OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?

[Nathan]

Really???

1 Corinthians 3:15 (LEB) If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.​

Really.

Is this passage speaking of leaving Christ and salvation? I know, I am sure you probably misunderstood. I was not saying the passage did not have anything to do with either Christ, or salvation. I was stating the passage did not have anything to do with leaving Christ or leaving salvation.

 

[Nathan]

If you could possibly leave Jesus...WHO PURCHASED YOU...to the point you are not your own...then you stole Jesus' possession. It could then be said you took, plucked or snatched what Jesus owned and the Holy Spirit sealed....which contradicts the words of the Lord.

Did Jesus purchase the world with what He did on the cross?

Gal 3:13-14
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

So, do those who never believe in Christ, even though He died for their sins, pluck themselves from His hand?

When is the last time you left the place you live, where someone forced you to leave? Each time you get out of there, is someone forcing you, taking you, plucking you, snatching you?

 

[Cygnus]

You don't think Jesus gives people the right to that idea. There is a big difference. Jesus never stated that someone can have eternal life apart from Him, and He never stated someone who believes in Him could no longer believe in Him. You believe what you do based on what you think He says, but if we are looking at only the words He says - you will not find what you are saying.

What Jesus said CAN be true even if someone was to leave. Why? Because if you leave Him you leave salvation and eternal life. Jesus never stated that you can have those things if you are not in Him.

I have not seen one passage posted that said leaving Christ is only leaving fellowship. That is what is assumed. That would be like saying if I left my wife that I am only not in fellowship with her anymore. That's not the case. When a person leaves someone or something, they leave what that someone or something has. Since God is the ONLY eternal being, if you leave Him you leave "eternal" life.

Eternal life exists only though the Spirit in us. He 'gave' us His Spirit. That Spirit is eternal life. It is in His life that we have life. Apart from Him we have no life, even if He was in us before.

1Jo 5:12
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

The bible is about SALVATION.....not about losing salvation. You change and destroy the meaning of the bible when you add to it and force the text into saying what you say. The bible doesn't say....Because if you leave Him you leave salvation and eternal life....It's just not there. The problem is, if it is there you have already left Jesus the first time you sinned and every time there after. You freely sin and freely walk away from Christ each time you sin. I personally see no substained salvation in your message.

 

[Cygnus]

Did Jesus purchase the world with what He did on the cross?

Only the elect.

...now I suppose you'll want to argue over the nuance of the word WORLD...insisting your use of the word WORLD is how it must be used.

 

[Cygnus]

So, do those who never believe in Christ, even though He died for their sins, pluck themselves from His hand?

They were never in His hands to begin with....can't pluck what's not there. Can't pluck feathers from a dog.

 

[Chopper]

Uncle Mark cursed God on his death bed.

Did Mark ever claim he was saved?

 

[Nathan]

The bible is about SALVATION.....not about losing salvation. You change and destroy the meaning of the bible when you add to it and force the text into saying what you say. The bible doesn't say....Because if you leave Him you leave salvation and eternal life....It's just not there. The problem is, if it is there you have already left Jesus the first time you sinned and every time there after. You freely sin and freely walk away from Christ each time you sin. I personally see no substained salvation in your message.

I have never changed the meaning of the Bible. Were you accusing me of that?

I agree, the words of God are ALL about salvation. I am NOT trying to say they are about loosing it. Were you accusing me of that?

Those who do not believe in the word of God will not have salvation - that's the point.

You do not "leave" Christ every time you sin. Where do you find that at?

You do not see salvation in my message because you do not want to. My message is pointing people to the only source of salvation - the only source. What I find others doing is pointing people to something they have done for salvation. What you do is not what brings salvation. Salvation is in God, through Christ, and only in Him. My message is that if you leave Him, you leave salvation. Who are you pointing people to?

 

[Nathan]

They were never in His hands to begin with....can't pluck what's not there. Can't pluck feathers from a dog.

Did He die for their sins or not?

 

[Nathan]

Only the elect.

...now I suppose you'll want to argue over the nuance of the word WORLD...insisting your use of the word WORLD is how it must be used.

Where do you find this? How do you define the world? How come you are not showing any passages with these statements?

 

[chessman]

I was stating the passage did not have anything to do with leaving Christ or leaving salvation.

Oh.

Of course the passage does not have anything to do with leaving salvation. No passage does!

0 Bible results for “Leave salvation .”​

Sorry, we didn’t find any results for your search.​

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=Leave+salvation+&version=ESV&searchtype=all

 

[Cygnus]

I have never changed the meaning of the Bible. Were you accusing me of that?

You changed the bible when you twist it to say you can lose salvation.

My message is that if you leave Him, you leave salvation. Who are you pointing people to?

When you actually present scripture rather than some deluted contribed theology that actually shows you can "leave Jesus", which means..leaves salvation...GET BACK TO ME. In fact, get back to us in this thread.

 

[Cygnus]

Did He die for their sins or not?

Christ didn't die for those He didn't decide to have mercy on. Not all people are of the elect.

 

[Nathan]

Oh.

Of course the passage does not have anything to do with leaving salvation. No passage does!

0 Bible results for “Leave salvation .”​

Sorry, we didn’t find any results for your search.​

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=Leave+salvation+&version=ESV&searchtype=all

:wink

Your right. No passage does state "leave salvation".

You also won't find any that say "you cannot leave salvation".

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........guess then either both are wrong - or one is right.

 

[Cygnus]

Where do you find this? How do you define the world? How come you are not showing any passages with these statements?

World has several meanings. Depends on how its used.

 

[WIP]

Calm down!!! I am hearing a lot of hostility in these replies. Take it down a notch or I'll be forced to lock this thread. Do not reply to this post.

 

[Nathan]

Christ didn't die for those He didn't decide to have mercy on. Not all people are of the elect.

No passages to quote for support of this thought?

So there are some people that God specifically states will never be able to believe and be saved? According to you, does God allow some people into the world and never give them a chance to repent?

 

[FreeGrace]

You don't think Jesus gives people the right to that idea.

Oh, no. I KNOW He gives everyone the CORRECT idea. One who has been given eternal life will never perish. That is eternal security.

There is a big difference.

See above.

Jesus never stated that someone can have eternal life apart from Him

He gave NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life for never perishing.

iow, they won't perish because He gave them eternal life.

and He never stated someone who believes in Him could no longer believe in Him.

Yes, He did. Luke 8:13 - Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Clear.as.day.

What Jesus said CAN be true even if someone was to leave.

What is meant by "can be true"? Of course everything Jesus said IS true.

Why? Because if you leave Him you leave salvation and eternal life. Jesus never stated that you can have those things if you are not in Him.

This is just a huge twisting of what He actually said. What He NEVER said was anyone can lose salvation.

There are NO verses that state that anyone can leave salvation or eternal life. That continues to be the HUGE assumption made by some.

I have not seen one passage posted that said leaving Christ is only leaving fellowship.

Nor salvation, for that matter. But "fellowship" is a biblical concept, while losing salvation isn't.

Again, losing salvation is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. And John 10:28 is a statement about eternal security.

Once given eternal life, no one will perish. That's exactly what He meant by His clear words.

That is what is assumed. That would be like saying if I left my wife that I am only not in fellowship with her anymore.

Another poor example. By saying "left her", of course there is NO fellowship. If you'd said "I divorced her", that would be a different matter altogether. But let's not use an example that offends God.

This is what Jesus said to Pharisees in regard to divorce in Matt 19 -
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

Let's just stay with Jesus' example of a father and his prodigal son. What was lost was fellowship between the two, NOT the permanent relationship of father and son.

That's not the case. When a person leaves someone or something, they leave what that someone or something has. Since God is the ONLY eternal being, if you leave Him you leave "eternal" life.

This is only an assumption. No evidence from Scripture.

Eternal life exists only though the Spirit in us. He 'gave' us His Spirit. That Spirit is eternal life.

Exactly!!! And Eph 1:13,14 tells us the indwelling Holy Spirit is a deposit which GUARANTEES OUR INHERITANCE for the DAY OF REDEMPTION, as God's possession.

How is this NOT eternal security? Seems no one wants to answer this.

It is in His life that we have life. Apart from Him we have no life, even if He was in us before.

Please show any verse that says someone departed eternal life or salvation.

 

[Nathan]

You changed the bible when you twist it to say you can lose salvation.

When you actually present scripture rather than some deluted contribed theology that actually shows you can "leave Jesus", which means..leaves salvation...GET BACK TO ME. In fact, get back to us in this thread.

Are you accusing me of something that I have not done? What passages did I twist?

Gal 1:6-7
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Who is Paul saying they are deserting?

deserting - μετατίθημι metatíthēmi, met-at-ith'-ay-mee; from G3326 and G5087; to transfer, i.e. (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:—carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.

If I "deserted" this thread, according to the Biblical definition above, would I still remain here?

 

[Cygnus]

So there are some people that God specifically states will never be able to believe and be saved? According to you, does God allow some people into the world and never give them a chance to repent?

Do you understand the term elect? Predestination?

 

[FreeGrace]

:wink

Your right. No passage does state "leave salvation".

You also won't find any that say "you cannot leave salvation".

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........guess then either both are wrong - or one is right.

Jesus solved the whole issue by stating that those He gives eternal life will never perish. And He NEVER gave any conditions that the recipients needed to fulfill in order to not perish.

Therefore, what is NOT true is the idea that anyone who has received eternal life can perish.