Our salvation is in Mary

[donadams]

Tes

You are aware that the chapter numbers and verse numbers are not part of the inspiration of scripture.
Equally the boards seen in some churches with nicely numbered lists of the ten commandments are not devinlyinspired.
You will find the commandments as follows:-
Resources
Hebrew/Greek
Your Content
Exodus 20
New International Version
The Ten Commandments
20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor

Yes thats my point! Scripture has no list so why fo fundamentalists demand that graven images are part of the 2nd commandment?

Who has authority to provide a valid list?

Thks

 

[Who Me]

Tes


Yes thats my point! Scripture has no list so why fo fundamentalists demand that graven images are part of the 2nd commandment?

Who has authority to provide a valid list?

Thks

You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Scripture says do not and you do what we are told not to.

 

[Who Me]

No Christian’s believe the virgin birth, Mary was virgin before during and after the miraculous birth of Christ

According to you All protestants are not Christian, as they do not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary.
This puts you at odds with the pope who recognises protestants as Christian.

 

[donadams]

You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Scripture says do not and you do what we are told not to.

I just want to know which one is which, don’t want to be ignorant

Ten Commandments

Ex 20

Scripture has no list (1, 2, 3, etc.) of the Ten Commandments

According to subject matter or context:

First commandment: ex 20:2-6
One God

Second commandment: ex 20:7
God’s name

Third commandment: ex 20:8-11
God’s original sabbath

Fourth commandment: ex 20:12
Parents

Fifth commandment: ex 20:13
Murder

Sixth commandment: ex 20:14
Adultery

Seventh commandment: ex 20:15
Theft

Eighth commandment: ex 20:16
Lying

Ninth commandment: ex 20:17
Coveting

Separating the two about coveting makes sense!

Ninth: Thou shalt not covet Thy neighbors goods.

Tenth: Thou shalt not covet Thy neighbor’s wife.

Agree?

 

[donadams]

According to you All protestants are not Christian, as they do not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary.
This puts you at odds with the pope who recognises protestants as Christian.

What pope?

 

[Who Me]

Agree

NO.
Exdous 20:-
Ten Commandments
20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

It is inter3xting looking at your bias, I had to read your post several times to spot what you missed.
The the command not to make images and to not bow down to them is so clear you have to leave it out to maintain your religion.

 

[donadams]

Did not leave anything out!

Images are not forbidden, worshiping them is.

1st commandment

Ex 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lordthy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thks

 

[Who Me]

Images are not forbidden, worshiping them is.

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:

Just what do you do before Mary and the I ages of saints?

Bow down.
Pray to them.
Light candles before them.

Just what is the difference between what a hindu does and you do?

 

[donadams]

Just what do you do before Mary and the I ages of saints?

Bow down.
Pray to them.
Light candles before them.

Just what is the difference between what a hindu does and you do?

Or the Protestant cowboy kneeling before a cross?

Kneeling and bowing alone are not worship! Worship requires intent and adoration!

Thks

 

[Who Me]

Or the Protestant cowboy kneeling before a cross?

Kneeling and bowing alone are not worship! Worship requires intent and adoration!

Thks

And that is found in both examples.

 

[electedbyHim]

Did not leave anything out!

Images are not forbidden, worshiping them is.

1st commandment

Ex 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lordthy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thks

Images are not forbidden, worshiping them is.

Why would a true follower of Christ even want to have or make an image?

What is the point and motif behind having one?

 

[electedbyHim]

Did not leave anything out!

Images are not forbidden, worshiping them is.

1st commandment

Ex 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lordthy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thks

Exodus 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
Exodus 20:5 “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

H6459

ֶפֶּסל
pesel: A noun meaning idol, a graven image. This word comes from the verb pāsal (H6458), meaning to hew or to cut, which was done to create an idol. In the Law of the Old Testament, the Lord forbade Israel to create such images (Exo_20:4; Lev_26:1; Deu_5:8); for they were an abomination to Him (Deu_27:15). Those who served idols would be ashamed in the judgment (Psa_97:7; Isa_42:17); and the Lord would cut them off from Him (Nah_1:14). The presence of these idols were indicative of the sin and rebellion of the people (Deu_4:16, Deu_4:23, Deu_4:25; 2Ch_33:7). The prophets often demonstrated the folly of these idols: they were profitable for nothing (Isa_44:10; Hab_2:18); they could easily be burned (Isa_44:15); they had no breath (Jer_10:14); and they could not save (Isa_45:20). Idols could be made of metal (Jdg_17:3-4; Isa_40:19); wood (Isa_40:20; Isa_44:15, Isa_44:17); or possibly stone (Hab_2:18; cf. Hab_2:19).


IDOLS, IDOLATRY Man-made images or natural representations worshiped as deities; anything receiving worship other than the one true God. Idolatry is the spiritual worship of an idol. Many idolaters literally serve idols: in ancient Egypt statues of gods were regularly and ritually clothed and fed. Some concept of the worship of a false god, Baal, is given in the account of the contest on Mt Carmel: the priests of Baal cried aloud, they “limped” (rsv) around the altar, they cut themselves with swords and lances (1 Kgs 18:26–29). Baal worship was widely followed by Israel during the period of the monarchy.

Mary is an idol to the catholic church and is worshipped as a deity. I was raised Roman Catholic and witnessed how Catholics worship "sinless mary". The fact that Catholics put more emphasis on mary than Jesus Christ is very telling.

Exodus 20:5 “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

In every catholic church, you will find an sculpture, satue of mary where there is a bench to pray to her and light a candle to her in honor of her and intercessory prayer. Where is that found in the Bible?

Then you have the rosary, a prayer honoring her and pleading intercession. Again not Biblical, more Idolotry.

OP says our "salvation is in mary", this is just not Biblical.

You are making her equal with God and is a heretical teaching according to Scripture, because it is no where found in the Bible.

Exodus 20:5 “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,


Tyndale Bible dictionary. Tyndale reference library (624). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.

 

[donadams]

Why would a true follower of Christ even want to have or make an image?

What is the point and motif behind having one?

Love and prayer equals devotion

Like a crucifix maybe?

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

a meditation on the I wrote

Passion meditation prayer:

Christ is portrayed before us crucified:


Jesus takes all our sins upon Himself and sheds His precious blood for our salvation, let Thy blood fall upon all sinners bringing forth the fruits of repentance!


Blessed are the feet that brought us the gospel of eternal salvation.

Now nailed to the cross, wounded, and bleeding for those who walk not on the narrow road in the path of righteousness.

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed are His knees wounded, and bleeding for those whose sins forced Him to fall.

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed are the hands once only raised in blessing and healing now
wounded, and bleeding for those who resist God’s holy commandments.

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed is His back beaten with heavy scourges so wounded, and bleeding for those who commit sins of the flesh.

(By His stripes we are healed)

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed be His shoulder wounded by the weight of the cross, (truly my sins) as He carried the cross, wounded, and bleeding for those offend Him.

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed His sacred head the incarnate wisdom, crowned with thorns of monstrous pride,

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed His holy face, stricken and
wounded, and bleeding for atheists and those who curse God to His face, and His sacred lips that are blistered with vinegar and gall for the sins of foul curse words.

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed His holy & sacred heart full of love for us men & for our salvation, pierced, wounded, and bleeding for us!

(Oh blood & water that came forth from the heart of Christ as a fountain of mercy for us, I surrender and trust in Thee!)

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!

Passion of Christ strengthen us to know, love, and serve Thee!

The shed blood of the Just cries to heaven for vengeance, but the blood of Jesus and His every wound and words cry to heaven for mercy!

Father forgive then, they know not what they do!

Offer the precious blood of Jesus to the eternal father for each of the most grievous sins of men!

Thks

 

[donadams]

Exodus 20:4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
Exodus 20:5 “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

H6459

ֶפֶּסל
pesel: A noun meaning idol, a graven image. This word comes from the verb pāsal (H6458), meaning to hew or to cut, which was done to create an idol. In the Law of the Old Testament, the Lord forbade Israel to create such images (Exo_20:4; Lev_26:1; Deu_5:8); for they were an abomination to Him (Deu_27:15). Those who served idols would be ashamed in the judgment (Psa_97:7; Isa_42:17); and the Lord would cut them off from Him (Nah_1:14). The presence of these idols were indicative of the sin and rebellion of the people (Deu_4:16, Deu_4:23, Deu_4:25; 2Ch_33:7). The prophets often demonstrated the folly of these idols: they were profitable for nothing (Isa_44:10; Hab_2:18); they could easily be burned (Isa_44:15); they had no breath (Jer_10:14); and they could not save (Isa_45:20). Idols could be made of metal (Jdg_17:3-4; Isa_40:19); wood (Isa_40:20; Isa_44:15, Isa_44:17); or possibly stone (Hab_2:18; cf. Hab_2:19).


IDOLS, IDOLATRY Man-made images or natural representations worshiped as deities; anything receiving worship other than the one true God. Idolatry is the spiritual worship of an idol. Many idolaters literally serve idols: in ancient Egypt statues of gods were regularly and ritually clothed and fed. Some concept of the worship of a false god, Baal, is given in the account of the contest on Mt Carmel: the priests of Baal cried aloud, they “limped” (rsv) around the altar, they cut themselves with swords and lances (1 Kgs 18:26–29). Baal worship was widely followed by Israel during the period of the monarchy.

Mary is an idol to the catholic church and is worshipped as a deity. I was raised Roman Catholic and witnessed how Catholics worship "sinless mary". The fact that Catholics put more emphasis on mary than Jesus Christ is very telling.



In every catholic church, you will find an sculpture, satue of mary where there is a bench to pray to her and light a candle to her in honor of her and intercessory prayer. Where is that found in the Bible?

Then you have the rosary, a prayer honoring her and pleading intercession. Again not Biblical, more Idolotry.

OP says our "salvation is in mary", this is just not Biblical.

You are making her equal with God and is a heretical teaching according to Scripture, because it is no where found in the Bible.

Exodus 20:5 “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,


Tyndale Bible dictionary. Tyndale reference library (624). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.

No not idols no not worshipped

And the icon-o-clast heresy was defeted at 2nd council of nicea 700’s

 

[donadams]

1 Cor 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (on the cross)

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Portrayed / crucifix)

 

[donadams]

Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons—of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new “economy” of images.

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?
Potters field? Pottery images

Zachariah 11:13 And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.


2 cron 2:7 Send me now therefore a man cunning to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, and in iron, and in purple, and crimson, and blue, and that can skill to grave with the cunning men that are with me in Judah and in Jerusalem, whom David my father did provide.

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant ex 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded!


graven or worshiped as a god then these images are forbidden such as the golden calf!

Bowing down or kneeling posture does not equal worship or adoration!

Worship requires intent!
You must have the intent to worship God properly!

Worship requires intent, offering of sacrifice, a ordained priesthood, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!

Bowing or posture does not equal worship! Kneeling next to your bed to pray is that worshiping your bed?

Genesis 23:12
And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.

Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

Bowing a sign of obedience!

Genesis 43:28
And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.

1 Kings 1:53
So king Solomon sent, and they brought him down from the altar. And he came and bowed himself to king Solomon: and Solomon said unto him, Go to thine house.

1 Kings 2:19
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her

Thks

 

[electedbyHim]

Love and prayer equals devotion

Like a crucifix maybe?

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

a meditation on the I wrote

Passion meditation prayer:

Christ is portrayed before us crucified:


Jesus takes all our sins upon Himself and sheds His precious blood for our salvation, let Thy blood fall upon all sinners bringing forth the fruits of repentance!


Blessed are the feet that brought us the gospel of eternal salvation.

Now nailed to the cross, wounded, and bleeding for those who walk not on the narrow road in the path of righteousness.

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed are His knees wounded, and bleeding for those whose sins forced Him to fall.

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed are the hands once only raised in blessing and healing now
wounded, and bleeding for those who resist God’s holy commandments.

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed is His back beaten with heavy scourges so wounded, and bleeding for those who commit sins of the flesh.

(By His stripes we are healed)

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed be His shoulder wounded by the weight of the cross, (truly my sins) as He carried the cross, wounded, and bleeding for those offend Him.

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed His sacred head the incarnate wisdom, crowned with thorns of monstrous pride,

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed His holy face, stricken and
wounded, and bleeding for atheists and those who curse God to His face, and His sacred lips that are blistered with vinegar and gall for the sins of foul curse words.

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!


Blessed His holy & sacred heart full of love for us men & for our salvation, pierced, wounded, and bleeding for us!

(Oh blood & water that came forth from the heart of Christ as a fountain of mercy for us, I surrender and trust in Thee!)

For the sake of the sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

Precious blood of Jesus, save us!

Passion of Christ strengthen us to know, love, and serve Thee!

The shed blood of the Just cries to heaven for vengeance, but the blood of Jesus and His every wound and words cry to heaven for mercy!

Father forgive then, they know not what they do!

Offer the precious blood of Jesus to the eternal father for each of the most grievous sins of men!

Thks

So you need a crucifix to remind you?

 

[electedbyHim]

No not idols no not worshipped

And the icon-o-clast heresy was defeted at 2nd council of nicea 700’s

Sure it is.

You pray to mary through the rosary, you know hail mary and all that.

You also believe she is sinless.

This thread is titled, Our salvation is in mary. That is heretical.

And the icon-o-clast heresy was defeted at 2nd council of nicea 700’s

You mean it was rejected.

That does not mean anything.

You reject what the Bible says about graven images and idols to justify statues, cricifixes and the like.

The Reformers did not see Iconoclasts the way Catholics do.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Blasphemy.

Salvation is in Jesus Christ. Not Mary.

• for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:10-12

Blasphemy according to whom? The people who founded the Church?

 

[electedbyHim]

1 Cor 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (on the cross)

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Portrayed / crucifix)

What is the purpose of that?

Why keep the risen Christ on the cross?