OSAS winning Christ? OSNAS just hanging on?

[Nathan]

You are putting the cart before the horse again, thinking that someone is saved before they believe into Christ.

Frankly, I am weary of trying to sort out your many inconsistencies, which include:

'Sinning is not turning away in the sense the idea is used in the Bible'
God keeps us saved, but we can become not-saved.
One need not do anything to become saved, but once he is in Christ then he must believe
'You can leave it, but it is still called eternal'
Nothing can separate us from the love of God, but we can leave him
a good shepherd brings stray sheep back into the fold, but lets them go if they want to
God saves in Christ, its a done deal . . . but its not a done deal if someone leaves Him

Christ was crucified before the foundation of the world. I assure you, the horse is pulling the cart.

Why do people who oppose what I say always find a way to try and discredit me? Why the personal attacks?

 

[FreeGrace]

Christ was crucified before the foundation of the world. I assure you, the horse is pulling the cart.

So, what happened circa 33 AD wasn't a crucifixion???

 

[Nathan]

I said this:
"Those who never believed NEVER HAD eternal life. Those who HAVE received eternal life will never perish. Because Jesus said so and the verses have been shown over and over."

And I do not understand how your question has any relevance to what I posted.

What, specifically, is not understood in my statements? They are rather straightforward.

First statement:
Those who never believed never had eternal life. What isn't clear about that?

Second statement:
Those who have received eternal life will never perish. This comes straight from John 10:28. Again, what isn't clear about this?

Maybe you missed my post about the biblical word for "eternal" when applied to humans: everlasting. What isn't clear about that?

Do you believe you are eternal like God?

 

[Nathan]

So, what happened circa 33 AD wasn't a crucifixion???

God is eternal. Have you fall for the lie of Satan that you can be eternal like God?

Genesis 3:4 (ESV) 4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.

 

[billybalke]

All you great people on this might like to read the discussion between Cygnus and Billy Balke on the one-on-one, its about the OSAS.

God bless--Billy

reba added the link

 

[reba]

Please write out the scripture with it's contents, for all to examine and discuss.



JLB

CFnet accepts the Scripture reference .. It is accepted to the point we have it set up so the scripture can will be found with a simple click.. A member is welcome to post the scriptures another has referenced ..

2.6: A member may not impose additional rules upon threads by claiming on/off topic or by other means. Moderators will enforce only the rules as included in the ToS and are not obligated to enforce regulations promoted by a member.

Do not reply to this post in this thread..

 

[Eugene]

.
Law and death versus Jesus and life?
There were two major trees in the garden, the tree of knowledge of good and evil I believe to be the ministration of death that killed, and the tree of life as the very type of Christ.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Is God saying here that a person that has sinned could just partake of the tree of life and live forever, and so He had to drive them out of the garden for that purpose alone? Surely with all I read of conditional salvation here, there must have been some hidden agenda huh? Partake of the tree and live forever? My, my, my!!!

 

[JLB]

.
Law and death versus Jesus and life?
There were two major trees in the garden, the tree of knowledge of good and evil I believe to be the ministration of death that killed, and the tree of life as the very type of Christ.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Is God saying here that a person that has sinned could just partake of the tree of life and live forever, and so He had to drive them out of the garden for that purpose alone? Surely with all I read of conditional salvation here, there must have been some hidden agenda huh? Partake of the tree and live forever? My, my, my!!!

Hidden agenda?

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth:

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation

Do these words seem hidden to you?

Which ones will come forth in the resurrection of life, those who have done evil or those who have done good?


JLB

 

[Eugene]

Do these words seem hidden to you?

At the time of God's revelation the tree of life gave life forever. Why else did God not want them in the garden any longer? If today there is only conditional life afforded by receiving Jesus as our Savior, what occurred from then to now to change the rules? Thanks.

 

[Gregg T]

Christ was crucified before the foundation of the world. I assure you, the horse is pulling the cart.

Why do people who oppose what I say always find a way to try and discredit me? Why the personal attacks?

I will be more careful with my wording and tone. My apologies for offending you.

 

[JLB]

At the time of God's revelation the tree of life gave life forever. Why else did God not want them in the garden any longer? If today there is only conditional life afforded by receiving Jesus as our Savior, what occurred from then to now to change the rules? Thanks.

The condition for eternal life based on what you are saying is to eat of the tree of life, as long as they would eat from the tree of life, which is the condition for having eternal life, they would live.

It's the same condition today, as it was then.

If they believed God, they would obey God by eating from the tree of life.

They didn't believe God, because they believed Satan, and therefore they didn't eat from the tree of life, but rather they eat from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

They same condition continued even after they fell, if they ate from the tree of life, the condition for having eternal life, they would continue to live.

• The condition of the rules did not change.

Believe/Obey; eating from the tree of life = eternal life

• For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

If you believe the Gospel, you will obey the Gospel commandment to repent.


If you repent for a while, then go back to serving Satan, then you have fulfilled the proverb; A dog returns to his own vomit, and a sow the mire from which she was cleansed.



JLB

 

[Nathan]

I will be more careful with my wording and tone. My apologies for offending you.

Thank you.

I know that it's hard to understand each other across a platform like this. But some of those things you wrote, that you say are inconsistency, only are such when said the way you put them. I did not put them that way, but I do understand why you think of them that way. Trust me, I have looked at them that way.

There are a lot of things that don't "make sense". First on my list is how the Son of God could die. Not why He died, but how could He die. It's things like that we don't understand, but know to be true.

Your 'list' is a pretty decent collection of good points to discuss with someone. Trouble is, not many are willing to actually discuss them, but rather just want to hold on to the notion of them.

I found in my journey I had to have 'discussions' with myself if I wanted to be thorough. I've explored every nook and cranny of those points, that I know of, but am always open to think about something I might have never thought of before. That can't happen unless someone brings it up.

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you believe you are eternal like God?

Why keep repeating your question. No one is "like God". But He has given me eternal life.

Do you believe that Jesus gives eternal life? Or non-eternal life? Which one?

 

[FreeGrace]

God is eternal. Have you fall for the lie of Satan that you can be eternal like God?
Please stop with this nonsensical question.

 

[Nathan]

The condition for eternal life based on what you are saying is to eat of the tree of life, as long as they would eat from the tree of life, which is the condition for having eternal life, they would live.

It's the same condition today, as it was then.

If they believed God, they would obey God by eating from the tree of life.

They didn't believe God, because they believed Satan, and therefore they didn't eat from the tree of life, but rather they eat from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

They same condition continued even after they fell, if they ate from the tree of life, the condition for having eternal life, they would continue to live.

• The condition of the rules did not change.

Believe/Obey; eating from the tree of life = eternal life

• For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

If you believe the Gospel, you will obey the Gospel commandment to repent.


If you repent for a while, then go back to serving Satan, then you have fulfilled the proverb; A dog returns to his own vomit, and a sow the mire from which she was cleansed.



JLB

Well put. I really think that people view the tree of life as a 'one shot' deal. As if you ate just one fruit of it you are instantly immortal and eternal.

If we would just see how God has designed the world around us, we would see that the things God created with breath have to 'eat' as in a continual fashion.

Jhn 6:54
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

 

[Nathan]

Why keep repeating your question. No one is "like God". But He has given me eternal life.

Do you believe that Jesus gives eternal life? Or non-eternal life? Which one?

Jesus is eternal life, and because He is eternal life, He gives it to those who He is in. We cannot posses it, because if we did then that would put a beginning onto something that has no beginning.

 

[FreeGrace]

Jesus is eternal life, and because He is eternal life, He gives it to those who He is in.

This is backwards. He gives eternal life to those who ARE IN HIM. It is His Spirit (the Holy Spirit) who indwells us. And from that, we are marked IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit of our inheritance, for the day of redemption. Eph 1:13,14

We cannot posses it, because if we did then that would put a beginning onto something that has no beginning.

This would mean that Jesus made a false statement in John 5:24 when He said this: "whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life"

 

[Cygnus]

Why do people who oppose what I say always find a way to try and discredit me? Why the personal attacks?

Some have made the argument that you directly oppose what Christ Jesus has proclaimed and they are simply defending the faith.

 

[Nathan]

Some have made the argument that you directly oppose what Christ Jesus has proclaimed and they are simply defending the faith.

Directly oppose? How so?

I've found that people are very quick to judge others. Many accusations have been made, but with nothing to back them up.

I have never directly opposed what Christ has proclaimed, and am defending the faith that was once and for all given to us.

 

[Nathan]

This is backwards. He gives eternal life to those who ARE IN HIM. It is His Spirit (the Holy Spirit) who indwells us. And from that, we are marked IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit of our inheritance, for the day of redemption. Eph 1:13,14



This would mean that Jesus made a false statement in John 5:24 when He said this: "whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life"

The Spirit in us is His life. That is the "eternal life" that He gives us.

Jhn 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Rom 8:10
But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1Co 15:45
Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

No, Jesus never made a false statement. The person who does hear His words, and does believe in Him who sent Jesus, does have eternal life. It is a promise. A person cannot hear Him or believe in Him unless the Spirit of God is in him. If the Spirit of God is in you, you have eternal life.