OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?

[Nathan]

To me you continue mixing the knowledge of our knowing we are in Christ by our abiding in the same way He walked, with the basis of our kinship which was Jesus' shed blood and our receiving that as the basis of our relationship. That seems to relate to what James said in:
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (Without works do you have a dead faith and are going to hell?)
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (Is he justified before God by his works, and just who punishes them for not abiding and remaining faithful?)

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

I am not sure if I understand you correctly. When we walk in the light, as He is in the light, His blood cleanses us. How does that not relate specifically to abiding in Him?

1Jo 1:5-7
This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

In God(Christ) there is no darkness. Therefore, we cannot 'dwell'(abide/walk) in darkness and 'dwell'(abide/walk) in Him. We cannot do both. It is either one or the other. Only in the light does the blood of Jesus cleanse us from all sin. The blood of Jesus does not cleanse us if we are not in the light, it does not cleanse us if we are walking in darkness.

If your faith(the visible showing of where you are dwelling/abiding/walking) does not have works, then yes - it is a dead faith - and cannot save you. A man is 'shown' as being justified before God by the works he does. You have to see the context that James was writing.

We know Abraham's faith was true because we can see the visual outworking of that faith. So James was saying that if our faith is real, it too will have visual outworking - which we can then see as knowledge of being justified before God.

John said it also;

1Jo 2:4-6
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

Can a person be saved from the wrath of God who does not have the truth in them?

Rom 2:6-8
He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

You do not obey something that is not in you. If you do not have the truth in you, you are not going to obey it, and it is quite clear that those who do not have the truth will have God's wrath and fury.

Jas 5:19-20
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

James is quite clear, those who wonder off from the truth - meaning they leave the light and start walking in a path of darkness - will die spiritually, forever separated from the life of God. This is why someone who brings that person back to the truth will save that persons soul from death - and in the light of Christ, that persons sins will be covered in Jesus blood.

OSAS is a path of darkness. It states that a person receives something for doing something, and that the person does not have to abide in Christ - walking in the light - to be continually cleansed from sin. It goes against so many NT passages.

 

[Eugene]

The blood of Jesus does not cleanse us if we are not in the light, it does not cleanse us if we are walking in darkness.

1Jn5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal (Conditional?) life,

I am not sure if I understand you correctly. When we walk in the light, as He is in the light, His blood cleanses us. How does that not relate specifically to abiding in Him?

I believe you are referencing 1 Jn 1:7,
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
What is the alternative of not having fellowship with Christ? to be cast forth as a branch and men throwing us into the fire? (Jn 15:6)

You know, we continue discussing what you think keeps us saved if I understand you, and your digs at any believing OSAS. I may have missed it in our exchanges somewhere, but have you ever figured what Paul was giving his all in order to WIN CHRIST? (Php 3:8) I do believe if you figure that one out you will realize the difference in trying to not walk in darkness to continued being saved, and that of being in God's perfect will for you life. We are to be running a race as we read in 1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? (What is this prize?) So run, that ye may obtain.
Heb 12:1 . . . let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith (It doesn't appear we are the captain of our ship); who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Well, since Jesus sought that place of fellowship of sitting with our Father in His throne, will we also sit round about & in the midst of Jesus' throne when He receives it? Is that God's will for us?

 

[Nathan]

1Jn5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal (Conditional?) life,

I believe you are referencing 1 Jn 1:7,
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
What is the alternative of not having fellowship with Christ? to be cast forth as a branch and men throwing us into the fire? (Jn 15:6)

You know, we continue discussing what you think keeps us saved if I understand you, and your digs at any believing OSAS. I may have missed it in our exchanges somewhere, but have you ever figured what Paul was giving his all in order to WIN CHRIST? (Php 3:8) I do believe if you figure that one out you will realize the difference in trying to not walk in darkness to continued being saved, and that of being in God's perfect will for you life. We are to be running a race as we read in 1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? (What is this prize?) So run, that ye may obtain.
Heb 12:1 . . . let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith (It doesn't appear we are the captain of our ship); who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Well, since Jesus sought that place of fellowship of sitting with our Father in His throne, will we also sit round about & in the midst of Jesus' throne when He receives it? Is that God's will for us?

The 'condition' is right there in the passage - who did John write to? The ones that believe.

Eternal life is not a ticket, it is not something you own, it is not something you posses, you do not control it. Eternal life is Christ, and John is writing to the ones who believe(in Christ) reminding them that they do have eternal life - meaning Christ is their eternal life. Just look at what he preceded that statement with;

1Jo 5:11-12
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

The life is in His Son, and those who have the Son in them have the life in them ONLY because the Son has life.

Christ keeps us saved. NOTHING ELSE DOES. I really hope that I am not misunderstood about that. ONLY CHRIST KEEPS US SAVED. Paul was giving his all because Christ gave His all for Paul. Its not a matter of 'trying' not to walk in darkness - its a matter of not walking in darkness. The one who walks in darkness is not believing what Christ has done for them.

Sure, they may believe that Christ 'gives' them eternal life - but they are denying the number one reason why Christ came, which was to destroy the works of the devil - to set us free from the bondage of sin. The one who walks in darkness denies that they are free from sin. Now, if they do not deny that they are set free from sin, and they walk in sin, then that means that they are wanting to sin - like actually mentally thinking that it is ok to sin!

John is clear that those people who do that ARE NOT IN CHRIST!

1Jo 3:4-10
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Now, tell me, how many people in Christ - who have the Son, who is life - makes a practice of sinning? John said no one does. He said it was evident that the one who has the Son, who is Life, practices righteousness - the one who practices sin belongs to the devil.

You cannot "believe" in Christ for one thing, and not believe in Him for another. That's a false faith. If you believe He is your eternal life, then you must believe that He set you free from sin - and that you CANNOT continue in sin.

1Jo 2:4
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him

Eugene, can someone who is born again, who has Christ in them, not keep His commandments? If so, then how is John so blatantly lying about it?

The "prize" is the crown of righteousness. It is the right to be able to live with God forever. Its not some 'simple' reward that some people get, and the rest just will drag their feet in despair around the streets of gold. No, the reward for our faith is SALVATION.

1Pe 1:8-9
Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

1Pe 1:13
Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

It really is simple. There is nothing complex about it. If you believe Christ is the Son of God, and you believe He gives you eternal life, then you must believe that He ransomed you from sin to serve Him. You must believe that He set you free from bondage to sin. So if you continue in sin, it is because you are choosing that sin over God.

Sin is of the devil. If you choose sin, you are choosing to worship satan. It is that simple. You can ONLY worship one of two, God or satan. IF you are going to claim to worship God, you cannot continue to worship satan.

Somehow over the years sin has become some 'casual' thing. Good grief! Sin is what the SON OF GOD died on the cross for. He was perfect, yet because He loved us, He took on the debt of sin, and was separated from His Father. And we have the gall to think that sin is 'nothing' to those who have "made a profession of faith"? That is arrogance and pride in its ugliest form.

 

[Eugene]

The 'condition' is right there in the passage - who did John write to? The ones that believe.

Eternal life is not a ticket, it is not something you own, it is not something you posses, you do not control it. Eternal life is Christ, and John is writing to the ones who believe(in Christ) reminding them that they do have eternal life - meaning Christ is their eternal life. Just look at what he preceded that statement with;

1Jo 5:11-12
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

The life is in His Son, and those who have the Son in them have the life in them ONLY because the Son has life.

Christ keeps us saved. NOTHING ELSE DOES. I really hope that I am not misunderstood about that. ONLY CHRIST KEEPS US SAVED. Paul was giving his all because Christ gave His all for Paul. Its not a matter of 'trying' not to walk in darkness - its a matter of not walking in darkness. The one who walks in darkness is not believing what Christ has done for them.

Sure, they may believe that Christ 'gives' them eternal life - but they are denying the number one reason why Christ came, which was to destroy the works of the devil - to set us free from the bondage of sin. The one who walks in darkness denies that they are free from sin. Now, if they do not deny that they are set free from sin, and they walk in sin, then that means that they are wanting to sin - like actually mentally thinking that it is ok to sin!

John is clear that those people who do that ARE NOT IN CHRIST!

1Jo 3:4-10
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Now, tell me, how many people in Christ - who have the Son, who is life - makes a practice of sinning? John said no one does. He said it was evident that the one who has the Son, who is Life, practices righteousness - the one who practices sin belongs to the devil.

You cannot "believe" in Christ for one thing, and not believe in Him for another. That's a false faith. If you believe He is your eternal life, then you must believe that He set you free from sin - and that you CANNOT continue in sin.

1Jo 2:4
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him

Eugene, can someone who is born again, who has Christ in them, not keep His commandments? If so, then how is John so blatantly lying about it?

The "prize" is the crown of righteousness. It is the right to be able to live with God forever. Its not some 'simple' reward that some people get, and the rest just will drag their feet in despair around the streets of gold. No, the reward for our faith is SALVATION.

1Pe 1:8-9
Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

1Pe 1:13
Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

It really is simple. There is nothing complex about it. If you believe Christ is the Son of God, and you believe He gives you eternal life, then you must believe that He ransomed you from sin to serve Him. You must believe that He set you free from bondage to sin. So if you continue in sin, it is because you are choosing that sin over God.

Sin is of the devil. If you choose sin, you are choosing to worship satan. It is that simple. You can ONLY worship one of two, God or satan. IF you are going to claim to worship God, you cannot continue to worship satan.

Somehow over the years sin has become some 'casual' thing. Good grief! Sin is what the SON OF GOD died on the cross for. He was perfect, yet because He loved us, He took on the debt of sin, and was separated from His Father. And we have the gall to think that sin is 'nothing' to those who have "made a profession of faith"? That is arrogance and pride in its ugliest form.

I think I see what you believe is winning Christ of Php 3:8, and that is running the race to be saved as you said: "the reward for our faith is SALVATION."
Thanks.

 

[Nathan]

I think I see what you believe is winning Christ of Php 3:8, and that is running the race to be saved as you said: "the reward for our faith is SALVATION."
Thanks.

No. I do not run the race to be saved, I run the race because I am saved. I believe He saved me, so I run the race based on that belief. I know that He saved me, and that He will save me when He comes again, so I run the race so that I will be found not to have made others stumble in believing in Him.

I have spent ENOUGH of my life as a stumbling block to people believing in Christ - I will do so no more.

The reward for our faith is SALVATION. No denying that. What gets people mixed up is they think that our faith is something that we came up with - something we have on our own. That's not the case. Jesus actually gave a very distinct story that deals with this. Our faith is a gift from God, to us, and how we use that is totally based on how we view Him. When He returns He is going to see how we used that which He gave us. The ones who took the faith, hid it away, will not be rewarded like they think.

Our use of the faith given to us is in direct proportion to how we believe God. Those who use the faith for God view God as their salvation. Those who use the faith for themselves view themselves as their salvation. Those who do nothing with the faith think its worthless, and also view salvation as worthless.

Mat 25:14-15
For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away.

 

[reba]

You are indeed a woman of many words. I'm quoting the 1967 updated notes. Scofield died in 1921 I think it was that I read.

Odd how he changed his notes after he died

 

[JLB]

Thanks for your reply. Are you aware of the inclusion of the words “Who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit” in the KJV version of the bible which attempts to change the context of the words “No Condemnation?” I think I agree with the remainder of your post.

Scofield makes this note on Rom 8:1. The statement ends with "Christ Jesus"; the last ten words are interpolated.
Here is a list of bibles that do not add those last ten words to Rom 8:1.

New International Version
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Are you aware of other verses the NIV and other such translations have left out as well.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7 NKJV

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:7 KJV

For there are three that testify: 1 John 5:7 NIV

6 This is the one who came by water and blood Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 1 John 5:6-8 NIV



The context should be clear, from the following verses in Romans 8, as well as what Paul taught and expounded upon in Romans 6, and all His letters to the Churches, warning them that walking according to the flesh, whereby the person practices the sinful desires and deeds of the flesh, will perish, die, be condemned, will not inherit the kingdom of God, suffer the wrath and vengeance of God on the Day of Judgement.

All these words and expressions are saying the same thing; Eternal Damnation in the everlasting fires of hell.


There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:1 KJV

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1 NKJV

The following passages provide context, for verse 1 of Romans 8.

• that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. v.4
• For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. v.6
  
• For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. v.13
  
• For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. v.14

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:1-14


Paul then makes these statements about this subject in his other letters, as well as other Chapters in Romans.

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23

• Those Christians who choose to present their members a slaves to sin, will in the end reap the wages of their sinful life, which is death.

• Those Christians who learn to becomes a slave to God, by obeying the righteous leadings of the Spirit within to do what is right and good, will in the end receive eternal life.

He says it this way in Romans 2 -

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Look at what he warned the Ephesians of about this same wrath of God.

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7

• Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

• Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Paul defines and gives the consequences of walking according to the flesh.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

again


9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

• Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Here is the biblical definition of a righteous person:

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


The reason a person has the ability to practice righteousness, is because the righteous One Jesus Christ, dwells within them, empowering them to express and practice His righteousness, which is another way of saying "doing what is good", or "loving your neighbor".



JLB

 

[JLB]

Odd how he changed his notes after he died

2

 

[JLB]

I have spent ENOUGH of my life as a stumbling block to people believing in Christ - I will do so no more.

That goes especially for me, Brother!!!!





JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

↑
I have spent ENOUGH of my life as a stumbling block to people believing in Christ - I will do so no more.

That goes especially for me, Brother!!!!
JLB

Is telling those believing in Christ that they may perish a stumbling block or not?

 

[Anto9us]

“Who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit” i

Are you saying, Eugene, that the last part of that verse in Romans 8 is a GLOSS, like some think about the Johannine Comma, and "long ending" of Mark 16?

Boy, I am glad I have the OLD SCOFIELD BIBLE, and not the one where he posthumously changed his notes...

I'm just not sure his notes are CORRECT, like, declaring that the overturning money-changers in the Temple HAD TO HAVE HAPPENED TWICE, for Synoptics and John put it at different ends of Jesus' ministry.

perhaps it was one incident, placed at different chronology by Gospel writers for reasons we - or even Scofield - are not privvy to

 

[JLB]

↑
I have spent ENOUGH of my life as a stumbling block to people believing in Christ - I will do so no more.

Is telling those believing in Christ that they may perish a stumbling block or not?

Speaking the truth in love, turning those who wander from the truth back, will save their eternal soul from death.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death.

On the other hand, deceiving God's people, by telling them it's impossible for them to suffer God's wrath of eternal damnation, no matter how sinful, or immoral they live, is definitely putting a stumbling block in front of them.

• Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7


JLB

 

[ezra]

this is about as good as the old saturday morning cartoons .. osas vs osnas it never ends . we can be secure in our salvation does that mean we can stay in sin and be saved?/???? NO "Romans" 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, { even so we also should walk in newness of life.} how many will honestly say that we walk in the newness of life. all the time? how many Fail God
Luke 6:46 But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

does this disqualify one from going to heaven ? apostle paul wrote
Colossians 3:9-11New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all. this has nothing to do with being a liar ..but rather put off the old man and put on the new man ? what my point is put forth a every day effort ..before i hear or read a i do... have you got angry today? had a bad thought entertained a fleshly moment ?

Romans 5:19-21New King James Version (NKJV)
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

my point is yes we can be eternally secure in Christ But we can not live in sin like our old nature was before salvation? might i add many who do not hold to eternal security . live like hell but yet claim to be saved ? i am not taking either side what i am saying is live our life for Christ the best we can. we do wrong we follow 1 john 1:9 confess and repent .. Jesus warned us
Luke 13:2-4New King James Version (NKJV)
2 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? we all at one time or another either gamble or ride Grace as a crutch sometimes as a excuse :amen2 you can be honest

 

[Eugene]

Are you saying, Eugene, that the last part of that verse in Romans 8 is a GLOSS, like some think about the Johannine Comma, and "long ending" of Mark 16?

Thanks for bringing this up. That is a very good example. I suppose the addition or repeating of the words "
"Who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" from Rom 8:4 and adding them to Rom 8:1 seemingly gave substance to adherents of the "I must do something to ensure my reasoning for No Condemnation."

 

[Anto9us]

I have a hard time accepting that Paul would repeat the exact verbatim phrase within 4 verses of each other.

It seems all manuscripts/versions do have the phrase in 8:4, and only some have the "repeat" of it at the end of verse 1.
Like the Johannine comma, I feel that the REPEAT in 8:1 is indeed a gloss.

I do feel however, that the "long ending" to Mark is valid and canonical.

I guess I just don't see how this relates to OSAS vs OSNAS

 

[Eugene]

I guess I just don't see how this relates to OSAS vs OSNAS

I see it only in the sense of there being entered into God's rest without condemnation and/or condition added.
When Paul experienced all he did in Romans Chapter Seven he said in Rom 8:1, THEREFORE, pointing back to all he said in Romans Chapter Seven such as:
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. <PERIOD
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 

[gr8grace3]

I see it only in the sense of there being entered into God's rest without condemnation and/or condition added.
When Paul experienced all he did in Romans Chapter Seven he said in Rom 8:1, THEREFORE, pointing back to all he said in Romans Chapter Seven such as:
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. <PERIOD
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Excellent to see your input again Brother.

 

[Nathan]

Jude 1:4 (ESV)
For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 2:19 (ESV)
They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.

Revelation 2:10 (ESV)
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
"Is telling those believing in Christ that they may perish a stumbling block or not?"

Speaking the truth in love, turning those who wander from the truth back, will save their eternal soul from death.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

• someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death.

On the other hand, deceiving God's people, by telling them it's impossible for them to suffer God's wrath of eternal damnation, no matter how sinful, or immoral they live, is definitely putting a stumbling block in front of them.

• Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:3-7
JLB

My question was not answered. None of the verses above address losing salvation. In fact, since Jesus promises those He gives eternal life that they will never perish, to teach that one can lose salvation goes directly against what Jesus said to recipients of eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace]

this is about as good as the old saturday morning cartoons .. osas vs osnas it never ends . we can be secure in our salvation does that mean we can stay in sin and be saved?/???? NO

Did Jesus say that those He gives eternal life will never perish, or not? Yes, He did.

Will any of God's own possession (Eph 1:14) "get away with" a life of sin, or not? No, they will not get away with it. They will face God's mighty hand of discipline. And God knows better than all of us how to discipline/punish His children.

There are many examples of believers who rebelled, and ended their lives poorly:
King Saul
Simon the sorcerer
incestuous man in 1 Cor 5
Ananias and Saphira
Solomon