two different kinds of Words.................. Pay attention.

2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Isa_46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

The first Word is what Peter heard with his own ears. He heard God, but Peter said we have a more sure word of prophecy, the Written Word of God from start to finish.

We can get a personal Word from the Lord, and we have the Written Word that declares the end from the Begging. Nothing will change or cause the written Word to be ineffective.

A personal Word from God is also sure, but conditional. It's not the Written Word, but still God laying out His will and plan for someone. Nothing can change that, nothing can stop that and why Paul talked a lot about running his race. God has his plan, his race for everyone. We are the only thing that can get in the way of that.

He told Israel I am taking you to the Promise Land................. Israel said that God brought us out here to get us killed.

God made Saul King............. but Saul would not be fully obedient and hence the Lord repented for Making Saul King...... The Hebrew word for repent in this case means a long sigh of things not working as intended.

God told Eli that his family would be the royal priest forever........... However, Eli was not faithful and God said......

1Sa_2:30 Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.

the but now was the changed condition on Eli's part. Not God's original plan, but God had enough of Eli.

I can give more examples, but I hope you understand more how God operates and does things.

Blessings.

Mike.

You're looking at it the wrong way. For instance, Jesus was sent to die for our sins. This was God's will. And Jesus submitted to his will. The events that took place were ordered. One thing had to happen before the next thing happened. However Jesus prayed if it be possible to let the cup pass. It follows that God can change the course of events. If God can change the course of events, then why doesn't he? Jesus taught us we can ask the Father in his name but it is God's will in the end. God purposes things to be according to his will. That's not to say we are mindless robots that God moves around. The unique thing about us is we have the intelligence and the ability to see and hear and understand. For instance, the devil is the ruler of this world. God let's him rule. It is God's will. God directs our steps. God keeps us from falling. Indeed he is not willing that any should die. He gives us the ability to see and perceive, hear and understand. It's for this reason that I believe even the wicked can be saved, if they listen to us. We ask the Father, if it be possible, to save some that are meant for destruction. That's why I say if it was God's will for everyone to be saved, then everyone would believe.
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

Mike

Not even a sparrow can fall. This is an event. It can not happen without our Father's will. Regarding Pharaoh, God raised him to destroy him. Everything that happened to him, from his birth to his destruction, was ordered to happen. In fact Pharaoh was ready to let the Israelites go but God hardened his heart. See how God decided what would be. Not Pharaoh.

Sorry Mike. I reject your understanding.
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

Mike

Not even a sparrow can fall. This is an event. It can not happen without our Father's will. Regarding Pharaoh, God raised him to destroy him. Everything that happened to him, from his birth to his destruction, was ordered to happen. In fact Pharaoh was ready to let the Israelites go but God hardened his heart. See how God decided what would be. Not Pharaoh.

Sorry Mike. I reject your understanding.

Exo 10:3~~So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said to him, "This is what the LORD, the
God of the Hebrews, says: 'How long will you refuse to humble yourself before me ...
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

See how God decided what would be. Not Pharaoh.


Of course God decided what to do. However His decision was based of Pharaoh's actions.



JLB
 
Re: OSAS is biblical truth.

If all the verses that are used for conditional security are truly showing Christians that God will toss believers in the lake of Fire. Then will conditional security adherents please disprove all the eternally secure verses?

Lets start with Eph 2:8 for starters. John 5:24 is the dogmatic verse that Jesus spoke on this earth that pertained to the doctrine of eternal security in His word.

John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My Word, and believes Him Who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.â€

Pay careful attention, this is NOT a salvation verse. This is a dogmatic statement of eternal security for the believer.

NoticeThe first two words . When the Lord says, “Truly, truly†in the Greek, this is known as a sentential participle, which emphasizes an important point of doctrine. These two words actually mean, for certain, without a doubt, or indeed. Whenever the Lord Jesus Christ says, “Amen, amen†or “Truly, trulyâ€, it introduces a point of doctrine, a very vital truth of tremendous importance. The Lord Jesus Christ knew exactly what doctrinal principles Satan would attack, and “Truly, truly†is a warning that what was about to be said would inevitably be under attack by the kingdom of darkness. Each time the phrase is used, it introduces a truth that is of the greatest importance, i.e., something we need to pay particular attention to.

Eph 2:8~~For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;



"you have been saved" should read in our English as," you being saved in the past you continue on being saved now and you are saved forever and ever." It is a dogmatic and unquestionable truth from the words perspective.

It is what is called a periphrastic perfect in the Koine Greek and is one of the most powerful and forceful phrases in the Koine Greek. It is when the writer cannot get all the details and the importance of the details in one verbal form so the writer uses 2 verbal forms to get the importance of the statement across to the readers. It offers NO loopholes for the reader.

"saved" is the Intensive perfect/passive/participle of sozo in the Greek. the intensive perfect says, "the Action(saved) is a completed action and continues on forever and forever."

"you have been" is present/active/indicative of eimi. and the present tense says that ," the Action(saved) continues on in the present.

If conditional security is true. Show the readers that John 5:24 and Eph 2:8 do not prove eternal security.

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]53112[/split] by gr8grace Titled OSAS is biblical truth.

Be warned! Legalism cannot stand two things, the doctrine of eternal security and the doctrine of rebound [1John 1:9]. Legalistic thinking rejects the grace of God in favor of a works program to maintain one’s salvation or atone for one’s sins. Becoming a winner in the predesigned plan of God depends on our understanding of all that He has done for us in grace, not on what we think we can do to impress Him or earn our way into Heaven.

Sadly, most of God's grace is unknown to believers simply because they have not learned enough, if any, Bible doctrine. Instead of resting on the fantastic promises given in the Word of God, believers spend their time worrying about inconsequential things. Not understanding the truth causes the believer to waste time and energy, which in turn takes him away from God's plan.

Paul urges us not to receive the grace of God in vain, 2Cor 6:1, and teaches that we are living in the dispensation of the grace of God, during which, by Rev, God has made known to us the mystery doctrine of the Church-age, Eph 3:2-3. As Paul explains in 2 Thess 1:12, so that the name of Our Lord Jesus will be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is imperative to understand that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone, and not by any system of works or adding anything to faith. Unless we begin our Christian walk correctly in terms of understanding, we cannot possibly grow spiritually. As a believer, we cannot orient to the grace of God until we begin to understand His designed plan, our portfolio of invisible assets, the availability of God’s power, and the mystery doctrine of the Church-age.
 
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