Bible Study Paul....what happened to him?

[Atonement]

Jay T
Did not Paul (Saul) have Christians slaughtered? And persecuted the Church? And sent them to prison?

Act 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord

Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

1Cr 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

And so others may not be confused on the name. Saul was infact Paul

Act 13:9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

If this is so, how could Paul (Saul) keep the Commandments of God? Please help my confusion...

 

[Jay T]

Jay T
Did not Paul (Saul) have Christians slaughtered? And persecuted the Church? And sent them to prison?
Yes, Paul did all that.
Whever force is used against God's true followers, you can be assured satan is at work.....
And, there is coming a time, regarding the Mark of the Beast scenerio, where true Christian(s) will be persecuted, for maintaining the Bible truths.

Act 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord

Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

1Cr 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

And so others may not be confused on the name. Saul was infact Paul

Act 13:9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

If this is so, how could Paul (Saul) keep the Commandments of God? Please help my confusion...

Paul kept the commandments of God....AFTER....he was converted, as in the born-again experience.
A sinner is defined as a person who is breaking God's commandments (1 John 3:4 & Romans 7:7).

The born-again experience is one of having had their sinfulness removed, so that the person is, obedient towards God, instead of being in rebellion against God's Law.....
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Atonement]

I still don't understand how you could say Paul did not break the commandments? After his conversion Paul would have still broke the 10 commandments, because Paul still had sin in his life, as a man living in his flesh. No where in any version of the Bible, have I ever read that Paul was with out sin? Yes Paul taught that we should change our mind-set to become more Christ-like. To sin no more, even Jesus taught that. But no where did Paul say we could be with out sin. Romans teaches us that all men fall short from God's Glory, James teaches us that in the flesh we have trials, tribulations along with temptations. Ephesians teaches us that we need to use the armor of God to withstand the schemes of the devil. Paul's teachings were to equip the Christian. Teaching the Christian how to obey God's Word. But I do not read that Paul was a sinless man after his dedication to the Lord.

 

[Jay T]

I still don't understand how you could say Paul did not break the commandments?

Paul said it, not me.
Paul believed in what Jesus Christ said: 'go and sin no more', (John 5:14 & 8:11).
And, since sin is the breaking of any one of the commandments, sin produces guilt, and Paul said he had a conscience free from offense towards both God and man.
And, the ONLY way anyone can be free from guilt, is to have not committed any more sin(s).

After his conversion Paul would have still broke the 10 commandments, because Paul still had sin in his life, as a man living in his flesh.

Jesus Christ had the same flesh as you and me, yet HE committed no sin.
REMEMBER....Jesus Christ said of HIMSELF:
John 5:18 "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise".

No where in any version of the Bible, have I ever read that Paul was with out sin?

Remember that the Bible says that no man is to claim to be without sin ?
So, Paul never claimed to be without sin.
Paul obey what the scripture said...TOTALLY !

Yes Paul taught that we should change our mind-set to become more Christ-like. To sin no more, even Jesus taught that. But no where did Paul say we could be with out sin. Romans teaches us that all men fall short from God's Glory,

The Bible teaches that all men have (past tense) fallen from the glory of God, BUT not to continue falling.....do you see the difference ?

James teaches us that in the flesh we have trials, tribulations along with temptations.

Temptations are for the purpose of helping us to resist sin, thru the power of God.
Grace, is for the purpose of resisting sin.
Those who continue to commit sin, have received the grace of God in vain (2 Corinthians 6:1)

Ephesians teaches us that we need to use the armor of God to withstand the schemes of the devil.

And what does the devil want us to do.....commit sin !
Again, sin is defined as breaking any one of the commandments of God (1 John 3:4 & Romans 7:7).

Satan's WAR...is against God's people who keep the commandments of God......
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
That WAR....started with Adam & Eve.
AND...is continued down, to the MARK of the BEAST scenerio !

Paul's teachings were to equip the Christian.

EXACTLY !
Paul merely taught what Jesus Christ taught.

Teaching the Christian how to obey God's Word. But I do not read that Paul was a sinless man after his dedication to the Lord.

From Genesis to Revelation, God's object has ALWAYS BEEN......to bring mankind back, into keeping of God's commandments....
Eccl. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

 

[Georges]

From Genesis to Revelation, God's object has ALWAYS BEEN......to bring mankind back, into keeping of God's commandments....
Eccl. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

Do I believe my happy eyes....?

Someone other than me quoting the importance of Ecc. 12:13 and a mod at that.... :bday:

Careful Jay T...next you'll be quoting Eze 18 as the way to salvation.....then you'll be in really hot water... :-D

 

[jgredline]

Do I believe my happy eyes....?

Someone other than me quoting the importance of Ecc. 12:13 and a mod at that.... :bday:

Careful Jay T...next you'll be quoting Eze 18 as the way to salvation.....then you'll be in really hot water... :-D

Jay T
The fact that Georges is agreeing with you here should bring up red flags...

 

[Georges]

Jay T
The fact that Georges is agreeing with you here should bring up red flags...

:-D

Believe it or not...I'm not the enemy....I just agreed with the closing statement... :bday:

 

[Lewis]

Herodians' were more like' the politicians of those days. Was Paul into politics ? Yup. Did Paul care about how politics affected his people yup. When Paul was Saul he was very much so' into politics. But calling him a Herodian is kind of far out.

 

[Jay T]

Do I believe my happy eyes....?

Someone other than me quoting the importance of Ecc. 12:13 and a mod at that.... :bday:

Careful Jay T...next you'll be quoting Eze 18 as the way to salvation.....then you'll be in really hot water... :-D

The Apostle Paul told Timothy, that Salvation was founded upon the Old Testament Scriptures......
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


Psalms 51:1-10....is the very model of how Salvation works !!!

 

[Oscar3]

From Genesis to Revelation, God's object has ALWAYS BEEN......to bring mankind back, into keeping of God's commandments....
Eccl. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

Never have I seen someone pluck verses out of contex like what you seem to do.
Eccl 12:13-14
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man's all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.



12:13 To fear God is one of the major themes of this book and of wisdom literature in the Old Testament. To fear God is to respond to Him in awe, reverence, and wonder, to serve Him in purity of action, and to shun evil and any worship of anything else in His universe. Something you do not seem to understand. keep His commandments: The commandments of the Law are in view here. Jesus summed them up as to "love the Lord your God" and "your neighbor as yourself" (Matt. 22:34). What profit is there in living? If we follow what this book has said, we will have a relationship with God and find life in Him. Keep reading.
The next verse talks about judgment. This is something you convieniantly forgot. :-? This same teaching is echoed by the apostle Paul in 2 Cor. 5:10. 10 ''For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.''
Death is not the end. All of life will be reviewed by our righteous Lord . Life must be lived through faith with the values of the eternal God in view.
Still for others there is the great white thrown judgement where people will be ''tormented day and night'' for ever and ever. 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Oscar3]

Paul kept the commandments of God....AFTER....he was converted, as in the born-again experience.
A sinner is defined as a person who is breaking God's commandments (1 John 3:4 & Romans 7:7).

The born-again experience is one of having had their sinfulness removed, so that the person is, obedient towards God, instead of being in rebellion against God's Law.....
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

:roll: :o :roll: :o
I don't know :robot:

 

[Jay T]

Never have I seen someone pluck verses out of contex like what you seem to do.

Then you have not read much of Jesus Christ's words !

Eccl 12:13-14
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man's all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.



12:13 To fear God is one of the major themes of this book and of wisdom literature in the Old Testament. To fear God is to respond to Him in awe, reverence, and wonder, to serve Him in purity of action, and to shun evil and any worship of anything else in His universe. Something you do not seem to understand. keep His commandments: The commandments of the Law are in view here. Jesus summed them up as to "love the Lord your God" and "your neighbor as yourself" (Matt. 22:34). What profit is there in living? If we follow what this book has said, we will have a relationship with God and find life in Him. Keep reading.
The next verse talks about judgment. This is something you convieniantly forgot. :-?

OK, since you brought up the Judgment.....Let's go.....

The 10 commandments are the standard to be used on Judgment day, by which every Christian will be Judged by Eccl. 12:13,14 & James 2:10-12).

God is going to ask the modern Christian world why...didn't they keep the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath, like HE TOLD THEM TO !

He is going to ask them WHY....they ate foodstuffs, that God said not to eat.

God is going to ask a lot of questions, that HE said in the BIble that they did not study out.

God is going to ask why.....didn't they understand what the Bible's definition of what sin was ?

HE is going to ask them WHY....didn't them understand what RIGHTEOUSNESS is, defined in the Bible.

HE is going to ask WHY.....didn't they understand what GRACE was for, and, how to use it !

 

[Jay T]

Never have I seen someone pluck verses out of contex like what you seem to do.

Then, you haven't read much of what Jesus Christ said, have you !

 

[Oscar3]

Then, you haven't read much of what Jesus Christ said, have you !

Jesus did not keep the Sabbath. He broke the sabbath law over and over again. Was he not saved?

 

[Atonement]

Very good point Oscar. Jesus was condmened because he broke the law.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

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Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

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Luk 13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

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Luk 14:3 And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?

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Jhn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

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Jhn 9:14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.


Jay T. I still do not see where Paul never sinned after his conversion. You have yet proved that to me. Today, right now as I speak these words to you. I have a conscience free from offense towards both God and man. Daily repentence brings much assurance to the Christian. Am I sinless?

 

[Jay T]

Jesus did not keep the Sabbath. He broke the sabbath law over and over again. Was he not saved?

The Bible tells me that Jesus NEVER committed sin......
1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Now, the definition of sin is.......
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Jesus said HE KEPT GOD'S commandments.......
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Why have you not read these Bible verses ?

 

[Atonement]

Jay T you write this with blinders on. Oscar never said that Jesus sinned. But that he broke what was the Sabbath laws. Jesus was proving a point that a new covenant is re-placing the old. Because Jesus did in fact work and heal on the sabbath which did break old testament (covenant ) laws. I think Oscar was trying to prove a point. Yet you read to much in his post. He never said that Jesus was a sinner.

 

[Georges]

Hey.....who hijacked my thread.....?

Atonement, I demand that you delete everyones post that has nothing to do with the OP....

That's only fair, right? Or, is it only restricted to my posts?

 

[Atonement]

1st be smart about it and send it to me through a PM. 2nd be smart about it and tell me through that PM what in detail is off topic. And I will be more then happy to clean up your thread...

 

[stovebolts]

Jay T you write this with blinders on. Oscar never said that Jesus sinned. But that he broke what was the Sabbath laws. Jesus was proving a point that a new covenant is re-placing the old. Because Jesus did in fact work and heal on the sabbath which did break old testament (covenant ) laws. I think Oscar was trying to prove a point. Yet you read to much in his post. He never said that Jesus was a sinner.

If we look at the book of Ruth, we see a perfect picture of the full measure of the law at work.

By the time we get to the days of Jesus, the law had become distorted and "Legalized" you might say in modern language... You see, Jesus even asked, "Is it lawfull to heal on the Sabbath"... Of course, there were those that were insistent that it was. They, of course... were simply wrong on their interpretation of what the law represented. :wink:

In summary, Jesus did not break any OT, covenential laws, only false interpertions of them.