Overcoming lust and building mature relationships in teenage years.

[Carry_Your_Name]

Staying single is a special gift from God, only given to a small number. Everyone else should be married. To choose to stay single is to choose to violate God's first command: Be fruitful and multiply.

We ARE of a small number, we ARE special, God has called us out from the world, and no gift is greater than the blessing of knowing and following Jesus. "Be fruitful and multiply" is NOT a commandment - where is it in among the ten commandments? Did Jesus command us to make disciples - or babies? See, framing this as "God's first commandment" shows a mentality of idolizing marriage life.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Staying single is a special gift from God, only given to a small number. Everyone else should be married. To choose to stay single is to choose to violate God's first command: Be fruitful and multiply.

And if you really take this as serious as a command on which you whole born again identity is contingent upon, then tell me, what about those unfortunate folks who're infertile? Who can't find a partner, either by choice or by circumstance? Whose children passed away young before they can "multiply"? Are you gonna discriminate them as fraud and failures? There's one fertility doctor from Indiana who impregnated hundreds of his patients with his own sperm, and there's the "ballerina farm" influencer who have popped eight kids with her husband in Utah, are those your role model? And don't forget, from the bible itself, there was this desperate outcry from Sarah, Rachel and Hannah - "give me child or let me die!" And ironically, Rachel did die - in childbirth of Benjamin, is that how this "commandment" should be obeyed? Have you not read Gen. 3:16 that it was a CURSE which God had cast upon woman to bear children in excruciating pain? Has it ever even crossed your mind how taxing pregnancy is to woman's body, how much ordeal, trauma and agony she has to go through over those nine months, how much sacrifice in her career and personal lives she has to make, and not even counting the post-partum depression, just so that you can feel satisfied and relaxed by having that "commandment" fulfilled? Woman is made in the same image of God as man's equal partner, she is NOT a breeder!

 

[D-D-W]

We ARE of a small number, we ARE special, God has called us out from the world, and no gift is greater than the blessing of knowing and following Jesus. "Be fruitful and multiply" is NOT a commandment - where is it in among the ten commandments? Did Jesus command us to make disciples - or babies? See, framing this as "God's first commandment" shows a mentality of idolizing marriage life.

A small group AMONG BELIEVERS. He was not talking to the world at large.

"Be fruitful and multiply" is NOT a commandment - where is it in among the ten commandments?

There are way more than 10 commandments. The OT has 613 and the NT has over a thousand.

BTW, you do realize that being celibate invalidates you from congregational leadership, right?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

There are way more than 10 commandments. The OT has 613 and the NT has over a thousand.

BTW, you do realize that being celibate invalidates you from congregational leadership, right?

No I don't, because there were generations of church forefathers, theologians, priests, missionaries, martyrs who willingly gave up the prospect of marriage life to serve God, and you're practically calling them all frauds.

A small group AMONG BELIEVERS. He was not talking to the world at large.

You don't look up to them as gifted individuals. You're discriminating them with no respect.

 

[D-D-W]

And if you really take this as serious as a command on which you whole born again identity is contingent upon

My "born again identity" is based on faith in the finished work of our Lord. Why does everyone think that salvation is based on works???

 

[D-D-W]

o I don't, because there were generations of church forefathers, theologians, priests, missionaries, martyrs who willingly gave up the prospect of marriage life to serve God, and you're practically calling them all frauds.

Paul's words:

1 Timothy 3:2
An overseer, [elder] then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

1 Timothy 3:12
Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.

Titus 1:6
namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.

To the extent those "church forefathers, theologians, priests, missionaries, martyrs" disobeyed these scriptures were not frauds, but were deceived by the Early Church Fathers' idol worship of virginity. That was from the Greeks and Romans, NOT the Jews.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

My "born again identity" is based on faith in the finished work of our Lord. Why does everyone think that salvation is based on works???

Yeah, why? Why did you frame it as a "command", and not just any command, but "God's first command"?

To the extent those "church forefathers, theologians, priests, missionaries, martyrs" disobeyed these scriptures were not frauds, but were deceived by the Early Church Fathers' idol worship of virginity. That was from the Greeks and Romans, NOT the Jews.

Or maybe you're the one who's deceived? Was Jesus married to any woman? Was any disciple a husband of one wife? Were they all deceived? If a peaceful, content celibate life to serve God is "idol worship of virginity", then I'd rather be a worshipper of virginity than a worshipper of marriage. Also, in case you don't know, God's chosen firstfruits of 144,000 are all virgins "not defiled by women", are they all deceived as well?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Paul's words:

Also Paul's words - marriage is a distraction:

But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried [c]cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband. And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction. (1 Cor. 7:32-35)

 

[D-D-W]

Yeah, why? Why did you frame it as a "command", and not just any command, but "God's first command"?

It was the first command given to Adam and Eve together. And it IS a command. God gave us lots of commands. But they are NOT salvic.

Or maybe you're the one who's deceived? Was Jesus married to any woman?

No. But at one point the Pharisees asked about his paternity. That meant HE was considered a momzer (of illegitimate birth) by some. Otherwise HE would have had an arranged marriage during His childhood. (about 8 or 9 years old)

Was any disciple a husband of one wife?

Peter had a mother in law. Mark 1:30
Since NOT being married was considered sinful in that culture, probably all 12 were married.

Were they all deceived? If a peaceful, content celibate life to serve God is "idol worship of virginity", then I'd rather be a worshiper of virginity than a worshiper of marriage.

That is your deception.

Also, in case you don't know, God's chosen firstfruits of 144,000 are all virgins "not defiled by women", are they all deceived as well?

Marital relations are NOT 'defilement." Otherwise God commanded defilement since marital relations are COMMANDED in both testaments. (inside marriage of course)

 

[D-D-W]

Also Paul's words - marriage is a distraction:

But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried [c]cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband. And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction. (1 Cor. 7:32-35)

Of course. And he would know.

We do know from scripture that he was trained by Gamaliel, the grandson of the great Hillel who established one of 2 schools of pharisees in Jerusalem in the first century bc. The other was established by Rabbi Shammai.

From history we know both schools REQUIRED their students to be married to a daughter of the graduate of the other school. So for Saul/Paul to be a premiere student in Hillel's school, he had to be married to a daughter of a graduate of Shammai's school. Whether she died at some point, or left him when he became a Jesus follower, we do not know. By the time he became an apostle he was single.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It was the first command given to Adam and Eve together. And it IS a command. God gave us lots of commands. But they are NOT salvic.

No it’s not. Marriage is not for everyone. If that were a command, then Jesus and his disciples had all violated it.

No. But at one point the Pharisees asked about his paternity. That meant HE was considered a momzer (of illegitimate birth) by some. Otherwise HE would have had an arranged marriage during His childhood. (about 8 or 9 years old)

No he wouldn’t, none of that was mentioned or hinted in the bible. This is pure speculation. His marriage is arranged by God, the Lamb’s wedding is to be held in heaven, not on earth.

Peter had a mother in law. Mark 1:30
Since NOT being married was considered sinful in that culture, probably all 12 were married.

Again, pure speculation without a shred of evidence. Peter’s wife is NOT directly mentioned, just because he had a mother in law doesn’t mean his wife was still around, it was very likely that his wife had passed and he took the responsibility to look after her mother. Nothing was recorded about other disciples’ marital status.

That is your deception.

No, yours. You’re deceived by the prosperity gospel.

Marital relations are NOT 'defilement." Otherwise God commanded defilement since marital relations are COMMANDED in both testaments. (inside marriage of course)

You’re contradicting God’s revelation and accusing God of “defilement”. Marriage is NOT a command, not for the eunuchs, aka celibate singles Jesus taught in Matt. 19:11-12.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Of course. And he would know.

We do know from scripture that he was trained by Gamaliel, the grandson of the great Hillel who established one of 2 schools of pharisees in Jerusalem in the first century bc. The other was established by Rabbi Shammai.

From history we know both schools REQUIRED their students to be married to a daughter of the graduate of the other school. So for Saul/Paul to be a premiere student in Hillel's school, he had to be married to a daughter of a graduate of Shammai's school. Whether she died at some point, or left him when he became a Jesus follower, we do not know. By the time he became an apostle he was single.

If you don’t know, stop speculating. Produce some evidence of such a wife’s existence, regardless of tradition. Paul is not a hypocrite, he led by example, he lived as a single man and he expected his single followers to remain single as he was. Marriage was merely permitted, but absolutely NOT commanded or preferred, because it’s a distraction.