Parables

[westtexas]

I view that parable as a smaller part of an overall theme. It starts at Mat 13:3 and the picture Jesus is painting for us doesn't seem to be good. Out of all the parables in this larger passage, why would Jesus shift His meaning?



This parable is detailing for us unhealthy growth. Large numbers (like in some mega churches) don't always make for a healthy assembly.

God wants quality, not just quantity. :yes

I'll have to read this chapter with your explanation in mind. I have always thought of this parable in a positive light with the seed being the Word of God and the growth of the church and the birds being welcome, resting guests (I have gone to prepare a place for you). Thank you for a different, interesting point of view.

God bless, Westtexas

 

[Alabaster]

really? i got mine from a mustard farm site that make mustard.

and we have them here. i first saw them being raised by him a believing agriculurist who obviosly say them aint trees.

he had a few of them and grew them and had the best mustard, the sun flower was way taller then that mustard herb.

I think all plants that are classed as bushes can be trained up to be trees.

 

[Hitch]

Jason, the focus isn't on the tree, but on the birds in the tree and what damage they can do.

If you continue to read Matthew 13, Jesus goes on to explain the parables in detail. I also think He sums them up rather nicely in the last parable:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

In scripture, just like foul, leaven is not always a good thing. :yes Think of the birds as the enemy. ;)

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

The birds sow the seeds in an disorderly fashion when they poop wherever they please. They do it in the rocks, they do it in the sand, they do it it dry, hot, dusty places. They don't really care where they deposit the seeds nor do they care if they grow or not.

jhis is what the Mustard seed parable has to say about birds ;Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

there is no mention of any ohter activity certainly not sowing the seed, you're really putting a stretch on here. Leavan was used in Levitial sacrfices so to say ' its not always a good thing' implies something contray to it use here and elswhere in scripture.

 

[jasoncran]

I think all plants that are classed as bushes can be trained up to be trees.

i dont think so, i'm talking a tree is something different. as if we could do that the rose bush could be tree and try gettin on of those to hold up a vulture and i had one that go to over five feet tall.


i have seen them held up by walls or like vines and they couldnt stand on their own.

the base was still small.

its the reverse you are thinking we make bonzais out of pine trees and oaks here.

 

[Hitch]

Jason, the focus isn't on the tree, but on the birds in the tree and what damage they can do.

If you continue to read Matthew 13, Jesus goes on to explain the parables in detail. I also think He sums them up rather nicely in the last parable:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

In scripture, just like foul, leaven is not always a good thing. :yes Think of the birds as the enemy. ;)

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

The birds sow the seeds in an disorderly fashion when they poop wherever they please. They do it in the rocks, they do it in the sand, they do it it dry, hot, dusty places. They don't really care where they deposit the seeds nor do they care if they grow or not.

There is not a word in the parable about the birds planting or pooping.


Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.


Thats all there is,

 

[Alabaster]

i dont think so, i'm talking a tree is something different. as if we could do that the rose bush could be tree and try gettin on of those to hold up a vulture and i had one that go to over five feet tall.


i have seen them held up by walls or like vines and they couldnt stand on their own.

the base was still small.

its the reverse you are thinking we make bonzais out of pine trees and oaks here.

I do think there is a bit of stretching going on in the interpretation on the mustard tree. I did post a pic showing how mighty it can be.

From:
Parable of the Mustard Seed

The birds’ of the air in this parable probably come from the Greek word “orneon,” signifying ”to perceive, to hear.” The tree offers a refuge for His faithful to rest in Him.

A tree, whose large branches offer a sanctuary for birds, was a familiar Old Testament symbol for a mighty kingdom which gave shelter to the nations. The tree represents earthly greatness and refuge to the nations. The tiny mustard seed, growing to be a tree, symbolizes Jesus’ offer of refuge and life in God’s Kingdom.

 

[jasoncran]

that pic a mustard plant? i found in my query that very plants that jesus talked about are extinct!

and those were called wild mustards if recall correctly.

post the source i want to peek at that.

 

[jasoncran]

Mustard Tree Facts | Garden Guides

ok jesus called that plant the smallest of herbs.is a herb a tree?

i dont think so.

A herb (pronounced "urb" in American English and "hurb" in British English) is a plant grown for culinary or medicinal value. Typically, the green, leafy part of the plant is used. General usage differs between culinary herbs and medicinal herbs. A medicinal herb may be a shrub or other woody plant, whereas a culinary herb is a non-woody plant. By contrast, spices are the seeds, berries, bark, root, or other parts of the plant, even leaves in some cases and are only culinary. Culinary herbs are distinguished from vegetables in that they are used in small quantities and provide flavor rather than substance to food.

In botany, a herb is a plant that does not produce a woody stem, or is a plant that dies back to the ground at the end of the growing season. The term herbaceous means either having the characteristic of a herb or being leaf-like in color and texture. A related term is Forb, which means a non-woody plant that is not a grass and is not grass-like. This means that the term forb excludes sedges (Cyperaceae) and rushes (Juncaceae) along with grasses (Poaceae).

"Herb" or "the herb" is also a term for cannabis (some Rastafarians believe it is actually the most correct term).

care to counter?

what is the greek word that the lord used. since i went to the trouble of the english meaning lets look to see what the greek is. then we can be clear on this.

 

[Vic C.]

I'll have to read this chapter with your explanation in mind. I have always thought of this parable in a positive light with the seed being the Word of God and the growth of the church and the birds being welcome, resting guests (I have gone to prepare a place for you). Thank you for a different, interesting point of view.

God bless, Westtexas

The popular interpretation is to see it in a positive light. But when the entire chapter is read, including Jesus' explanation, it's not much of a stretch at all. I just don't see Jesus giving us parables in a negative light, but then throwing in a positive parable and not mentioning it in His explanation.

The entire passage from Matthew 13:3 to the leaven verses should convey one theme. To rip one parable of of the bunch, isolate it and give a meaning contrary to the rest of the parables doesn't do it justice.

Also see Gal 5:9 and 1 Cor 5:6-7 to further understand the whole of these parables.

It may seem a stretch to some, but when viewing this chapter and related passages as a whole, it's clear to me.

that's all I got for now. I'm tired and have to hit the pillow.

 

[westtexas]

Mustard Tree Facts | Garden Guides

ok jesus called that plant the smallest of herbs.is a herb a tree?

i dont think so.


what is the greek word that the lord used. since i went to the trouble of the english meaning lets look to see what the greek is. then we can be clear on this.

The Greek in Matt. 13:31 says "kokko (seed) sinapeos (mustard)"
This also coincides with the following article which says the mustard is from the genus "sinapis". It also says it is a herb but it grows so large it is called a tree.
Mustard (WebBible

Westtexas

 

[jasoncran]

The Greek in Matt. 13:31 says "kokko (seed) sinapeos (mustard)"
This also coincides with the following article which says the mustard is from the genus "sinapis". It also says it is a herb but it grows so large it is called a tree.
Mustard (WebBible

Westtexas

to nitpick here so that the readers are aware, the name brassica(genus) arent really trees at all, but rather herbs and that link that they could grow do that size.

however, a bird still couldnt lodge in those as that genus also doesnt have the branch strength as per the definition of herb as i posted.

that is what most people think when they see the word "tree" when really is not a tree at all.

modern english compared to then and the dead culture,causes this to happen.

as it even says plainly that the bird lodge. hmm i will have too look at the more as thats in err brassica in general dont have that strength.

 

[jasoncran]

MUSTARD in the Bible Encyclopedia - ISBE (Bible History Online)

talk about failing to see the forest for the trees.lol

this one is even more confusing.

it might not even be a mustard seed at all but a tree that has small seeds.

interesting..

 

[Alabaster]

Mustard Tree Facts | Garden Guides

ok jesus called that plant the smallest of herbs.is a herb a tree?

Jesus didn't say that.

Mark 4:31 NKJV
It is like a mustard seed which, when it is sown on the ground, is smaller than all the seeds on earth;

Then in verse 32 He says:

"but when it is sown, it grows up and becomes greater than all herbs, and shoots out large branches, so that the birds of the air may nest under its shade."

 

[jasoncran]

sigh.

herbs arent trees. and also if they are then what the jews called an herb ISNT the same as we know today. Which i posted a link a bout

mustard seed means any small seed, not the brassica genus. if it was the later then no bird could pirch in them as they dont have the strength to hold them.

capeesh.i did post the link on that where it says that as i also posted what an herb is.

in kjv mark 4:30-34
View commentary related to this passage



30And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?

31It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:

32But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than All Herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

33And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.

34But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

hmm says the greates of all herbs and that is the one we were talking about.

and take note that the lodge under and not in it. hmmm

vic c view is making sense.

 

[Sinthesis]

The inauspicious seed growing into a great tree is meant to recall prior 'trees' from the OT to provide a context and contrast with the promised Kingdom of God.

Ezekiel - Chapter 17
Ezekiel - Chapter 31
and especially Daniel - Chapter 4

 

[Hitch]

The inauspicious seed growing into a great tree is meant to recall prior 'trees' from the OT to provide a context and contrast with the promised Kingdom of God.

Ezekiel - Chapter 17
Ezekiel - Chapter 31
and especially Daniel - Chapter 4

Worth repeating.