Peniel, The Angel of the Lord. Only god born. Yahshua.

[JudaicChristian]

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
NIV Foot note on Psalm 40:6. b.Psalm 40:6 Hebrew; Septuagint but a body you have prepared for me (see also Symmachus and Theodotion) Yahwah, the Holy Spirit, placed Peniel's spirit into a body created in Mary's womb; and Peniel was born Yahshua.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Do not reply to this post. It is just a little of something for you to think about.

 

[Sinthesis]

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
NIV Foot note on Psalm 40:6. b.Psalm 40:6 Hebrew; Septuagint but a body you have prepared for me (see also Symmachus and Theodotion) Yahwah, the Holy Spirit, placed Peniel's spirit into a body created in Mary's womb; and Peniel was born Yahshua.

How do you get Peniel's spirit from Psalm 40:6?

 

[SonByAdoption]

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
NIV Foot note on Psalm 40:6. b.Psalm 40:6 Hebrew; Septuagint but a body you have prepared for me (see also Symmachus and Theodotion) Yahwah, the Holy Spirit, placed Peniel's spirit into a body created in Mary's womb; and Peniel was born Yahshua.

I don't know anything about anyone named Peniel. You told me the other day that you were a Judeo Christian grafted into Israel or something like that well than there is a name that you might already be familliar with.

"At that time Michael, the great commander, will stand up on behalf of the descendants of your people...."Daniel 12:1 GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

Which great commander did Stephen see standing up for the people of Israel?

"But Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked straight into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God." Acts 7:55

Stephen was a true Sabbath keeping Antitrinitarian judeo Christian and he didn't know anything about this satanic doctrine you keep promoting about Christ being a created being.

"As they continued to stone Stephen, he kept praying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!†Acts 7:59

Christ was God's only Born Son way before He was ever Mary's only born Son. "...He gave His only begotten Son...""...God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.
"John 3:16;1st John 4:9

 

[JudaicChristian]

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
NIV Foot note on Psalm 40:6. b.Psalm 40:6 Hebrew; Septuagint but a body you have prepared for me (see also Symmachus and Theodotion) Yahwah, the Holy Spirit, placed Peniel's spirit into a body created in Mary's womb; and Peniel was born Yahshua.

I don't know anything about anyone named Peniel. You told me the other day that you were a Judeo Christian grafted into Israel or something like that well than there is a name that you might already be familliar with.

"At that time Michael, the great commander, will stand up on behalf of the descendants of your people...."Daniel 12:1 GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

Which great commander did Stephen see standing up for the people of Israel?

"But Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked straight into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God." Acts 7:55

Stephen was a true Sabbath keeping Antitrinitarian judeo Christian and he didn't know anything about this satanic doctrine you keep promoting about Christ being a created being.

"As they continued to stone Stephen, he kept praying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!†Acts 7:59

Christ was God's only Born Son way before He was ever Mary's only born Son. "...He gave His only begotten Son...""...God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.
"John 3:16;1st John 4:9

Genesis 32:24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak."
But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."
27 The man asked him, "What is your name?"
"Jacob," he answered.

28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

29 Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."
But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there.

30 So Jacob called the place PENIEL, saying, "It is because I saw (A god) God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

 

[JudaicChristian]

Because you do not know what your talking about, I think it best if you do not speak to me.

 

[Sinthesis]

Because you do not know what your talking about, I think it best if you do not speak to me.

Would you be happier if Genesis 32:30 was correctly translated: So Jacob (A god) called the place (A god) PENIEL (A god), saying, "It (A god) is because I (A god) saw (A god) God (A god) face (A god) to face (A god), and yet my life (A god) was spared." :D :D :D

 

[JudaicChristian]

Toto, you are no longer in Kansas.

 

[JudaicChristian]

1. Judges 13:22
"We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have seen God!"

2. John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the only begotten son who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

3. 1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
In order for there to be no contradiction in scripture, Judges 13:22 should have read (seen a god.) Scripture repeatedly says that person is a man. Our Holy God is not a man, but a Holy Spirit.

 

[Sinthesis]

1. Judges 13:22
"We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have seen God!"

2. John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the only begotten son who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

3. 1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
In order for there to be no contradiction in scripture, Judges 13:22 should have read (seen a god.) Scripture repeatedly says that person is a man. Our Holy God is not a man, but a Holy Spirit.

Please read the rest of Judges 13. What Manoah and his wife saw is a theophany known as the 'angel of the LORD'. No man can comprehend, much less see, God the Father. Any interaction Man has with God the Father is through the Word, who was made flesh in Jesus Christ.

 

[cyberjosh]

Yahwah, the Holy Spirit, placed Peniel's spirit into a body created in Mary's womb; and Peniel was born Yahshua

Listen, regardless of preincarnate appearances of Christ, this is sounding dangerously close to Gnosticism, at least without elaboration on your point. Jesus, the Logos, was not just "a spirit" placed into "a body". Jesus was both fully divine (was God - John 1:1) and fully human. His soujourn among us can be likened to dwelling in a tent as nomads do, "And the Word became flesh and tabernacled (skenoo) among us" (John 1:14), skenoo being a Greek word derived from a semitic root SKN from which came the Hebrew words shakan and mishkan, the word used for the Tabernacle (Tent of Meeting) in the wilderness, and from whence our word "shekinah" comes. But though Jesus was then among us at that point in time in bodily form, we don't need to try to divide between Christ's body and spirit. I believe Christ still possesses a (glorified) body with the nails in his hands and feet, which is why Daniel still speaks of Christ (in the future) as being the Son of Man when he returns.

I'm not sure if you meant to imply some sort of division, and perhaps we are in complete agreement, but I just wanted to clear that up since your point seems rather vague at this point. Please feel free to elborate.

Thanks,

~Josh

 

[JudaicChristian]

Your website has a virus.

1. Judges 13:22
"We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have seen God!"

2. John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the only begotten son who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

3. 1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

In order for there to be no contradiction in scripture, Judges 13:22 should have read (seen a god.) Scripture repeatedly says that person is a man. Our Holy God is not a man, but a Holy Spirit.

Genesis 32:24. So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak.
25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.
26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak." But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."
27 The man asked him, "What is your name?" "Jacob," he answered.
28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."
29 Jacob said, "Please tell me your name." And he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there.
30 So Jacob called the place PENIEL, saying, "It is because I saw (a god) God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

Judges 13:17. Then Manoah inquired of the messenger of Yahwah, "What is your name, so that we may honor you when your word comes true?"
18 He replied, "Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding."
19 Then Manoah took a young goat, together with the grain offering, and sacrificed it on a rock to Yahwah, who did an amazing thing while Manoah and his wife watched:
20 As the flame blazed up from the altar toward heaven, the messenger of Yahwah ascended in the flame. Seeing this, Manoah and his wife fell with their faces to the ground.
21 When the messenger of Yahwah did not show himself again to Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was a messenger of Yahwah.
22 "We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have seen a god!"
23 But his wife answered, "If Yahwah had meant to kill us, he would not have accepted a burnt offering and grain offering from our hands, nor shown us all these things or now told us this."
24 The woman gave birth to a boy and named him Samson. He grew and Yahwah blessed him, 25 and the Spirit of Yahwah began to stir him while he was in Mahaneh Dan, between Zorah and Eshtaol.

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;...
NIV Foot note on Psalm 40:6. b.Psalm 40:6 Hebrew; Septuagint: but a body you have prepared for me (see also Symmachus and Theodotion)

Yahwah, the Holy Spirit, placed Peniel's spirit into a body created in Mary's womb; and Peniel was born Yahshua.

I am a Judaeo Christian. I am AntiPagan, AntiGnostic, AntiMystic, AntiKabala, and AntiSecret Society.

Signed: Michael.

 

[cyberjosh]

1. Judges 13:22
"We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have seen God!"

2. John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the only begotten son who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

3. 1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

In order for there to be no contradiction in scripture, Judges 13:22 should have read (seen a god.) Scripture repeatedly says that person is a man. Our Holy God is not a man, but a Holy Spirit.

Yes, but Jesus also said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how then can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:9) Thus God can be seen in vieled form and men not die, but in his full glory man would perish. This is why God hid himself in the cloud on Mount Sinai and told them no one can see Him and live, yet he can appear face to face with Abraham and Jacob (most likely in the form of an angel - the preincarnate Christ) where such glory was vieled, yet however that didn't stop them both (rightfully) from marveling that they had "seen the face of God and lived". Jesus' glory peaked through at his transfiguration, and Paul even saw (as long as it lasted) the brilliance of Jesus' own glory such that it blinded him ("brighter than the noonday sun" - Acts 26:13). And when Isaiah caught the breifest of glimpses of God's glory he exclaimed "Woe is me for I am undone!".

So I think the distinction here is that God can appear to men (in the flesh) when not revealed in His full glory, but that God in His full glory man cannot see. Yet it is amazing that as a major theme of the Old Testament and which is carried into the New Testament in 2 Corinthians 6, of God being "their God" and them "being His people", and that he will "dwell among them and walk among them", the ultimate goal of which is God desiring to dwell among us in his full glory, and this is only possible by God giving us His Spirit and (in the future) our glorified bodies. But the most amazing part of all this is that those who are saved and sanctified are promised in the future that they will then be able to see God, "for without holiness no one shall see God" (Hebrews 12:14), but those who are holy and sanctified will see Him.

And yet, in part, Jesus has already shown the Father to us by coming in the flesh which is why he can saw if we have seen him we have seen the Father. This will ultimately be culminated and consumated in the future with Christ returning in all His glory, but we have had that fore-glimpse through Christ, and now which is conveyed to us by the Holy Spirit.

Do you agree with this? Is there some point of dialogue that we can discuss to bridge our two areas of concern. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this very interesting subject.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[JudaicChristian]

1. Judges 13:22
"We are doomed to die!" he said to his wife. "We have seen God!"

2. John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the only begotten son who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

3. 1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

In order for there to be no contradiction in scripture, Judges 13:22 should have read (seen a god.) Scripture repeatedly says that person is a man. Our Holy God is not a man, but a Holy Spirit.

Yes, but Jesus also said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how then can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:9) Thus God can be seen in vieled form and men not die, but in his full glory man would perish. This is why God hid himself in the cloud on Mount Sinai and told them no one can see Him and live, yet he can appear face to face with Abraham and Jacob (most likely in the form of an angel - the preincarnate Christ) where such glory was vieled, yet however that didn't stop them both (rightfully) from marveling that they had "seen the face of God and lived". Jesus' glory peaked through at his transfiguration, and Paul even saw (as long as it lasted) the brilliance of Jesus' own glory such that it blinded him ("brighter than the noonday sun" - Acts 26:13). And when Isaiah caught the breifest of glimpses of God's glory he exclaimed "Woe is me for I am undone!".

So I think the distinction here is that God can appear to men (in the flesh) when not revealed in His full glory, but that God in His full glory man cannot see. Yet it is amazing that as a major theme of the Old Testament and which is carried into the New Testament in 2 Corinthians 6, of God being "their God" and them "being His people", and that he will "dwell among them and walk among them", the ultimate goal of which is God desiring to dwell among us in his full glory, and this is only possible by God giving us His Spirit and (in the future) our glorified bodies. But the most amazing part of all this is that those who are saved and sanctified are promised in the future that they will then be able to see God, "for without holiness no one shall see God" (Hebrews 12:14), but those who are holy and sanctified will see Him.

And yet, in part, Jesus has already shown the Father to us by coming in the flesh which is why he can saw if we have seen him we have seen the Father. This will ultimately be culminated and consumated in the future with Christ returning in all His glory, but we have had that fore-glimpse through Christ, and now which is conveyed to us by the Holy Spirit.

Do you agree with this? Is there some point of dialogue that we can discuss to bridge our two areas of concern. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this very interesting subject.

God Bless,

~Josh

For sure Yahshua repersents Yahwah in all that he says and does. However, they are not the same being. Yahshua came into this world to reconcile mankind to Yahwah.

 

[cyberjosh]

For sure Yahshua repersents Yahwah in all that he says and does. However, they are not the same being. Yahshua came into this world to reconcile mankind to Yahwah.

Well, I certainly agree with the first and last sentance, but I'm a little unclear as to you saying "they are not the same being". I believe that God is triune, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three different persons but one God. If we disagree on the Trinity we will have to discuss that issue elsewhere (plenty of threads where that has already been debated).

But yes Jesus came to reconcile us to the Father and he was completely obedient to his Father in every respect. Yet Christ's complete faithful obedience justified God in raising him from the dead and raising him up to the right hand of the Father. Jesus ultimately will deliver up the kingdom to His Father but He is to be just as esteemed because He has been exalted back to His rightful place to have "the glory I had with you before the world began" (John 17:5). Christ shares in that glory and He and the Father, as well as the Spirit, are One - triune. And even when he was in the flesh, and to this very moment, "in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Colossians 2:9). Are we in agreement on this point, or do you deny that Jesus is God? I don't mean to be blunt but this does need to be cleared up if I am to understand you.

Thanks,

~Josh

 

[JudaicChristian]

For sure Yahshua repersents Yahwah in all that he says and does. However, they are not the same being. Yahshua came into this world to reconcile mankind to Yahwah.

Well, I certainly agree with the first and last sentance, but I'm a little unclear as to you saying "they are not the same being". I believe that God is triune, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three different persons but one God. If we disagree on the Trinity we will have to discuss that issue elsewhere (plenty of threads where that has already been debated).

But yes Jesus came to reconcile us to the Father and he was completely obedient to his Father in every respect. Yet Christ's complete faithful obedience justified God in raising him from the dead and raising him up to the right hand of the Father. Jesus ultimately will deliver up the kingdom to His Father but He is to be just as esteemed because He has been exalted back to His rightful place to have "the glory I had with you before the world began" (John 17:5). Christ shares in that glory and He and the Father, as well as the Spirit, are One - triune. And even when he was in the flesh, and to this very moment, "in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Colossians 2:9). Are we in agreement on this point, or do you deny that Jesus is God? I don't mean to be blunt but this does need to be cleared up if I am to understand you.

Thanks,

~Josh

Have you read my Matthew 28:19 commentary in "one on one debate?" Here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=36270

 

[cyberjosh]

Have you read my Matthew 28:19 commentary in "one on one debate?" Here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=36270

No, I hadn't seen that particular thread before, though those arguements are not new to me. However my understanding of the Trinity is not based on just a few verses with trinitarian formulas, but rather an observation taken from reading the whole of Scripture. And proving that the Trinity was a late doctrinal formulation doesn't mean much theologically. Just because a formal doctrine had not been articulated until later doesn't mean the truths were not always there, clear to be seen. Well before a formal formulation of the Trinity doctrine Athenagoras (circa 175 A.D.) showed a clear understanding of the triune nature of God:

"The Holy Spirit Himself also, which operates in the prophets, we assert to be an effluence of God, flowing from Him, and returning back again like a beam of the sun. Who, then, would not be astonished to hear men who speak of God the Father, and of God the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and who declare both their power in union and their distinction in order, called atheists?" Athenagoras, 2.133

"[Christians are] men who reckon the present life of very small worth indeed, and who are conducted to the future life by this one thing alone, that they know God and His Logos, what is the oneness of the Son with the Father, what the communion of the Father with the Son, what is the Spirit, what is the unity of these three, the Spirit, the Son, the Father, and their distinction in unity." Athenagoras, 2.134

"For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence,â€â€the Father, the Son, the Spirit, because the Son is the Intelligence, Reason, Wisdom of the Father, and the Spirit an effluence, as light from fire" Athenagoras, 2.141

So also Clement of Alexandria (c. 195 AD) and Hippolytus (c. 205 AD):

"The universal Father is one. The universal Word is one. And the Holy Spirit is one." Clement of Alexandria, 2.220

"Thank the Alone Father and Son, Son and Father, the Son, Instructor and Teacher, with the Holy Spirit, all in One, in whom is all, for whom all is One, for whom is eternity, whose members we all are, whose glory the aeons are; for the All-good, All-lovely, All-wise, All-just One. To whom be glory both now and for ever. Amen." Clement of Alexandria, 2.295

"The earth is moved by three things: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." Hippolytus, 5.174

"Who will not say that there is one God? Yet, he will not on that account deny the Economy." Hippolytus, 5.224 - The 'Economy' being an early reference in the Church to the triune nature of God within Himself. So God was more often early on called a 'Economy' rather than a 'Trinity' as far as terminilology goes.

"We accordingly see the incarnate Word. And we know the Father through Him. We also believe in the Son, and we worship the Holy Spirit." Hippolytus, 5. 228

The idea of the triune nature of God is clear in the Scripture and by the end of the 2nd century AD, and even hints of even earlier quotes from other Church fathers show a clear understanding of this triune nature, long before the formal formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[JudaicChristian]

Having been brought up as a Baptist I am aware of all of the Trinitarian proofs. After making a complete study of all of those places of proof, I have found problems in every place proof is given. You may also want to consider the fact that Orthodox Jews have never believed in Trinitarism, and still do not to this day. Yahwah has many name titles, and Holy Spirit is one of them. Since the beginning of Judaism and Christianity, Pagan and Gnostic Mystics have sought to influence both.

 

[Sinthesis]

Yahwah has many name titles, and Holy Spirit is one of them. Since the beginning of Judaism and Christianity, Pagan and Gnostic Mystics have sought to influence both.

Perhaps. However, Peniel is not one of God's names. Peniel is a place name.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Yahwah has many name titles, and Holy Spirit is one of them. Since the beginning of Judaism and Christianity, Pagan and Gnostic Mystics have sought to influence both.

Perhaps. However, Peniel is not one of God's names. Peniel is a place name.

I did not say that Peniel was one of Yahwah's name titles. From what you have said, I presume that you did not read the first part of this thread. Yahshua (Jesus) had a name before he was born into this world Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know! Yahwah is His name, and Peniel who is now called Yahshua is His son. Exodus 23:21
Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him. Psalm 68:4 Sing to God, sing praise to his name, extol him who rides on the clouds his name is Yah and rejoice before him.