'Our Right' To Tree Of Life

[gr8grace]

that doesn't support your statement on the white robes and this god gazebo doctrine.

You left it Jason. It is in my original post. You just keyed in on a statement and blindly read over the rest.

Its a choice. And we will have ranks and rewards in Heaven. some higher and some lesser.

Rev 2:14-~~"Happinesses/Blessed . . . {are} they who wash their robes
{refers to rebound (1 John 1:9) and living in fellowship with God},
in order that they may have their right to the tree of life
{only 'winners'/'spiritually mature' have the right to eat of this tree
- see Revelation 2:7},
and may enter into the city by the gates
{only mature believers are allowed In the New Jerusalem}.

 

[jasoncran]

uh no it doesn't.
revalation 2:14
first this is that verse in the ylt

`But I have against thee a few things: That thou hast there those holding the teaching of Balaam, who did teach Balak to cast a stumbling-block before the sons of Israel, to eat idol-sacrifices, and to commit whoredom;

next in context with solo scriptura.
revalation 2:7

He who is having an ear -- let him hear what the Spirit saith to the assemblies: To him who is overcoming -- I will give to him to eat of the tree of life that is in the midst of the paradise of God.

that means what? so the tree of life(which is FOR eternal life) as that goes back to genesis account. most scholars say that the tree of life give eternal life in the garden of eden and that was why god sealed eden from man so that he couldn't live forever.

sorry none of those support your verses.

and for a few other nails.
revalation 3

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis who did not defile their garments, and they shall walk with me in white, because they are worthy.
5 He who is overcoming -- this one -- shall be arrayed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the scroll of the life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before His messengers.

12 He who is overcoming -- I will make him a pillar in the sanctuary of my God, and without he may not go any more, and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, that doth come down out of the heaven from my God -- also my new name.

that implies being in Christ to get to heaven. new Jerusalem is the promise to man as we are in heaven and return to the earth or are on the earth in our bodies when it comes to the earth. I wont go into that depth.

what does this mean to you then?

He who is having an ear -- let him hear what the Spirit saith to the assemblies: He who is overcoming may not be injured of the second death.

so a simple prayer and NO change get one to heaven and yet with works one gets closest to god? yet that above
verse says nothing of the sort

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Rev. 22:19-20! "..God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life"

I'm going to presumptuously, shamefully, and brazenly misquote a portion of Rev 22:19 (as per your translation). Watch for the revision because it's somewhat subtle.

"if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take his name out of the Book of Life"

The Greek word that I presumptuously, shamefully, and brazenly translated "name" is actually meros (mer'-os) which doesn't mean name at all; it means, among other things: part and/or portion. In the case of a registry; meros indicates a line, or a space available for someone's name. What I'm saying is: everybody has a shot at life (Rev 22:17). But as it is; only believers actually have their names entered on one of the lines in that book. Everyone else is dead on the hoof.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

In point of fact; only the Lord's sheep have their names on one of the lines in that book.

†. John 10:27-28 . . My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish

Webster's defines "never" as not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not under any condition

The reason that the Lord's sheep will never perish is because of the infinite nature of eternal life; viz: it's impervious to death; ergo: sheep with eternal life are impervious to the wages of sin.

†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There are plenty enough spaces available in the book of life for everyone. However; not everyone will succeed in getting their name in there; and according to Rev 22:19 it's even possible to permanently lose one's shot at it. But the good news is: once someone's name makes it into the registry; it is110% indelible, and thoroughly impervious to deletion. Christ guarantees it.

†. Rev 3:5 . . He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the book of life

Christ couldn't blot someone's name out of the book of life even if he wanted to because not even he has enough power to end eternal life. If it were at all possible to terminate eternal life, then Christ would have enough power to termininate God; and eternal life wouldn't even be immortal let alone infinite.

I've been observing the anti-OSAS crowd for a pretty good number of years on internet forums and they all base their position on the very same faulty premise. They honestly, and sincerely think that eternal life is just as perishable as human life; which tells me that somebody, somewhere along the line, has failed to teach them the difference.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Deborah13]

Kings would set up a Gazebo in the middle of their gardens and that is where they had their parties for the Guests of honor.

So there is no gazebo mentioned in scripture. thanks for your reply.

 

[hhh]

Ecclesiastes doesn't contain a divine world view. It contains a humanistic world view; viz: a world view as seen through the eyes of a man under the sun-- in other words; the eyes a natural man as opposed to the eyes of a spiritual man. Ecclesiastes is a book of worldly religious philosophy which is why so many of its sayings are popular with the anti-afterlife crowd. I do not recommend quoting Ecclesiastes as if it were the110% God...

.

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

The Preacher sought to find acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nais fastend by the masters of assemblies, which are given by one from one shepherd.
And further by these my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end: and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
Let us hear the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecclesiastes 12:10-13

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19

.

 

[hhh]

that doesn't support... this god gazebo doctrine.

.

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and HE SHALL GO NO MORE OUT:...
Rev. 3:12

.

 

[hhh]

.

Rev. 22:19-20! "..God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life"

I'm going to presumptuously, shamefully, and brazenly misquote a portion of Rev 22:19 (as per your translation). Watch for the revision because it's somewhat subtle.

"if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take his name out of the Book of Life"

The Greek word that I presumptuously, shamefully, and brazenly translated "name" is actually meros (mer'-os) which doesn't mean name at all; it means, among other things: part and/or portion. In the case of a registry; meros indicates a line, or a space available for someone's name. What I'm saying is: everybody has a shot at life (Rev 22:17). But as it is; only believers actually have their names entered on one of the lines in that book. Everyone else is dead on the hoof.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

In point of fact; only the Lord's sheep have their names on one of the lines in that book.

†. John 10:27-28 . . My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish

Webster's defines "never" as not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not under any condition

The reason that the Lord's sheep will never perish is because of the infinite nature of eternal life; viz: it's impervious to death; ergo: sheep with eternal life are impervious to the wages of sin.

†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There are plenty enough spaces available in the book of life for everyone. However; not everyone will succeed in getting their name in there; and according to Rev 22:19 it's even possible to permanently lose one's shot at it. But the good news is: once someone's name makes it into the registry; it is110% indelible, and thoroughly impervious to deletion. Christ guarantees it.

†. Rev 3:5 . . He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the book of life

Christ couldn't blot someone's name out of the book of life even if he wanted to because not even he has enough power to end eternal life. If it were at all possible to terminate eternal life, then Christ would have enough power to termininate God; and eternal life wouldn't even be immortal let alone infinite.

I've been observing the anti-OSAS crowd for a pretty good number of years on internet forums and they all base their position on the very same faulty premise. They honestly, and sincerely think that eternal life is just as perishable as human life; which tells me that somebody, somewhere along the line, has failed to teach them the difference.

Buen Camino
/

.

What is the source you use for your Greek interpretation?

.

 

[Elijah674]

I wonder if any know what the word earnest of the Spirit means? 2 Cor.1:22 & 2 Cor.5:5?

Even in Banking we see what EARNEST money as a down payment means. So as seen in the Lords Word He even has a closing time when rewards are given out, at the finishing up of all of His work! Eccl. 12:13-14! Or at Heb. 11:1-2 time!

And these OSAS ones just look the other lost way.

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

I wonder if any know what the word earnest of the Spirit means? 2 Cor.1:22 & 2 Cor.5:5?

Even in Banking we see what EARNEST money as a down payment means. So as seen in the Lords Word He even has a closing time when rewards are given out, at the finishing up of all of His work! Eccl. 12:13-14! Or at Heb. 11:1-2 time!

And these OSAS ones just look the other lost way.

​

Rom. 8:1’s ‘IN Christ there is NO CONDEMNATION’! In Christ means what? To be LED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT! Rom. 8:14 onward & upward!

Then there is REQUIRED a starting point... Acts 5:32
[32] And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

CONDITIONAL!!! All else are are totally LOST! Mankind must be Born Again from Adam & Eve to the last RECORDED name that remains in the Book of Life.
No messing around with doing away with the Lords Word is seen there! Eccl. 3:14 or Rev. 22:18-19!

OK: That is just the starting point! Yet, you can be assured that the lost ones are the large Broadway ones of Matt. 7:13-14 & the larger group ones of Rev. 17:1-5!!

So to have the Holy Spirit was required from Adam & Eve on. OBEDIENCE is the Test! By Obedient faith all of the saved would be tested to see if they would Mature or not. Heb. 11:1-2. And they would die in the FAITH as seen in Heb. 11:13. And then would come up in the first resurrection of Rev. 22:12 & who they all were is also told us in Rev. 22:14 + the others that are there mentioned!

--Elijah

 

[Webers_Home]

.

What is the source you use for your Greek interpretation?

My favorite is the Greek lexicon in Strong's Concordance. Used in conjunction with the Englishman's Concordance, you can compare how a particular word is translated in a variety of contexts; which is very handy seeing as how many of the Bible's words are ambiguous; viz: they're capable of being understood in two, or more, possible senses or ways. Take for example the Greek word apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee) which can mean kill (Matt 2:13) perish (John 10:28) destroy (Matt 10:10) and/or lose (Luke 15:8).

Buen Camino
/

 

[gr8grace]

Kings would set up a Gazebo in the middle of their gardens and that is where they had their parties for the Guests of honor.

So there is no gazebo mentioned in scripture. thanks for your reply.

Indirectly Deb, Yes there is a Gazebo mentioned. It is comparable to rapture, sovereign(Yes, its not in there) and trinity. The words are not directly in the word but the concepts are there.

The word Paradeisos is a Persian word transliterated into the Greek. Rev 2:7

Pardes from the Persians= their gardens,their palaces and their places where they partied(their gazebos in the midst of their kingdoms.)

It meant happiness, bliss, delight, gratification, pleasure, satisfaction.

“Pardes” was even called the garden of the king, or the king’s garden.

The paradise of God = in eternity, in heaven, there is a special park, or a paradise which belongs to God Himself. The tree of life is in the midst of the "park"

Rev 22:2~~in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

The tree of life has conditions attached to it.....overcomer,winner,He who endures, Spiritually mature.Hence the "reward" involved with the tree of life.

On the other hand, the water of life(salvation by Grace through faith) is freely given without cost. If there was a cost involved we could lose salvation. It is FREE at no cost to us....eternal security.

Rev 22:17~~ The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

I wonder if any know what the word earnest of the Spirit means? 2Cor.1:22 & 2Cor.5:5?

The Greek word for "earnest" in those passages is the same as Eph 1:14, which is arrhabon (ar-hrab-ohn'). It refers to a pledge rather than a down payment. For example the ring, the bracelets, and the staff that Judah left with Tamar in the 38th chapter of Genesis as a guarantee he would come back later with a young goat; at which time Judah expected his items returned.

When I bought my home in Oregon in 1988, I had to submit a token dollar amount to escrow called a good faith deposit. Had I backed out of the deal, I would have forfeited the deposit. The purpose of a good faith deposit is to ensure that an assumed-interested party is sincere.

So then, since the Holy Spirit is God's pledge in Eph 1:13-14; then, according to the principles underlying pledges, if God should renege on His promise to spare people who hear and believe the gospel, then He has to forfeit His own Spirit, and the believer gets to keep it, regardless of their eternal destiny.

Since it would be very embarrassing for God to renege, and even more embarrassing to send somebody to hell accompanied by the Spirit, I'm sure you can see right off that once God commits to someone's salvation; He's obliged to follow through.

†. Php 1:6 . . Being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Elijah674]

.

I wonder if any know what the word earnest of the Spirit means? 2Cor.1:22 & 2Cor.5:5?

The Greek word for "earnest" in those passages is the same as Eph 1:14, which is arrhabon (ar-hrab-ohn'). It refers to a pledge rather than a down payment. For example the ring, the bracelets, and the staff that Judah left with Tamar in the 38th chapter of Genesis as a guarantee he would come back later with a young goat; at which time Judah expected his items returned.

When I bought my home in Oregon in 1988, I had to submit a token dollar amount to escrow called a good faith deposit. Had I backed out of the deal, I would have forfeited the deposit. The purpose of a good faith deposit is to ensure that an assumed-interested party is sincere.

So then, since the Holy Spirit is God's pledge in Eph 1:13-14; then, according to the principles underlying pledges, if God should renege on His promise to spare people who hear and believe the gospel, then He has to forfeit His own Spirit, and the believer gets to keep it, regardless of their eternal destiny.

Since it would be very embarrassing for God to renege, and even more embarrassing to send somebody to hell accompanied by the Spirit, I'm sure you can see right off that once God commits to someone's salvation; He's obliged to follow through.

†. Php 1:6 . . Being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Buen Camino
/

Hey, 'i' do not have time to argue with you!;)

Just teach your thing. Rev. 22:18-19

--Elijah

 

[gr8grace]

.

I wonder if any know what the word earnest of the Spirit means? 2Cor.1:22 & 2Cor.5:5?

The Greek word for "earnest" in those passages is the same as Eph 1:14, which is arrhabon (ar-hrab-ohn'). It refers to a pledge rather than a down payment. For example the ring, the bracelets, and the staff that Judah left with Tamar in the 38th chapter of Genesis as a guarantee he would come back later with a young goat; at which time Judah expected his items returned.

When I bought my home in Oregon in 1988, I had to submit a token dollar amount to escrow called a good faith deposit. Had I backed out of the deal, I would have forfeited the deposit. The purpose of a good faith deposit is to ensure that an assumed-interested party is sincere.

So then, since the Holy Spirit is God's pledge in Eph 1:13-14; then, according to the principles underlying pledges, if God should renege on His promise to spare people who hear and believe the gospel, then He has to forfeit His own Spirit, and the believer gets to keep it, regardless of their eternal destiny.

Since it would be very embarrassing for God to renege, and even more embarrassing to send somebody to hell accompanied by the Spirit, I'm sure you can see right off that once God commits to someone's salvation; He's obliged to follow through.

†. Php 1:6 . . Being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Buen Camino
/

Good post.

2 Tim 2:13~~ If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. We are in union with Christ and are sealed with His Spirit.

 

[hhh]

.

What is the source you use for your Greek interpretation?

My favorite is the Greek lexicon in Strong's Concordance. Used in conjunction with the Englishman's Concordance, you can compare how a particular word is translated in a variety of contexts; which is very handy seeing as how many of the Bible's words are ambiguous; viz: they're capable of being understood in two, or more, possible senses or ways. Take for example the Greek word apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee) which can mean kill (Matt 2:13) perish (John 10:28) destroy (Matt 10:10) and/or lose (Luke 15:8).

Buen Camino
/

.

That's very interesting! I never realized that the Greeks had one word that meant... kill, perish, destroy, and to lose; but they had/have seven words for love.

Thank you for sharing that wisdom with me.

I'm familiar with the Strongs; but I've never heard of the Englishman's Concordance... since the Strongs is Exhaustive, I'm guessing you're using the Englishman's Concordance for the dictionary...

I would really appreciate it, if you could please take the time to tell me the definitions for unicorn, behemoth, and leviathan, in the E.C.?

Thank you again, for the wisdom you've already shared with me.

.

 

[jasoncran]

the Hebrew has one word for axe, blade and stick.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

since the Strongs is Exhaustive, I'm guessing you're using the Englishman's Concordance for the dictionary...

The Strong's has its own dictionaries. The Englishman's is a locator. Here's how it works.

The Strong's Greek lexicon number for apollumi is 622. When that number is plugged into the Englishman's concordance, it will show you every verse in the New Testament where apollumi occurs. The Strong's does this to some extent too; but the Englishman's is more efficient at it.

unicorn

There are Hebrew words that nobody really knows what they mean, nor how best to either spell or translate; and this is one of them. Unicorn can be re'em (reh-ame'); or re'eym (reh-ame'); or reym (rame); or rem (rame) which are all supposedly derived from ra'am (raw-am'); a word that simply means to rise up. The word "unicorn" then is an arbitrary choice; in other words; the translators took an educated guess at it. It could just as easily refer to a wild ox, to a rhinoceros; or to loftiness: who really knows for sure?

behemoth

The Hebrew word translated "behemoth" is behemowth (be-hay-mohth') which is the plural form of the word behemah (be-hay-maw'); which is a word that indicates all manner of brute beasts-- a.k.a. dumb animals-- e.g. cattle, pigs, horses, wildebeests, goats, sheep, deer, elk, giraffes, zebras, et al) first mentioned at Gen 1:24-25.

leviathan

The Hebrew word translated "leviathan" is livyathan (liv-yaw-thawn'). Nobody really knows what it is. The word indicates a wreathed animal, which Webster's describes as twisting in coils and/or having skin with folds and creases; e.g. boa constrictor, python, anaconda, rhinoceros, hippopotamus, elephant, crocodile and/or alligator.

Buen Camino
/

 

[josefnospam]

I do not recommend quoting Ecclesiastes as if it were the110% God's truth. because it isn't.

When you begin to say parts of the bible are not true or as true as other parts, you go on dangerous ground because EVERY word is completely true and trust worthy.

ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.........2 Tim. 3:16

Ecclesiastes is juts as much a part of the bible as any other book or passage and is for our use and trust in.

 

[Messenger]

I do not recommend quoting Ecclesiastes as if it were the110% God's truth. because it isn't.

When you begin to say parts of the bible are not true or as true as other parts, you go on dangerous ground because EVERY word is completely true and trust worthy.

ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.........2 Tim. 3:16

Ecclesiastes is juts as much a part of the bible as any other book or passage and is for our use and trust in.

Amen! The whole Bible comes right from the mouth of God.
The scribes wrote word for word in the original languages what God wanted to be written!