Right. That value verse is found in Rom 2:6-8, "continually doing good". Which Paul went on to prove that no one can meet in Rom 3:9, 30, and 23.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?
- Thread starter Eugene
- Start date
Cygnus
Member
You posted John 6:40...The verse just befor it says...
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
If you can lose your salvation then I suppose yu were never given to Christ.
Believe is the condition for eternal life.
You will have to explain how the condition for eternal life, "believe", is no longer required, in which eternal life becomes "unconditional".
At what point in the life of a person does eternal life go from being conditional on believing, to "unconditional", having no condition anymore?
JLB
The only condition.
I have already explained it, but will do so again.
First, Jesus taught WHEN a person receives eternal life in John 5:24, which is WHEN they believe in Him. So, WHEN one presently believes, they presently have eternal life. Agree or disagree?
Second, Jesus taught that those He gives eternal life (which is WHEN they first believe), they will never perish, in John 10:28. Agree or disagree?
So, the gift of eternal life is unconditional WHEN it is given to those who believe. Agree or disagree?
That's the essence of eternal security; WHEN one believes, they HAVE eternal life, and will NEVER PERISH. Agree or disagree?
Now, please don't ask any more questions in this regard until my questions about agreeing or disagreeing are answered. If there is disagreement, please explain why and provide Scripture that says what is claimed.
At the MOMENT one believes in Christ, He says they HAVE eternal life. That's WHEN. Agree or disagree?
ezra
Member
at trying to keep from sounding like a broken record.... for the most i agree . here is where many have issue with osas doctrine . there are many out not evening attempting to live for Christ . yet they say they are saved eternal security . but when you ask others who teach osas about this. they most usually will say they was never saved to start with. i agree on that part but to then turn around and teach one can never lose salvation . but chose to live like the devil. there is where the controversy starts at. a friend of mine who attends a independent fundamental baptist Church. told me of a man who was a former alcoholic was saved in his church in his latter time. locked him self in his house and drank himself to death. we discussed what could be said .my reply he is in the hands of a just God . i hope you can understand the other side of the fence . i use to be very anti osas... i am still on the fence about osas. i have a know so salvation and i am secure in my salvation . them 2 things i do know
iLOVE
Member
Jesus reminded the world of this episode by pointedly saying, "Remember Lot's wife" (Luke 17:32). Jesus also said: "No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:62).
Question? Was Lot's wife saved and became unsaved?
JSM bible commentary
Question? Was Lot's wife saved and became unsaved?
JSM bible commentary
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My views on eternal security come directly from Jesus' words.
In John 5:24 He says those who believe:
1. have eternal life - that means they have it WHEN they first believed
2. will not come into condemnation - this is akin to never perishing in the lake of fire
3. have passed from death (spiritual) to life (eternal)
These are all the result of believing in Jesus Christ for salvation.
Then, in John 10:28 Jesus said of those He gives eternal life:
they will never perish.
From these words of Jesus, I know that from the moment one believes in Christ, they will never perish.
I'm quite aware of all the scenarios given by those who can't accept this. They usually create a most heinous situation and cannot believe such a person could be allowed into heaven.
But since Jesus Christ died for every sin and paid the debt, how can there be anything we can do that would separate us from His love?
In fact, Paul made the point that there is nothing in the present or future that can separate us from the love of Christ. Rom 8:38
This aligns perfectly with Jesus' promise: I given them eternal life and they will never perish.
ezra
Member
you completely missed my point i am well aware of eternal security teaching do you believe a person can live how they want and still make heaven ? after salvation
The moment when one believes, can they ever die?
Nathan
Member
If I cut my finger off with a saw while cutting wood, did I 'ungrow' it?
Sometimes reverse terminology is not correct and it puts confusion into the minds.
What were the conditions that Jesus gave to those He gives eternal life for never perishing? Nothing. So, to answer your question, the issue of "making it to heaven" was settled the MOMENT one receives eternal life.
Isn't that what Jesus promised those He gives eternal life?
Nathan
Member
No, what Jesus promised those He gives eternal life to is that He will give them eternal life - not that they could take eternal life.
We can receive eternal life from Him, but we cannot take it anywhere. If you leave Him then you are no longer receiving eternal life and you will perish.
He never promised that He would give it to us, then we could take it somewhere else.
Huh? John 10:28 is very straightforward. He SAID "I GIVE them eternal life, AND they WILL NEVER PERISH.
I NEVER said anything about taking the gift. It's ALWAYS been about receiving the gift. Go ahead and check my posts. I've described them as recipients all the time. I've NEVER even suggested that anyone take the gift.
And, the result of receiving the gift, Jesus says they will never perish.
I don't see any relevance here.
Why should anyone think that eternal life is being "received" over a period of time, as your statement insinuates by "no longer receiving"?
That idea goes against what Jesus said in John 5:24 when He said those who believe HAVE eternal life. The moment they believe, they HAVE it. They are not "continuing to receive" eternal life.
I've never suggested that eternal life can be "taken somewhere else". That doesn't make sense to me.
Back to basics. Those who have been given eternal life will never perish. Agree or disagree?
And the alternative position is to say they're saved, wilfully sinning by speeding in their car, sometimes even more than once in a lifetime, confess if they even think of it any longer, and consider that as living for Christ?
Dear brother, with this like so many differences among brethren, I turn to Rom 14:1-2.
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection (Possibly the perfect will of God); not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
ezra
Member
? speeding in their car?
Here is what John 10:28 says.
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28
John 10:28 has a condition, that was set forth in the previous verse.
Is there a reason why you don't post the verse of scripture, and the context, so we can verify what your opinion says, with what the scripture says?
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:26-28
Here we see the condition, set forth again for being "His sheep", and receiving eternal life.
- But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep.
Believing is the required condition for being His sheep, in which He will give them eternal life, because His sheep are "in Him".
Can a sheep become lost; disconnected from Him?
Eternal life never becomes unconditional, as it always is conditional upon believing.
If you disagree, then please give us a scripture, that teaches us there is no condition from God for receiving eternal life in Christ Jesus.
- At what point in the life of a person does eternal life go from being conditional on believing, to "unconditional", having no condition anymore? [Please refer to scripture]
JLB
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God.
Do you think someone driving at 100 MPH through a school zone is living for Christ?
No, it doesn't. Jesus SAID very clearly that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.
No, it wasn't. v.27 describes who the "them" and "they" are in v.28. Which is literally "My sheep". Which means believers in Christ.
I've given no opinion. v.27 doesn't give ANY conditions for anything. It simply describes His sheep.
v.28 also doesn't give ANY conditions for never perishing.
Can a recipient of eternal life ever perish? yes or no
No, it doesn't. The condition for being one of His sheep is found in John 10:9, which is still part of the context for v.28.
"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture."
What does "enter through Me" mean? That's the condition.
Bingo! Believing in Christ is the condition for BEING GIVEN eternal life. And beyond that, there are NO CONDITIONS for any of His sheep for never perishing.
Nope.
This continues to be a misread of the words of Jesus.
He tells us that He gives eternal life to His sheep. And He tells us the result of being given eternal life: NEVER PERISH.
That's not the issue. There is NO CONDITION for any of His sheep for NEVER PERISHING. That's what v.28 teaches.
iow, once Jesus gives eternal life to someone, they will never perish. Agree or disagree?
As I said previously, this is a flawed question. Eternal life doesn't "go from...". It's GIVEN by Jesus to believers. WHEN they believe, according to Jesus in John 5:24, where He said those who believe HAVE eternal life.
What keeps being missed is the RESULT of being given eternal life; which is to never perish.
Why is this clear fact being missed? Why not deal with it?
ezra
Member
do i think they are doubtful ..but then again any one still engaging in sin 24/7 no remorse no repentance ..i doubt they was ever saved. one thing we are good at and that is listing sinsRom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God.
Do you think someone driving at 100 MPH through a school zone is living for Christ?