Parables

[Hitch]

if i bind the devil in your life over a particular sin and command him to go and you also repent and struggle with say porn and the next day or week you fall back into it ? could it be that you also were tempted by him again and fell?

i did that as that same hour i would see a girl in the gym within little on, and then it was struggle, sure we cant hold the devil for every thing.

did you think that the enemy is allowed to do what he does so that we can see the goodness of God and not to be conquered by us.

I think penetcostals are inclined to blame the devil for evil that is naturally within. We are legally perfect when were saved not morally or ethically, we struggle to grow into what we should be.

God lets the devil exist to destroy men so that those that do repent of thier sins see what the goodness of God is.

Could be part of it

that is the purpose of all this allowence of freewill, to let us come to him and love him for what he is. we must see what the opposite (the devil isnt opposite as in equally powerful) is.

I dont believe in free will but thats for another thread

birds in that tree what to do they mean?

Yawn if you're going to say bird symbolize evil start here; Matt 3;16 good luck.

demons

think about that its refered to in i think revalation

 

[jasoncran]

I think penetcostals are inclined to blame the devil for evil that is naturally within. We are legally perfect when were saved not morally or ethically, we struggle to grow into what we should be. Could be part of it I dont believe in free will but thats for another thread Yawn if you're going to say bird symbolize evil start here; Matt 3;16 good luck.

replacement theology, yup i thought so,

and you say only as a calvinist would that the jews are only the ones that would be replaced somehow God loved the gentiles more so.

uh yes birds as symbols not ravens

surely you do see that at times.

and if not then also the horses in revalation that jesus rides in to war must be?

and i'm sorry. i dont buy that the church has conquered the enemy fully yet.

what makes you think that all of suddent that we would be poof satan done and so on when surely that by now we would have men who read their bible and prayed and went forth a conquering.

yes, surely we have men who read the bible and formed new thoughts

you may have heard of calvin.luther, wesley. edwards and others.

the rcc tried and did good and corrupted alot and so did calvin,luther.

started out well and fell. surely by now someone would get it right and did what you say?i mean read the bible and prayed and saw what you say and believed.

it shouldnt matter if it was one or 100 that did that , somehow if by faith they believed what you say and it was true we should have seen the evidence of that in history.

 

[Hitch]

replacement theology, yup i thought so,

and you say only as a calvinist would that the jews are only the ones that would be replaced somehow God loved the gentiles more so.

Once again , wrt Calvin , I plead guilty, the rest of your post I cant grasp

uh yes birds as symbols not ravens

surely you do see that at times.

and if not then also the horses in revalation that jesus rides in to war must be?

and i'm sorry. i dont buy that the church has conquered the enemy fully yet.

Who does?

what makes you think that all of suddent that we would be poof satan done and so on when surely that by now we would have men who read their bible and prayed and went forth a conquering.

If Im understanding you, what you propose is opposite what Jesus taught in the parable. The enemy is growing along side the church, but Im guessing at what you mean.

yes, surely we have men who read the bible and formed new thoughts

you may have heard of calvin.luther, wesley. edwards and others.

the rcc tried and did good and corrupted alot and so did calvin,luther.

started out well and fell. surely by now someone would get it right and did what you say?i mean read the bible and prayed and saw what you say and believed.

it shouldnt matter if it was one or 100 that did that , somehow if by faith they believed what you say and it was true we should have seen the evidence of that in history.

Evidence of what?

 

[jasoncran]

Once again , wrt Calvin , I plead guilty, the rest of your post I cant grasp Who does? If Im understanding you, what you propose is opposite what Jesus taught in the parable. The enemy is growing along side the church, but Im guessing at what you mean. Evidence of what?

the evidence of said conquering the nations and them being a christian nation and not having sin or what not.

the only thing that has been close to that is drum rolls

early america!

those puritians and others started on the right foot, but sin crept in , and even then the murder of witches?

i mean surely people can read and the holy spirit teach the word cant he in spite of the traditions of men?
surely you believe that.

 

[Vic C.]

I just glanced at a couple of posts and didn't really see if what I'm about to say was mentioned. But I want to post it while it's still in my old 54 year old brain. :D

I view that parable as a smaller part of an overall theme. It starts at Mat 13:3 and the picture Jesus is painting for us doesn't seem to be good. Out of all the parables in this larger passage, why would Jesus shift His meaning?

Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

What I see here is this:

The big herb that becomes a tree is His ekklesia. In this tree, the branches are grafted into it (Romans 11). But now comes those pesky birds and in the Bible birds aren't always so nice.

These birds are simply lodging in the already grafted in branches. They are free to leave when they want, since they are not actually a part of the tree.

When birds are lodging in a tree, sometimes they are eating the seeds and the fruit. Now in nature, this can be beneficial if one understands how seeds are moved from one place to another.

I don't think I have to go into a birds and bees lesson, do I? LOL

But now that does bring us back to Mat 13:4 +. Some of these seeds will be transmitted from one place to another, only to be eaten by more foul. So these seeds never do get s chance to germinate. Some of these seeds may fall into places where they too won't germinate, like stony places or sun scorched areas.

Birds that lodge in the branches of trees also do their post digestive thing there, all over the tree, it's branches and it's leaves.

In layman's terms, they poop all over the tree!


This parable is detailing for us unhealthy growth. Large numbers (like in some mega churches) don't always make for a healthy assembly.

God wants quality, not just quantity. :yes

 

[jasoncran]

mustard plants aren't trees! they grow into a shrub but not a tree that is huge, so that ought to tell you

 

[Hitch]

the evidence of said conquering the nations and them being a christian nation and not having sin or what not.

the only thing that has been close to that is drum rolls

early america!

those puritians and others started on the right foot, but sin crept in , and even then the murder of witches?

i mean surely people can read and the holy spirit teach the word cant he in spite of the traditions of men?
surely you believe that.

I have no idea what you're talking about Jason.

 

[jasoncran]

I have no idea what you're talking about Jason.

that the bible and its author can be read and openly sought by the reader and the lord shows his word to be true.

its not that complicated, i read it and learn what it says via the person of God and also whom he ordains to preach and teach.
surely the bible has power that it can via the h.s. correct you.

if not why bother. surely God kept a remant as he did in elijahs time and if take note that in the time of Josiah the law was lost,yet somehow the word was preserved.

so if what you say is true then surely we would see some semblance of that.

i think my position is stonger as we see the Lord using men who seek him and allow that want to be blind, blind and those that come will and those will be small as the statment says.

few be that find the way.

 

[Vic C.]

mustard plants are trees! they grow into a shrub but not a tree that is huge, so that ought to tell you

Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs...

I went with what Jesus said. :yes He called it an herb.


I don't know what your interpretation is of this parable, but I stand behind mine and my explanation of why.

 

[jasoncran]

Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs...

I went with what Jesus said. :yes He called it an herb.


I don't know what your interpretation is of this parable, but I stand behind mine and my explanation of why.

yes i agree with that the church isnt a tree. a herb isnt a tree! that tree describes something else!

think about it. we grow mustard here i have seen them them aint oaks.

 

[jasoncran]

Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs...

I went with what Jesus said. :yes He called it an herb.


I don't know what your interpretation is of this parable, but I stand behind mine and my explanation of why.

this isnt a tree now it in the pic and this is a mustard farm. shrubs and those cant have birds in them can they? not with that size and nest in them often or a tree who has branches.

i see an oak or large cyprus when i read that parable

 

[Alabaster]

Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs...

I went with what Jesus said. :yes He called it an herb.


I don't know what your interpretation is of this parable, but I stand behind mine and my explanation of why.

Every s[ring after a hard winter, my brother-in-law must contend with several new sprouts of beautiful plants of various kinds among his garden that he never planted.

How is that?

The many wintering birds that feast at his many feeders poop seedy matter all over his garden where the seed feeders are posted and hung.

 

[Hitch]

that the bible and its author can be read and openly sought by the reader and the lord shows his word to be true.

its not that complicated, i read it and learn what it says via the person of God and also whom he ordains to preach and teach.
surely the bible has power that it can via the h.s. correct you.

if not why bother. surely God kept a remant as he did in elijahs time and if take note that in the time of Josiah the law was lost,yet somehow the word was preserved.

so if what you say is true then surely we would see some semblance of that.

I havent the foggiest.

i think my position is stonger as we see the Lord using men who seek him and allow that want to be blind, blind and those that come will and those will be small as the statment says.

few be that find the way.

Sorry I dont get it.

 

[jasoncran]

doesnt jesus use the natural things to explain supernatural truths? i think so. having said that and given that pic and also the small herb size of the mustard seed when grown can the church in christs parable be the church?

herbs arent trees at all totaly different things.

 

[jasoncran]

I havent the foggiest. Sorry I dont get it.

i making it simple here.

ok does God have the power to preserve his word and raise up men who will follow him surely as calvinist that perseverance of the saints means just that, he keeps us!
and also what of the idea of irrestiable grace?surely god can also choose you and ordain you to good works.
this doesnt mean that one wont fail or get it wrong but somewhere you will get it!

 

[Alabaster]

Mustard

 

[jasoncran]

really? i got mine from a mustard farm site that make mustard.

and we have them here. i first saw them being raised by him a believing agriculurist who obviosly say them aint trees.

he had a few of them and grew them and had the best mustard, the sun flower was way taller then that mustard herb.

 

[Vic C.]

doesnt jesus use the natural things to explain supernatural truths? i think so. having said that and given that pic and also the small herb size of the mustard seed when grown can the church in christs parable be the church?

herbs arent trees at all totaly different things.

Jason, the focus isn't on the tree, but on the birds in the tree and what damage they can do.

If you continue to read Matthew 13, Jesus goes on to explain the parables in detail. I also think He sums them up rather nicely in the last parable:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

In scripture, just like foul, leaven is not always a good thing. :yes Think of the birds as the enemy. ;)

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

The birds sow the seeds in an disorderly fashion when they poop wherever they please. They do it in the rocks, they do it in the sand, they do it it dry, hot, dusty places. They don't really care where they deposit the seeds nor do they care if they grow or not.

 

[jasoncran]

google this and look at the images and tell me if any are trees and post.

brassicaceae mustard family

none of them at a glance are, and lets also find out if the mustard is the same one i'm talking about as words for things then aren't the same as now.

 

[jasoncran]

Jason, the focus isn't on the tree, but on the birds in the tree and what damage they can do.

If you continue to read Matthew 13, Jesus goes on to explain the parables in detail. I also think He sums them up rather nicely in the last parable:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

In scripture, just like foul, leaven is not always a good thing. :yes Think of the birds as the enemy. ;)

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

The birds sow the seeds in an disorderly fashion when they poop wherever they please. They do it in the rocks, they do it in the sand, they do it it dry, hot, dusty places. They don't really care where they deposit the seeds nor do they care if they grow or not.

i see that but as per a.rogers who taught that the tree isnt the church at all but the liberal apostate one and that birds are the demons in that plant seeds elswhere.

make sense if you look at the mustard as what i'm seein it is.