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Paul's "thorn in the flesh"

Rollo Tamasi

Warrior for Christ
Member
the Bible is very consistent. i've found that many words keep the same meaning throughout the Bible.
for instance, in Numbers chapter 6, wine and grape juice are both mentioned. wine is wine and grape juice is grape juice. they are not interchangeable.
but what about phrases?
in 2 Corinthians 12:7, Paul mentions "there was given me a thorn in my flesh".
Numbers 33:55 mentions a thorn in your sides.
Judges 2:3 mentions a thorn in your sides.
they all seem to have the same meaning.
if so, how would you best describe Pauls' thorn in the flesh.
if not, then what does it all mean?
 
the Bible is very consistent. i've found that many words keep the same meaning throughout the Bible.
for instance, in Numbers chapter 6, wine and grape juice are both mentioned. wine is wine and grape juice is grape juice. they are not interchangeable.
but what about phrases?
in 2 Corinthians 12:7, Paul mentions "there was given me a thorn in my flesh".
Numbers 33:55 mentions a thorn in your sides.
Judges 2:3 mentions a thorn in your sides.
they all seem to have the same meaning.
if so, how would you best describe Pauls' thorn in the flesh.
if not, then what does it all mean?

I wonder that myself...sometimes I think it is a reminder of our sin and it is a constant reminder of our sinful nature. My sin reminds me as a thorn in the flesh and a constant reminder to repent. I did find this scripture that may shed some light...

2 Corinthians 12:7 (KJV)
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Paul realized in his fleshly weakness that he might be exalted above measure, uplifted with pride himself. The same feeling is expressed in the following: "I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage; lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected." 1 Cor 9:27. He felt that the very greatness of the blessings and the honors entrusted to him might excite a pride that would be his ruin.

there was given to me a thorn in the flesh,—God provided against the danger by permitting Satan to give him a thorn in the flesh to keep him humble. That the affliction was bodily seems evident from the words "in the flesh"—an expression that does not indicate the principle of evil still in him, as some think, nor yet his mind or spirit, as others, but his physical being alone.

It was something personal, affecting him individually, and not as an apostle; causing him acute pain and shame. That the affliction was humiliating and loathsome is evident from the following reference to it: "Ye know that because of an infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you the first time: and that which was a temptation to you in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but ye received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus." Gal 4:13-14.

The term for rejected is very strong, literally "spat out," as the marginal reading. Its effect was to excite the scorn and aversion of the beholder, so that it supplied a severe test of the generosity of the Galatians who had witnessed Paul's abject condition under its infliction. The precise nature of the malady has been concealed perhaps that all afflicted ones may be encouraged and helped by Paul's unnamed, yet painful, experience.

a messenger of Satan—In God's government of his people and of the world, Satan is sometimes permitted to afflict bodily suffering upon men. Job 2:7, Luke 13:16.

to buffet me, Buffet seems to carry the idea that the affliction was outward, visible, and such as would have a tendency to prejudice his hearers against him, and so against his ministry. This removes the affliction, whatever it was, from the sphere of the mind, where some expositors would place it, and locates it in the body.

that I should not be exalted overmuch.—This indicates that bodily suffering is sometimes allowed to keep the fleshly impulses down to promote the spiritual well-being of the individual.
—Gospel Advocate Commentaries
 
your point is well taken. you are saying it is a literal interpretation.
but if it is related to numbers and judges, then it would need to be figurative as they are.
was he really talking about a physical affliction?
or was it the actual assault of satan that causes the affliction?
exalted above measure causes pride, conceit.
was God slowing paul down by allowing satanic attacks so as to keep him from pride?
i can picture paul going everywhere preaching the gospel, getting people, saved, building churches.
but satan kept giving him road blocks.
these road blocks included physical beatings, jail time, etc...
was paul asking God to take this away?
 
your point is well taken. you are saying it is a literal interpretation.
but if it is related to numbers and judges, then it would need to be figurative as they are.
was he really talking about a physical affliction?
or was it the actual assault of satan that causes the affliction?
exalted above measure causes pride, conceit.
was God slowing paul down by allowing satanic attacks so as to keep him from pride?
i can picture paul going everywhere preaching the gospel, getting people, saved, building churches.
but satan kept giving him road blocks.
these road blocks included physical beatings, jail time, etc...
was paul asking God to take this away?


I do not think Paul asked God to take this away. Paul fought the good fight and never gave up. It should set an example for us in our afflictions, whether it is physical or emotional to bear Paul's struggle in mind.

2 Timothy 4:7 (KJV)
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

It was for the good of man to save him from sin and its fearful consequences. It was for the glory and the honor of God. The struggle had been bravely sustained in the past, and was now being equally bravely sustained to the end. His claim to the crown was established.

I have finished the course,—It was to do his duty as a conscientious and noble hero of faith. He had fought it to a good end. How had he finished the course? The question is answered in Paul's own words, in which he explains his own course with joy as the ministry which he had received of the Lord Jesus. He says: "But I hold not my life of any account as dear unto myself, so that I may accomplish my course, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.... Wherefore I testify unto you this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God." Acts 20:24-27.

I have kept the faith:—He had been true to the faith through all the difficulties, conflicts, dangers, and temptations. He had not shrunk from confessing it when death stared him in the face; he had not corrupted it to meet the views of Jews or Gentiles. With courage and resolution and perseverance he had kept it to the end. To be faithful to God to the end is to succeed. That is the only true success.
 
Any answer to the question can only be speculative, we won't know until we can ask him, but I believe it helped him to not be too proud or boastful as he alludes to here:


Philippians 4:11-13 (KJV)
11. Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
12. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
13. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 
what kept paul in prison and in chains??????????? look at all the opposition he had. he stated in Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? there you will find your answer to his thorn in the flesh if the word says he asked 3 times for it to be removed ..then take it at face value .. how do you think he learned whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
 
2 Cor 12:7. And lest I (Paul) should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. Repeated using the NIV > To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations.

In (Col 1:25-26), Paul states that he became a minister according to the steward from God which was given to him for our sakes to fulfill, finish or complete the word of God; Even the mysteries which had been hidden from ages and generations, but now is made known to all who have accepted Jesus as savior and have become born of God. God gave this commission to the apostle Paul only of all the prophets and apostles he had. Would we have become proud over such a great revelation and commission freely given to us? Has God ever allowed you to lead even one person to Christ, and did you not hear the flesh boasting just a little?

2 Cor 12:8. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. Paul prayed three times to have the Lord remove the thorn in the flesh given to him. The thorn was probably an ailment of Paul’s eyes according to (Gal 4:14-15). And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Jesus Christ. What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.
 
The thorn was probably an ailment of Paul’s eyes according to (Gal 4:14-15). And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Jesus Christ. What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.
maybe but this answer dont line up. i don,t have time tonight to dig up scripture to back what i say..if i can remember will try tues
 
the eyes, that's a good thought. it's speculative, but still a good thought. i had never considered that before. but i still think it is spiritual. if it were the eyes, why not just say it?
 
the eyes, that's a good thought. it's speculative, but still a good thought. i had never considered that before. but i still think it is spiritual. if it were the eyes, why not just say it?

Possibly the thought of covering all sufferings we will face in our walk in Christ. Peter says in 1 Peter 4:12-13, Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

And then in 1 Peter 1:7, That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Our faith is tested (proven as Abraham's) as Paul's was and he glorified God for it. Philippians 1:12, But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel.

2 Corinthians 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep.

2 Corinthians 11:30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

Paul was running a race to win Christ. Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ.There is more to our salvation than merely going to heaven.

This reminds me of the hymn "Take the world, but give me Jesus." written by Fanny Crosby. Though blind from the age of six weeks she wrote 8000 of some of the most beautiful hymns we have. Her seeming tragedy has fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz4vXdVjGJA
 
Paul knew that by the stripes of Christ he had perfect and legal right to be healed! He also had great power over every demon, even to the point that Paul turned people over to satan for correction? Now what ever the affliction, Paul COMMANDED IT three times that it should go! When it did not go, The Lord Himself had to explain to Paul why!

Now some can look at his thorn and say"see we are not healed by the Stripes of Christ" I say when you have power over demons and satan and you are taken to heaven and shown all its glory! And the Lord Himself speaks to you and makes you an Aposltle. That you will be ready for Pauls Thorn! If you dont understand the power of God, nor never been healed by His Stripes? I doubt that you have been given Pauls Thorn!

It might be religious pride that has allowed satan to make you sick? But dont try to claim you are suffering for Christ and the gospel? I do not judge or condemn anyone for getting sick? I have compassion for any who suffer! But you do not know Christ as you should, if you think He does not want to heal you! Faith is needed! not religious faith but real faith!
 
thank you mitspa. you should respond to the post "get a medical check-up?" in health and nutrition

Not sure of your point? but I will make another!

The reason many of you are sick and fall asleep is because you do not decern the Lords body!

Jesus could not heal many because of their unbelief!

And you who say the Lord has given you a sickness to teach you humility? Why are you going to the doctor? or taking medicine or herbs and such? are you trying to get out of Gods will?

No! I think some of you do not believe the nonsense you try to act as if you believe!

This same Paul said " all the promises of God In Him, is yes and amen! When he did not see what he knew to be true, The Lord Himself had to explain the reason He held back a promise.

Lets just be honest, you who reject the baptism of the Holy Spirit have rejected your healing and now you look for a religious reason to cover your own powerless faith!
 
my point of you responding to the other post is that i thought you could add insight into what is being discussed.
 
the eyes, that's a good thought. it's speculative, but still a good thought. i had never considered that before. but i still think it is spiritual. if it were the eyes, why not just say it?

Saul/Paul being blinded on the road to Damascus may have led to bad eye sight.


Gal 4:15 "Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if [it had been] possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me."

If Paul did not have bad eye sight then what does this verse mean?

Gal 6:11 "Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand."

I do not think 'large' here refers to length for Paul wrote other epistles much longer than the Galatian epistle. Large I think means size of individual letters for one who cannot see well would write in large letters so he can see what he is writing.

'ABCDE' would be easier for me so see than 'ABCDE' if I had bad eye sight.
 
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my point of you responding to the other post is that i thought you could add insight into what is being discussed.

Forgive me for my failure to understand!
Not much danger of me receiving a needed "thorne in the flesh" I have enough faults and weaknesses that grace has all the weakness it needs to make perfect HIS STRENGTH!

i think this is the point of the scripture! That grace comes upon that which needs it! A weak man can learn things about God that a strong man never will. Again I am sorry that I failed to see your point. Mitspa
 
Gal 4:15 "Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if [it had been] possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me."

If Paul did not have bad eye sight then what does this verse mean?

Gal 6:11 "Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand."

I do not think 'large' here refers to length for Paul wrote other epistles much longer than the Galatian epistle. Large I think means size of individual letters for one who cannot see well would write in large letters so he can see what he is writing.

'ABCDE' would be easier for me so see than 'ABCDE' if I had bad eye sight.

Nonsense! see how "small" a post I needed to send! lol
 
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