Bible Study Pentecost, What Was It For?

[Chopper]

Hi Chopper, I have experienced this also, and believe this is what Paul refers to in Rom. 8:26-27.

Thank you my friend. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit and later the tongues, were not my asking for or doing in any way, they were strictly done by God Himself. I still am in a state of wondering why God Himself would accomplish these things in me. I do know that He used me in ways that would have been impossible before He Baptized me....All praise to God for His great gifts of Grace and service to Him.

 

[Jim Parker]

Pentecost was all about POWER to witness!

Act 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Sama'ria and to the end of the earth."

 

[IncredibleTransformation]

It seems to me like the one thing that the church needs these days is the one thing they reject, The Holy Spirit. Many churches in America have become nothing more than social gatherings with a Jesus stamp. That is why we are so anemic and ineffective. Unless we have revival with an outpouring of the Holy Spirit the American Church is doomed to the state it is in right now, total ineffectiveness and apostasy.

 

[Christ_empowered]

It seems to me like the one thing that the church needs these days is the one thing they reject, The Holy Spirit. Many churches in America have become nothing more than social gatherings with a Jesus stamp. That is why we are so anemic and ineffective. Unless we have revival with an outpouring of the Holy Spirit the American Church is doomed to the state it is in right now, total ineffectiveness and apostasy.

I agree with that...to a point. On the liberal/progressive/left-wing end of the church spectrum, The Holy Spirit seems to be absent. I mean...very, very much absent. I think the same is true of some of the more conservative branches, too. The "name it and claim it," "prosperity gospel" people, for example...may of them grew out of Pentecostalism, with its emphasis on The Holy Spirit, but now...well, I don't know who or what is making these churches grow and the preachers grow rich, but its not The Holy Spirit.

Some churches complain about Pentecostal emphasis on emotions and such. I kinda get that, to a point. Play some touching, contemporary Christian music...have an altar call..."see how many people got saved last night?" Right. How many of those were genuine, bona fide conversions? How many of those will receive sufficient disciple-ing to see it through to the end?

Then again...I grew up PCUSA, the more liberal (and biggest) branch of Presbyterian in the US. Looking back...fairly dead church. My mom was a genuine believer...she reads Calvin, she went to a Calvinist college...most of the other people were there because their family has always been Presby. The kids my age who went there...no more Christian now than I ever was. They still go to church, especially now that PCUSA is gay-affirming and women can do everything men can do and they're behind more liberal/progressive social+political policies. They weren't really big on emotions or The Holy Spirit, or...anything, really...and the result was sad. Just as sad as the heretical offshoots of Pentecostalism, just...much more "respectable" and all.

Rambling...I think Protestantism in the US is changing, shifting, yet again...because of the culture. Some branches are secularized, some are secularizing, some are more psychology than Good News-oriented, some are...trying to spread The Good News and help others, and doing the best they can. Its a mixed bag, probably always has been.

 

[IncredibleTransformation]

I agree with that...to a point. On the liberal/progressive/left-wing end of the church spectrum, The Holy Spirit seems to be absent. I mean...very, very much absent. I think the same is true of some of the more conservative branches, too. The "name it and claim it," "prosperity gospel" people, for example...may of them grew out of Pentecostalism, with its emphasis on The Holy Spirit, but now...well, I don't know who or what is making these churches grow and the preachers grow rich, but its not The Holy Spirit.

Some churches complain about Pentecostal emphasis on emotions and such. I kinda get that, to a point. Play some touching, contemporary Christian music...have an altar call..."see how many people got saved last night?" Right. How many of those were genuine, bona fide conversions? How many of those will receive sufficient disciple-ing to see it through to the end?

Then again...I grew up PCUSA, the more liberal (and biggest) branch of Presbyterian in the US. Looking back...fairly dead church. My mom was a genuine believer...she reads Calvin, she went to a Calvinist college...most of the other people were there because their family has always been Presby. The kids my age who went there...no more Christian now than I ever was. They still go to church, especially now that PCUSA is gay-affirming and women can do everything men can do and they're behind more liberal/progressive social+political policies. They weren't really big on emotions or The Holy Spirit, or...anything, really...and the result was sad. Just as sad as the heretical offshoots of Pentecostalism, just...much more "respectable" and all.

Rambling...I think Protestantism in the US is changing, shifting, yet again...because of the culture. Some branches are secularized, some are secularizing, some are more psychology than Good News-oriented, some are...trying to spread The Good News and help others, and doing the best they can. Its a mixed bag, probably always has been.

Very well said.

 

[Douglas Summers]

It seems to me like the one thing that the church needs these days is the one thing they reject, The Holy Spirit. Many churches in America have become nothing more than social gatherings with a Jesus stamp. That is why we are so anemic and ineffective. Unless we have revival with an outpouring of the Holy Spirit the American Church is doomed to the state it is in right now, total ineffectiveness and apostasy.

Hi Sandy, It is not just these days. It started in the beginning. (Jude 1:18-20). Many claims of having the Holy Spirit are exploited today. But a born again believer can tell the difference: Those who make claims continually to back up their own doctrines, They get angry and often label you with unflattering labels. They are contrite and not able to speak to the reference Scriptures that you would use to support a discussion or doctrine....yet they will throw Scripture around (usually out of context) that has nothing to do with the subject discussed.

A born again believer will also not fade from the truth, But will not reach a point of name calling, and will also give a good report of standing on the truth that is not condescending, even thou he is accused of it. Usually the carnal christian labels the believer with all that the carnal christian is himself. It just comes natural, he is void of the Spirit. 1 Corinthians chapter 13 is the nature of the Holy Spirit in the born again believer.

 

[smaller]

There is little doubt that by faith in Christ, we are taught not only in and by Word, but by hard earned lessons of experience, that the Spirit of Christ is in our midst. This is an internal matter of the heart, undoubtedly.

When I was first saved I had this mindset: That it was "Jesus" and "me" in this internal engagement. This is what today I'd term the typical picture believers have in their mind, with TWO parties, themselves and Jesus in them. How they may perceive the latter is another subject.

But, it did not take long for me to come to understand this wasn't a complete Word picture, nor is it a complete "experienced" picture.

Without going into a long recitation of experience and Word to paint an accurate picture I'll cut to the chase in my typical fashion with the real scriptural picture. Here is the picture Paul gave of himself:

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

In the above example we should be able to readily discern that there is Paul, and there is an adversary also in operation. A spiritually partial blinded person can not see or perceive this. It is hidden to their eyes, even as they read it, because of the other party, blinding them.

Now, finish the picture:

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Now, what do we see, if we see? Us and some other believer and Jesus? Or do we perceive the "internal matters" of Jesus IN our midst?

I used to see Jesus and me. Two.

I came to see me, Jesus in the midst of me, and the adversary.

It's a much more accurate picture of scripture, and of experience.

And yes, this does change how we perceive every Word of God. When the "cloven" tongues of fire fell on those in the upper room, those tongues were "cloven" for express purposes of showing TWO WORKINGS. One for us, One against the adversary. This is the language of the Spirit and how every Word of God Is Spoken.

The TONGUE of Jesus, the SWORD coming from His Mouth.

Genesis 3:24
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

IF you have ever felt like God was against you, now you know why. But God is not against YOU, as His child. He is however against the enemies, Fixed and Determined in His Ways and Purposes.

It is no small matter to come to understand this.

Isaiah 1:20
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Isaiah 66:16
For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many.

Everyone that Jesus finds, is THRUST THROUGH with His Sword. His Sword causes us to live. It also causes us to die.

The Swinging of His Sword is shown externally to us in the O.T. But in the intricacies of those studies/observations, there is an internal working to be perceived as well, which is the precursor to showings of how His Sword works in the N.T.

Now, we may pity the petty little fightings among carnal christians in vainly trying to use His Sword to try to destroy each others, which assuredly goes on all the time. But, if you think of it in this way, that it is like children preparing for war among ourselves for what is to come, you may see the Wisdom of God in it, in preparing His Hosts for the real battle:

WHEN HE OPENS OUR EYES

Isaiah 30:30
And the Lord shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
http://legacy.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+64:2&version=KJV
Isaiah 64:2
As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

We do not war against flesh and blood my friends. Eph. 6:11-12

 

[turnorburn]

Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:


47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


48 And ye are witnesses of these things.


49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Without Pentecost we would be naked without armor to fight the fight of faith..

 

[Jim Parker]

It seems to me like the one thing that the church needs these days is the one thing they reject, The Holy Spirit. Many churches in America have become nothing more than social gatherings with a Jesus stamp. That is why we are so anemic and ineffective. Unless we have revival with an outpouring of the Holy Spirit the American Church is doomed to the state it is in right now, total ineffectiveness and apostasy.

Amen.
That is exactly why this country is going down the drain.

iakov the fool