Our Jewish Brethren

[Jethro Bodine]

What a beautiful and precious people believing Jews are. My heart is really becoming tender towards them. I honestly can't think of a more inspiring and genuine people than the faithful remnant of God's people Israel alive and well in the world today whose ancestors fill the pages of the Bible we Christians cherish so much. What a miracle that they know the truth and recognize their Christ, their Messiah and serve him with full hearts.

This isn't a thread about the law and it's place among believers. Share your thoughts and feelings about the remnant of God's earthly nation of Israel and what they mean to you.

 

[Danus]

I'm not sure I follow you JB. Practicing Jews do not recognize Christ as the messiah and those who do are Christians. True Israel today are those in Christ.


Paul made several statements: “But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly†(Romans 2:25-29), “and if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed†(Galatians 3:29).

From these and other passages, Gentiles need to realize that to become a Christian IS to become a Jew, to become the continuing chosen covenant people of God. The Ceremonial law is ended (Colossians 2:14) and there is no more need or significance to sacrifices or ceremonies. The Abrahamic Covenant is now open to all who believe, Jew and Gentile. The church is the True Israel of God, so long as their faith is alive.

ref: http://www.everlastingcovenant.com/article.php?id=209#true Israel

This might be what your driving at, but I'm not sure.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm not sure I follow you JB. Practicing Jews do not recognize Christ as the messiah and those who do are Christians.

Jews who recognize Jesus as the Messiah are still Jewish, just as I'm still an American, probably of European descent, but who now recognizes the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

True Israel today are those in Christ.

No doubt about it. But for the sake of this thread I'm talking about literal Jewish people who believe in Jesus Christ.

We know one day the whole of Israel will be in Christ. For now God preserves a believing remnant who love and worship him in Spirit and in truth, just as we gentiles do.

...Gentiles need to realize that to become a Christian IS to become a Jew, to become the continuing chosen covenant people of God.

And some people who have done that are in fact natural Jews. Which to me is especially meaningful, more and more. After all, it is with the Jewish race that God has wrung his hands in frustration and grief, not us gentiles. How wonderful it is to know their are Jews who know and worship Christ.

The Abrahamic Covenant is now open to all who believe, Jew and Gentile. The church is the True Israel of God, so long as their faith is alive.

This might be what your driving at, but I'm not sure.

I'm not driving at any of this. I just want to hear people's thoughts and feelings about natural Jews, the natural descendants of the Patriarchs, who believe in Jesus and comprise the modern day remnant of the natural people of the nation of Israel--the remnant God has always preserved for himself. I'm not one of them. I am an American who now believes, and who has no known connection to the natural lineage of the twelve tribes of Israel. I don't want this to be a theological debate as interesting as that is.

 

[Danus]

I don't see the Jews as a race of people by blood. I define Jew as someone who practices the Jewish religion, but I see Christianity as an extension of the Jewish religion into what is true Israel.

Blood line alone is not what makes a person Jewish. There is no Jewish DNA as I see it.

 

[Hitch]

'Jews are like everyone else only more so. ooops I cant say that because it implies everyone else is like jews only less so'

Dave Berg, My Friend God, '68 ?

 

[celo]

Well I'm Jewish, so thanks! I always was confused by any animosity between
the two, as you so eloquently stated how similar we are.


I don't really believe or disbelieve in Jesus though.... and I don't know many fellow Jews who do. I'm sure they are out there though.

I'd be lying if I didn't find your idea of the "new Israel" interesting.... What do you mean by that?

 

[Danus]

Well I'm Jewish, so thanks! I always was confused by any animosity between
the two, as you so eloquently stated how similar we are.


I don't really believe or disbelieve in Jesus though.... and I don't know many fellow Jews who do. I'm sure they are out there though.

I'd be lying if I didn't find your idea of the "new Israel" interesting.... What do you mean by that?

celo, are you asking me or JB?

 

[celo]

Both I suppose.

 

[Danus]

That was quick.

well, these are my words; the Christian faith/religion was born as an extension of the Jewish faith/religion.

Where Christians and Jews differ today is on Christ. Christians recognize Christ as the messiah. practicing Jews today do not. It's one thing to acknowledged Christ as existed , but quite another to recognize him as the messiah.

So, Christians would say that the law was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Therefore Christ is Israel and anyone who trust/believes in Christ is true Israel. Israel is not a land mass, or country but is embodied in Christ, and those who are in Christ are subsequently t true Israel.

That's the short of it.

 

[celo]

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification...I thought you meant literal Israel.

So basically the main difference between us is in accepting Christ as the Messiah? And also I suppose you can eat pork and drive a car on Saturday , both of which I already do lol, I'm not the best Jew in the world.

One other question. If Christians are right, am I still going to Hell? Or will I have a chance pending new developments, (ie, being told flat out I was wrong outside the gates of Heaven/Hell). The way I see it, I'm still following God's commandments....just not his "updated" version.

 

[Danus]

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification...I thought you meant literal Israel.

So basically the main difference between us is in accepting Christ as the Messiah? And also I suppose you can eat pork and drive a car on Saturday , both of which I already do lol, I'm not the best Jew in the world.

One other question. If Christians are right, am I still going to Hell? Or will I have a chance pending new developments, (ie, being told flat out I was wrong outside the gates of Heaven/Hell). The way I see it, I'm still following God's commandments....just not his "updated" version.

...well first off I'm not the best Christian either. I was once told this and my response was; "you should have seen me before I was saved. No one is a "good' Christian but Christ. keep in mind, Jesus was Jewish. his disciples where Jewish. The first Christians where mostly Jewish.

2nd, I can't answer your question on hell in regards to your destination, although I know you can find Christians wearing the christian badge who will answer you on that. Sounds like you may have already run into them.

Christ is God. So as I see it trusting in Christ is trusting in God. Christ is God in the flesh here to save us. It does not sound like you are keeping the law anyway.... and again the message we have is that the law was fulfilled in Christ.

I can perhaps help you with that part if you want.

Lastly, Christians are not "right" Christ was right about who he is. I think you might find the answers there. But, It does not mean a thing for me to say that to you. You have to answer that between you and God.

 

[ivorhughjarse]

Are all the covenants made by God to the Jews ended? even the everlasting ones? has God finished with the nation of Israel completely? Is the God of the Hebrews the same God that Christians worship?

The nation of Israel are his firstborn, they sinned many times, they repented and He returned them. Is it now the Gentile in the place of the Jew and will it be for all time? Does God abandon his first fruits?

I really do struggle with Christian replacement theology not in relation to the Jew but to how it relates to God, His word being true and the issue of abandonment. It would be wonderful to be the firstborn but we as Christians are not...a place was made in the vine for us to be grafted in and yet we act as if that were not the case

 

[ChristianNationalist]

Jews are not a race, Semites are a race. Jews who recognize Jesus Christ cease to be Jewish though they are still Semites.

 

[Levi]

...... Jews who recognize Jesus Christ cease to be Jewish though they are still Semites.

No not so! The correct terminology is "Messianic Jew" for those in Judaism who believe upon Jesus.

Neither Paul nor any of the apostles preached against continuing in the Judaic practices, in fact quite the opposite. Paul would shave his head when taking a vow and he would observe the holy days and the requirements of the law when with his Jewish brethren.

Its a misnomer that one jot or one title of the law has been done away with.

"blessed is a teacher of the law when he comes to salvation, for he is like a storekeeper who is able to draw from the old and the new"

Jesus never voided any part of Judaism, He only made it possible for the gentile to be grafted into the tree by grace and He made it clear that it is not the observance of the law that makes a man righteous but rather by faith he is saved.

The law still stands.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

No not so! The correct terminology is "Messianic Jew" for those in Judaism who believe upon Jesus.

Neither Paul nor any of the apostles preached against continuing in the Judaic practices, in fact quite the opposite. Paul would shave his head when taking a vow and he would observe the holy days and the requirements of the law when with his Jewish brethren.

Its a misnomer that one jot or one title of the law has been done away with.

"blessed is a teacher of the law when he comes to salvation, for he is like a storekeeper who is able to draw from the old and the new"

Jesus never voided any part of Judaism, He only made it possible for the gentile to be grafted into the tree by grace and He made it clear that it is not the observance of the law that makes a man righteous but rather by faith he is saved.

The law still stands.

You do have a point there. Jews, while not a race, are an ethnicity separate from other Semitic peoples such as Arabs. I still don't agree with the OP's premice that Jews are somehow better than Gentiles. All who accept JC are equal in our Christian faith and God no longer has a chosen people.

 

[jasoncran]

kosher laws and the law was given to whom?

and why didnt the YHWH and paul and the church in acts 15 demand obediance to the law?

so we should slay the modern amekelites or philistines if so found?

also which is the way of repentence?

animal blood or the blood of christ?

finally I'm jewish myself but i dont follow the kosher laws.

 

[jasoncran]

to the christians the idea of a replacement of isreal isnt in the bible.

we call god by their name!he isnt odin,nor allah but YHWH and also other variations.

to celo. i understand fully why you feel this way. my family doesnt talk to me on faith as im the enemy in a sense.those that arent jewish dont understand.

i cant get my father to talk to me about the torah and the ways of judaism longer then five minutes even though he doesnt practice it.

first off any jew will say that its possible for a gentile to convert and beco,me a jew. its not required but they do allow it and its a lengthy process.

man read why god told the jews in the books of hosea that he would go to the gentiles.

 

[Danus]

For the benefit of everyone and to clarify.......


Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. All the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel can be divided into two camps: either the church is a continuation of Israel (replacement/covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are “spiritualized†or “allegorized†into promises of God's blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?


You can read the rest here on the other view. http://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html

 

[Levi]

For hundreds of years the ten commandments have been taught by Christians to the children.

Jesus also stated the first and the second commandments as "summing up the entire law and the prophets" That was a powerful statement that he made.

Many of the religious rules that are observed by Jews are in fact interpretations and regulations.

But that's not saying if a believing man wants to follow such things because his conscience demands it of him and to him all other things are a sin, that we should somehow try and dissuade him! that would be paramount to us leading a brother into sin and causing him to fall.

Paul is quite plain about this when he speaks of eating meat, to one man it is not a sin to another it is.

not everyone has been given the same measure of faith.

God put paid to other aspects of Judaism such as killing gentiles or Philistines when He cast Israel from the land and the Jews had to live under foreign rulers and abide by the laws of the lands they found themselves in.

The Apostles didn't yoke the gentiles with Judaism as they where Spirit filled and inspired

"This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." Heb 10:16

The Christian has the law within him as he has the Spirit of God.

Acts 15:19

“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

and in later years we have the law of Moses in our Bibles.

If a man believes he is sinning then he is sinning.

The law still stands, the penalty for trespass of the law is paid for those who believe, But non the less it still stands.

 

[jasoncran]

so when jesus said this?"

do as the pharisees bid for they sit in moses seat, but not as they do? we should do all the feasts?

a command to look back to isreal's past. im for that i have done that already in parts but im not laying any extra burdens.

so the early church and the sages got it wrong when they basically told the gentiles follow the noahide laws and its good enough?

keep in mind the early church was also mainly jewish and some did follow the feasts but romans 14 gives us freedom. so in order to be saved my step family in my house(one male) must be circumised? he isnt btw.