Paganism, Easter, and Christians

[handy]

Well then lesjude...rejoice with Pard and I... for we certainly are not turning away from Jesus but do believe Him.

I do agree with you lesjude that the modern push of the church to view it as a place for evangelism is wrong. It's one of my pet peeves that many churches have twisted what should be "family time", a time for equipping the saints and for the corporate worship of God into a time which people are supposed to bring the "unsaved" in for evangelism.

That's twisted and wrong... but, it has practically nothing to do with Easter. Easter was celebrated in the Church long before evangelism was watered down to "come to church with me on Sunday" and worship services dumbed down to "seeker friendly".

 

[Pard]

And though I agree with both of you, one has to wonder: where will they go instead to seek Christ? I, of course, speak of the person who comes to a realization on their own and seeks further understanding. Society today doesn't have a place for them and so they end up in our services, and perhaps this is why we have Wednesday night service which is less attended and more intense, so that those who wish can still get a in-depth sermon each week.

 

[Sinthesis]

Oh ye of little faith, for thine sakes I shall abstain from chocolate sacrificed to idols.

 

[Hitch]

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

 

[handy]

And though I agree with both of you, one has to wonder: where will they go instead to seek Christ? I, of course, speak of the person who comes to a realization on their own and seeks further understanding. Society today doesn't have a place for them and so they end up in our services, and perhaps this is why we have Wednesday night service which is less attended and more intense, so that those who wish can still get a in-depth sermon each week.

You ask, "where will they go instead to seek Christ?"

I think the whole point of the gospel is that we are to take Christ to them...

 

[jasoncran]

thou foolish gentiles, dost thou not knowest that the hebrews were kosher on peshach?

 

[Hitch]

yea though I walk through the valley without cadbury I shall eat no peeps ,he fills my basket with reeses and my cup runnth over with pieces I will fear no jelly bean

 

[Mike]

So much legalism to add to the Word which doesn't forbid believers from many things that some condemn them for.

Col 2

"16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!� 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."

Yes, I honor Christ in my remembrance of His birth and resurrection, regardless of the unknown dates that they actually occurred. I'm also happy to turn a dark pagan festival around and shine His Light for the world.

 

[John 8:32]

The thread asks if I am going to stop, I stopped around 45 years ago. There is not a selection for one who has already come out of those falsehoods.

 

[lesjude]

So much legalism to add to the Word which doesn't forbid believers from many things that some condemn them for.

Col 2

"16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!� 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."

Yes, I honor Christ in my remembrance of His birth and resurrection, regardless of the unknown dates that they actually occurred. I'm also happy to turn a dark pagan festival around and shine His Light for the world.

Paul is talking about Christians returning to the law of Moses, not pagan practices.
"anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ"
Mixed worship was/is never accepted by God. He is merciful but consequences are quite possible. Christians are blessed at all times unless they do things to curse themselves which allows Satan to come before God's throne and demand his right to carry out the curse. Here is the example of how God sees us. It is obvious that Israel had issues even when Balaam spoke this. However God was not looking to curse but bless until they indulged in paganism. Numbers 25:1-3.
Numbers 23:19-21

New King James Version (NKJV)

19 “God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
20 Behold, I have received a command to bless;
He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it.

21 “He has not observed iniquity in Jacob,
Nor has He seen wickedness in Israel.
The Lord his God is with him,
And the shout of a King is among them.


Numbers 25:1-3

New King James Version (NKJV)

Israel’s Harlotry in Moab

25 Now Israel remained in Acacia Grove,[a] and the people began to commit harlotry with the women of Moab. 2 They invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods, and the people ate and bowed down to their gods. 3 So Israel was joined to Baal of Peor, and the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel.

Here is the NT example:

Revelation 2:14

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.


Please look into the history and origin of Easter. The life you save my be your own.

 

[handy]

Lesjude,

It's ironic to me that someone else here on this forum has said the exact opposite of the texts that Mike shared and you commented on, that they were speaking of the pagan festivals the Colossians were used to, not the laws of God.

For years I've been exhorted to "look into the origins of Easter"...Halloween, Christmas, etc... and I've many "origins" to these holidays. All kinds of people have all kinds of ideas of where these holidays and traditions come from. Frankly, I think the first answer was the best answer... the Church superimposed teachings from the bible over the cultural traditions... thus making what was once a festival for imaginary gods into a celebration of the One true God.

This can be likened to when Paul said to the men of Athens, "What you worshiped in ignorance I now proclaim to you."

What really needs to be examined here is what is in fact being worshiped. The references you bring up show that the children of Israel were indeed engaged in idol worship. They were bowing down to the idol as if it were God Himself.

But, believe it or not, no one engaged in idol worship at church yesterday. No one bowed down before a statue of Ishtar, Eastre or any other pagan god or goddess. What was spoken, praised and sung about was the resurrection of our Lord into life everlasting and the impact of that resurrection on us. This isn't idol worship.... this is the worship of the One true God.

As for the bunnies, eggs and jelly beans... These are long standing traditions that come from middle European nations and come to us long after having any pagan ideals stripped from them. For every "pagan" explanation to these traditions, there are also Christian reasons... Rabbits are often associated with virgin births as it was once believed that rabbits could procreate without sex. Eggs have often been used to explain the Trinity... When I was a little girl, these were the explanations given to me regarding these things.

My point here is that the pagan gods and goddess that these kinds of things were once (or at least we can assume were once) associated with have long since died out in the imaginations of men...except for the neo-pagans who are adopting them, or at least what they believe about them, for their own.

 

[Pard]

Lesjude,

It's ironic to me that someone else here on this forum has said the exact opposite of the texts that Mike shared and you commented on, that they were speaking of the pagan festivals the Colossians were used to, not the laws of God.

For years I've been exhorted to "look into the origins of Easter"...Halloween, Christmas, etc... and I've many "origins" to these holidays. All kinds of people have all kinds of ideas of where these holidays and traditions come from. Frankly, I think the first answer was the best answer... the Church superimposed teachings from the bible over the cultural traditions... thus making what was once a festival for imaginary gods into a celebration of the One true God.

This can be likened to when Paul said to the men of Athens, "What you worshiped in ignorance I now proclaim to you."

What really needs to be examined here is what is in fact being worshiped. The references you bring up show that the children of Israel were indeed engaged in idol worship. They were bowing down to the idol as if it were God Himself.

But, believe it or not, no one engaged in idol worship at church yesterday. No one bowed down before a statue of Ishtar, Eastre or any other pagan god or goddess. What was spoken, praised and sung about was the resurrection of our Lord into life everlasting and the impact of that resurrection on us. This isn't idol worship.... this is the worship of the One true God.

As for the bunnies, eggs and jelly beans... These are long standing traditions that come from middle European nations and come to us long after having any pagan ideals stripped from them. For every "pagan" explanation to these traditions, there are also Christian reasons... Rabbits are often associated with virgin births as it was once believed that rabbits could procreate without sex. Eggs have often been used to explain the Trinity... When I was a little girl, these were the explanations given to me regarding these things.

My point here is that the pagan gods and goddess that these kinds of things were once (or at least we can assume were once) associated with have long since died out in the imaginations of men...except for the neo-pagans who are adopting them, or at least what they believe about them, for their own.

AMEN!

And chocolate is just yummy!

 

[lesjude]

Lesjude,

It's ironic to me that someone else here on this forum has said the exact opposite of the texts that Mike shared and you commented on, that they were speaking of the pagan festivals the Colossians were used to, not the laws of God.
I was sure I was commenting on Romans 14:1-6 which is clearly referring to the Jewish Law. What you refer to is in Galatians and tells them NOT to go back to paganism or a mixture for that matter.

For years I've been exhorted to "look into the origins of Easter"...Halloween, Christmas, etc... and I've many "origins" to these holidays. All kinds of people have all kinds of ideas of where these holidays and traditions come from. Frankly, I think the first answer was the best answer... the Church superimposed teachings from the bible over the cultural traditions... thus making what was once a festival for imaginary gods into a celebration of the One true God.

This can be likened to when Paul said to the men of Athens, "What you worshiped in ignorance I now proclaim to you."

What really needs to be examined here is what is in fact being worshiped. The references you bring up show that the children of Israel were indeed engaged in idol worship. They were bowing down to the idol as if it were God Himself.

But, believe it or not, no one engaged in idol worship at church yesterday. No one bowed down before a statue of Ishtar, Eastre or any other pagan god or goddess. What was spoken, praised and sung about was the resurrection of our Lord into life everlasting and the impact of that resurrection on us. This isn't idol worship.... this is the worship of the One true God.

As for the bunnies, eggs and jelly beans... These are long standing traditions that come from middle European nations and come to us long after having any pagan ideals stripped from them. For every "pagan" explanation to these traditions, there are also Christian reasons... Rabbits are often associated with virgin births as it was once believed that rabbits could procreate without sex. Eggs have often been used to explain the Trinity... When I was a little girl, these were the explanations given to me regarding these things.

My point here is that the pagan gods and goddess that these kinds of things were once (or at least we can assume were once) associated with have long since died out in the imaginations of men...except for the neo-pagans who are adopting them, or at least what they believe about them, for their own.

Do you have the Acts 2:4 experience? If not why not.
Doing what is right in our own sight is never prudent.
How much paganism is unacceptable to God?
The OT Jews tried worshiping God twice that way. It did not work out well.
Exodus 32:1-6, Note verses 4 and 5
1 Kings 12:25-33
Here are the NT references: Revelation 2:14 and 2:20-24
Do you have a leadership position in a church?

 

[handy]

No, I am not in leadership as I am a woman. I suppose I could be a leader of women or children...I have been in the past, under the direction of the male leadership but not now. As of now just being wife and mom is more than enough.

Yes, I have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. As per 1 Corinthians 12:30, I do not speak in tongues, but am gifted by the Spirit in other ways.

Now, I've already addressed Rev 2:14 in that no one that I know who celebrates Easter worships idols. You might accuse them of that, but you would be wrong. Everyone I know who celebrates Easter, celebrates the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ...hardly idol worship. As we serve a God who looks to our hearts, He knows far more about the heart of those who gathered together yesterday to worship His resurrection, than others who make judgments based within the limitations of their knowledge.

As for Revelation 2:20 'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.'

Care to expound exactly what you're getting at here? I don't want to misunderstand you.

Because the question, "Do you have a leadership position in a church?" right after referencing that particular verse could lead one to believe that you are accusing me of being a Jezebel.... and that is something I would like to have clarified before moving forward.

 

[Elijah674]

'i' find NO person mentioned in these passages, yet it does include the whole whore & her daughters who 'Inspiration' says ARE THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH. (in the compliers caps) Bad Mom + the whole of her daughters!

I am reading of late, that the largest denomination on earth is now telling her ex/daughter's to not leave their denomination church's. [HE THAT READETH, LET HIM UNDERSTAND!] (see Matt. 6:24)

Rev. 17:5
[1] And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE [[MOTHER OF HARLOTS]] AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

What does this have to do with easter? 'i' wonder if some might just spot them on planet earth's world TV Easter morning in this late hour of our worlds history???

Hey, note Eze. 8
[15] Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.

[16] And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and [[they worshipped the sun toward the east]].
[17] Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, [[lo, they put the branch to their nose.]]
[18] Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

Do you think that Matt. 24:21 [[ON]] has any bearing for these of today ones??

--Elijah