perfected forever

[savedbygrace57]

Heb 10:

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The word here perfected is the greek word:
teleio? and means:

to make perfect, complete

a) to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
2) to complete (perfect)

These became that way perfected, by the one offering of christ, not by their freewill, their faith, their repentance..but they were perfected, and that forever, by the one offering of Jesus christ for them..

Also, this is to whom paul preached his gospel to, when he says, we speak to them that are perfect as in 1 cor 2:

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

That is, he speaks the word of the gospel unto or among them that are made perfect or perfected by the offering of christ..

When it comes to salvation, thats who God sovereignly directs the gospel too..those perfected by the Offering of christ..this omits the seed of the devil..

The word perfected in our text also is in the perfect tense in the greek, which denotes once and for all, permanetly, not to be undone..

Now more specifically, to whom is the writer of hebrews 10 14 referring to ?

Those that are sanctified.. can one be sanctified before they are born ? Yes as we see in Jer 1:

5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

All the chosen of God are sanctified by God the Father, before they actually exist in the time state, this is the sense of jude:

1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

The chosen are too sanctified by the offering or death of christ heb 10:

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This too is in the perfect tense in the greek..there is not a time when the elect, even when dead in tresspasses and sins, are not sanctified..that is having been set apart for a specific Divine and Holy Purpose..being born sinners doesnt set that purpose aside..

Jesus prays about the sanctifying effects of those he dies for jn 17:

19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Here, Jesus is terming his death as sanctifying himself, in order that, they [all those given him jn 17 3] will in time, be sanctified by or through the Truth [the true gospel]

Also the Holy Ghost sanctifies the elect, as an answer to Jesus prayer right above. He does sanctify the chosen ones with the Truth 2 nd thess 2:

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

These sanctifed ones are perfected forever.. this is their eternal security, the blood of christ..His present intercession for them contributes to their eternal security..as we note in rom 8:

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

and heb 7:

25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Interestingly, the word for uttermost in the greek is the word:

pantel?s and it means:

all complete, perfect
2) completely, perfectly, utterly

This Ideal is in sync with what i have shown previously already, as the effects of the once and for all, perfection of the one offering of christ, for those who are once and for all sanctified..



Oh what Security, the True Child of God has..blessed be the name of the LORD..

 

[Joe67]

sbg57,

He who is justified in heaven (his name written above) is also sanctified on earth (law written in heart and mind). He who is thus "born of God does not commit sin, for his seed remains in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1John 3:9. Then God calls us his children and says that he is our God. Then he remembers our sins and iniquities no more.

Perfection is through suffering. We are made conformable to the image of his death; that we might attain unto his resurrection. Thus we partake of his blood and body; his death and resurrection.

The gifts and the calling of God are without repentance. When he calls us his children, it is forever. Though Jesus was a son, he learned obedience by the things that he suffered. He does not thresh forever.

Joe

 

[savedbygrace57]

joe:

sbg57,

He who is justified in heaven (his name written above) is also sanctified on earth (law written in heart and mind).

Those sanctified by the death of christ and perfected forever are so before they are born sinners..I did not have to be born yet when christ died in order for His death to sanctify me and perfect me before my mothers womb..

Its Illustrated with jeremiah jer 1:

5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Perfected Forever

This perfection that the one offering of christ provided, it effects and applies every spiritual blessing needed for a life of devoted Godliness unto God, starting with Faith and Repentance..it ensures fellowship with the Father and with the Lord Jesus christ, as well as communion with the Holy Ghost 2 cor 13:

14The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

The word for communion is also fellowship in the greek..which is:

koin?nia

The Perfection of this offering covers the whole life of the pilgrim unto the day of Glory, for paul prays according to the will of God this prayer 1 thess 5:

22Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

The different stages of this experience of sanctification, is all of Gods doing..Its by His Faithfulness, not freewill, not our efforts, none of that..but by the Sovereign good pleasure of God..

The word wholly in 1 thess 5 23 means:

perfect, complete in all respects

God Himself is Faithful in that He will fully cause us to experience the complteness, in all respects, of the perfection of christ atonement on our behalf..

Oh what a Saviour today, He saves to the uttermost..

 

[Elijah674]

It is True that one is saved by Grace alone. But First God's fallen creation had to accept His COVENANT CONDITIONS! Even baptism meant what????? 'I GIVE UP LORD TO YOUR CONDITIONS!" [DEATH to my old ways] And I SURRENDER ALL like the song goes. Surely the CONDITIONAL PROMISES OF GOD ARE NOT THE PROBLEM with GRACE! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9's GRACE OF CHRIST. But what is the problem with these Heb. 6:6 'EX/MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST' ONES???

Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 finds the END of the O.T.'s rejection of Christ for His True Ex/Virgin Fold. (+ Rev. 17:1-5 churchs) All were to have a MIDNIGHT CRY before this 70AD time came around. (total destruction's LOUD CRY) And both Christ & Paul documented that this 'last time' it would not be 39 years in the future, but CUT SHORT IN RIGHTEOUSNESS. And both times has the House of God judged First! 1 Peter 4:17! 666 follows shortly after this SHAKING, which is their 'Midnight Cry' with its separating of the True Virgin fold from the wheat, and leaving the tares still yoked together in the Christ/less fold, as it did old Israel with their fold door being 'SHUT'. (Matt. 25) Check Rev. 3:9 for who took over Christ's departure both times & what their outcome is & was!

Ezek.9
[1] He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.
(Both there Ending)

[2] And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
(This is the Godhead's 'strange' work, these angels are sent to finish the abomination that they brought upon their/self. See Luke 12:47-48)

[3] And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

[4] And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
(Notice that these are the ONLY ONES THAT ARE SAVED AND SPARED! And what is it that you hear today? don't judge! don't rock the boat! and we need just unity & the love preached to us!! the wheat & the tares grow together! even OPEN FLAGRANT SINNERS, huh! )

[5] And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

(This is a God of Judgement, who has had the Gen. 6:3's STRIVING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT on all of these ones who refuse to be corrected, and their fate is certain & warning has been given over & over again. See Obad. 1:16)

[6] Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
(Begin at My Sanctuary! See again 1 Peter 4:17. And note who were the executed first? The older ones of Leadership! Compare Luke 12:47-48)

[7] And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

[8] And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

[9] Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.

[10] And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

[11] And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

 

[mondar]

It is True that one is saved by Grace alone. But ....

If there is a "But" then are we actually saved by Grace alone?

Can we actually do anything ourselves to contribute to our own salvation? Maybe Adams fall was not a fall, but a minor slip up?

Certainly, as many of the verses you quote suggest, man is a sinner and will be judged by God. However, our obedience is made possible by Grace, and is not a condition of Grace.

If the actions of God's grace is sufficient for our salvation, nothing more is required but God's grace. That is grace alone. If something must be added to God's grace, then Gods grace is insufficient for our salvation and then it is Grace + our efforts.

For me, the cross of Christ is sufficient and completely achieves my salvation. My obedience is enabled because of Christs work, rather then obedience to receive the merits of Christs shed blood.

I done see your position as either "grace alone," nor "faith alone."

 

[savedbygrace57]

mondar:

For me, the cross of Christ is sufficient and completely achieves my salvation.

Do you believe it achieved your obedience of Faith ?

 

[mondar]

mondar:

For me, the cross of Christ is sufficient and completely achieves my salvation.

Do you believe it achieved your obedience of Faith ?

I am surprised that you ask that question of me. Without the cross there would be no regeneration. Without the action of the Holy Spirit in the washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5) there would be no faith. Without the cross, there would be only rebellion, sin, and death. We are by nature sons of wrath (Eph 2:3). We are dead in our trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1) because we all died in Adam (Romans 5:12ff).

The human requirement of faith for justification is not the work of man for God, but the work of God in man.

 

[Joe67]

Jesus has the keys of hell and death.

Through death he destroyed him who had the power of death.

Jesus was the ordained lamb of God. He was the manifested lamb of God. He is the eternal lamb of God standing, as it were slain, in the midst of the throne, the 4 beasts and the 24 elders. He is a priest forever.

We are made conformable to his death. Are we made conformable to his death in this present evil world? Were we made conformable to his death before we were formed in the womb?

Joe

 

[XTruth]

Salvation is conditional, just like all other gifts, blessings and covenants of God. Being saved by grace alone (Eph.2:8-9; Tit.3:5) (couple with Jas.2:24) only means that all your past sins (Eze.18:24-26; Rom.3:25; 2 Pt.1:9) are only taken away by grace and of no works of your own. We are justified (made innocent) by having no sins on our account. If you sin again, then you are guilty again and must repent again (Jas.1:15; 1 Jn.1:9; 3:4). One must meet certain conditions and remain in the way of righteousness to be saved (Ex. 32:32-33; Lev. 26; Dt. 28; 1Ki. 2:3-4; Ezek. 3:18-21; 18:4-34; 33:11-20; Mt. 6:24; Jn. 8:32-36; 15:1-8; Rom. 1:18-32; 6:16-23; 8:1-13; 11:14-32; 1Cor. 3:16-17; 6:9-11; 9:27; 2Cor. 11:3-4; Gal. 1:6-9; 5:4,16-26; 6:7-8; Col. 1:23; 2:6-7; 1Th. 3:8; 1Tim. 1:19; 4:1-8; 5:11-15; 6:19-21; 2Tim. 2:12-18; 4:10; Heb. 3:6,11-14; 4:1-11; 6:4-12; 10:26-38; 12:14-15; Jas. 5:19-20; 1Pet. 1:5,9,13; 2Pet. 1:3-10; 3:17-18; 1Jn. 2:24; 2Jn. 1:9-10; Rev. 3:5; 22:18-19).

Here is the most researched book I've ever found on the subject... www.conditionalsalvation.com/free_book ...This 337,000+ word book would be 1,348 pages long if published and at the average of 250 words per page. It proves the simplicity of salvation and just how conditional it is from Genesis through Revelation. Its easy to use... all you have to do is think of a verse that you would use to prove "Once Saved Always Saved" and turn there in the book as it flows in the same order as the Bible (Gen-Rev). Salvation is very conditional. All eternal things are only a hope and very forfeitable until one receives them as unforfeitable at death or the Rapture (of the faithful/obedient/overcomer/real Christian)

Hope this book helps any and/or all in the future... Its completely FREE

 

[Elijah674]

It is True that one is saved by Grace alone. But ....

If there is a "But" then are we actually saved by Grace alone?

Can we actually do anything ourselves to contribute to our own salvation? Maybe Adams fall was not a fall, but a minor slip up?

Certainly, as many of the verses you quote suggest, man is a sinner and will be judged by God. However, our obedience is made possible by Grace, and is not a condition of Grace.

If the actions of God's grace is sufficient for our salvation, nothing more is required but God's grace. That is grace alone. If something must be added to God's grace, then Gods grace is insufficient for our salvation and then it is Grace + our efforts.

For me, the cross of Christ is sufficient and completely achieves my salvation. My obedience is enabled because of Christs work, rather then obedience to receive the merits of Christs shed blood.

I done see your position as either "grace alone," nor "faith alone."

Please understand that 'i' am replying to the post! And are you saying

Are you saying that you don't see..? If so, this is my belief... Grace alone IS FROM GOD! Faith [alone] is fron satan! James 2:20, James 2:14, James 2:24. Any who LOVE CHRIST WILL FAITHFULLY KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. Even satan has that kind of believing faith. James 2:19 has it the whole pack of devil S.

Again Gods creation is telling the universe that they are robots?? yet there was perfect Lucifer + angels without any condemnation! as Rom. 8:1 us'ins.. with the IF BUT OR WHATEVER you want to CONDITION'IONAL'ISM Rom. 8:14 to mean??? Then Adam who was created 'VERY GOOD' (PERFECT.. unless God creates an flawed product?) And the Second Adam came to do what??? Isa. 42:21 does not FINISH OFF GODS LAW! And Heb. 13:11 ones ALL DIED IN THE FAITH! (is that you yet????)

And these of 2 Peter 2:19's Promises of liberty?? And some think that God (Christ) has not MAGNIFIED HIS LAW?? Christ's EPISTLE LETTER TO US'INS??? Lust when finished IS ADULTERY! James 1:15 And hate??

And this carnal stuff is not OFFENDING to God's BORN AGAIN ONE??? Eze. 13: 22 'Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and [strengthened the hands of the wicked,] that he should not return from his wicked ways, [by promising him life.']

And what does one constantly hear on all of these forums??? Never [hardly] an above mention for who are the Matt. 7 BROADWAY ONES or the Rev. 17:1-5 ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH ones, so that they or [[[WE]]] might believe the Truth, instead of THESE ABOVE LIES!

And if the Lords Word gets to strong (loud)?? It gets LOCKED, huh? Isa. 59:1-2 + Isa. 58:!

--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

mondar:

For me, the cross of Christ is sufficient and completely achieves my salvation.

Do you believe it achieved your obedience of Faith ?

I am surprised that you ask that question of me. Without the cross there would be no regeneration. Without the action of the Holy Spirit in the washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5) there would be no faith. Without the cross, there would be only rebellion, sin, and death. We are by nature sons of wrath (Eph 2:3). We are dead in our trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1) because we all died in Adam (Romans 5:12ff).

The human requirement of faith for justification is not the work of man for God, but the work of God in man.

Did the work of Christ achieve the obedience of faith for all men or for some only ?

mondar:

The human requirement of faith for justification

How is Faith a requirement for Justification ? According to my understanding, Justification is result of the obedience of Jesus christ for His people rom 5:

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[francisdesales]

If the actions of God's grace is sufficient for our salvation, nothing more is required but God's grace. That is grace alone. If something must be added to God's grace, then Gods grace is insufficient for our salvation and then it is Grace + our efforts.

Faulty logic alert...

I can provide you a "sufficient" key to start your car, perfect in any way, unique that nothing else will start this car, without which NOTHING you can do will start it - but if YOU refuse to use it, what does that say about the "sufficient" key? Nothing. It speaks about someone's desire not to use it. The key is sufficient, but not efficient, because the car was not started. Do I "provide" something to the key? No, the key will start the car WHEN USED.

Grace will save - when utilized by man.

God's grace is sufficient to save EVERY man, just as Adam's sin is sufficient to condemn EVERY man - so says Romans. Christ died for ALL men because God desires ALL men to be saved, that the sin OF THE WORLD be healed. We are not adding to God's grace, we are utilizing it (or choosing not to utilize it), which ITSELF is a freely-granted grace.

This treads on the subject of secondary causes, a subject that Calvinists overlook when reading Augustine...

Regards

 

[Elijah674]

If the actions of God's grace is sufficient for our salvation, nothing more is required but God's grace. That is grace alone. If something must be added to God's grace, then Gods grace is insufficient for our salvation and then it is Grace + our efforts.

Faulty logic alert...

I can provide you a "sufficient" key to start your car, perfect in any way, unique that nothing else will start this car, without which NOTHING you can do will start it - but if YOU refuse to use it, what does that say about the "sufficient" key? Nothing. It speaks about someone's desire not to use it. The key is sufficient, but not efficient, because the car was not started. Do I "provide" something to the key? No, the key will start the car WHEN USED.

Grace will save - when utilized by man.

God's grace is sufficient to save EVERY man, just as Adam's sin is sufficient to condemn EVERY man - so says Romans. Christ died for ALL men because God desires ALL men to be saved, that the sin OF THE WORLD be healed. We are not adding to God's grace, we are utilizing it (or choosing not to utilize it), which ITSELF is a freely-granted grace.

This treads on the subject of secondary causes, a subject that Calvinists overlook when reading Augustine...

Regards

Very good! I must quickly wonder about required MATURITY now, huh? And it's reason why! Nahum 1:9

--Elijah

 

[chestertonrules]

Heb 10:

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The word here perfected is the greek word:
teleio? and means:

to make perfect, complete

a) to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
2) to complete (perfect)

These became that way perfected, by the one offering of christ, not by their freewill, their faith, their repentance..but they were perfected, and that forever, by the one offering of Jesus christ for them..

Also, this is to whom paul preached his gospel to, when he says, we speak to them that are perfect as in 1 cor 2:

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

That is, he speaks the word of the gospel unto or among them that are made perfect or perfected by the offering of christ..

When it comes to salvation, thats who God sovereignly directs the gospel too..those perfected by the Offering of christ..this omits the seed of the devil..

The word perfected in our text also is in the perfect tense in the greek, which denotes once and for all, permanetly, not to be undone..

Now more specifically, to whom is the writer of hebrews 10 14 referring to ?

Those that are sanctified.. can one be sanctified before they are born ? Yes as we see in Jer 1:

5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

All the chosen of God are sanctified by God the Father, before they actually exist in the time state, this is the sense of jude:

1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

The chosen are too sanctified by the offering or death of christ heb 10:

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This too is in the perfect tense in the greek..there is not a time when the elect, even when dead in tresspasses and sins, are not sanctified..that is having been set apart for a specific Divine and Holy Purpose..being born sinners doesnt set that purpose aside..

Jesus prays about the sanctifying effects of those he dies for jn 17:

19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Here, Jesus is terming his death as sanctifying himself, in order that, they [all those given him jn 17 3] will in time, be sanctified by or through the Truth [the true gospel]

Also the Holy Ghost sanctifies the elect, as an answer to Jesus prayer right above. He does sanctify the chosen ones with the Truth 2 nd thess 2:

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

These sanctifed ones are perfected forever.. this is their eternal security, the blood of christ..His present intercession for them contributes to their eternal security..as we note in rom 8:

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

and heb 7:

25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Interestingly, the word for uttermost in the greek is the word:

pantel?s and it means:

all complete, perfect
2) completely, perfectly, utterly

This Ideal is in sync with what i have shown previously already, as the effects of the once and for all, perfection of the one offering of christ, for those who are once and for all sanctified..



Oh what Security, the True Child of God has..blessed be the name of the LORD..

We will only be saved if we endure. We need God's grace to be saved, but we must cooperate in order to reach heaven.

1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".

2 Timothy 2:12 "If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us".

2 Peter 2:20-21 "They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."

Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father."


Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."

Hebrews 10:29 "How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit?"

 

[Geo]

thanks XTruth, just found something inside your book recommendation that sure is priceless:

(Q-1) Can one be born again more than once?
(A-1) (PAGE 155... Jeremiah 4:1-4); (PAGE 274... John 3:3) (PAGES 346-349... Galatians 4:19-20; Galatians 5:1-7)

Now I get it. I heard this saying before, and always wondered if it was the correct interpretation. Of course it is ! We can be born again, again.

-----

And to the question of Maturity: brilliant ! Yes, meeting Conditions does NOT mean earning by works

 

[Elijah674]

thanks XTruth, just found something inside your book recommendation that sure is priceless:

(Q-1) Can one be born again more than once?
(A-1) (PAGE 155... Jeremiah 4:1-4); (PAGE 274... John 3:3) (PAGES 346-349... Galatians 4:19-20; Galatians 5:1-7)

Now I get it. I heard this saying before, and always wondered if it was the correct interpretation. Of course it is ! We can be born again, again.

-----

And to the question of Maturity: brilliant ! Yes, meeting Conditions does NOT mean earning by works

Hi. on the Born Again question. I don't see it that way at all! I see it as the START of the walk to perfection. Phil. 4:13 It is the required FIRST Heb. 6:1-5 POSSITIVES! (only) Heb. 6:6 proves that it is no a done deal until one is mature one way or the other.

Christ is now our High Priest for us when we sin. Persumptous sins are our danger! (Psalms 19:13) The one or two time sins are not the problem, it is the Once Born again Saint (or no christian) not following the Holy Spirits LEADING of Rom. 8:14 that is! (Even though he has Been Born Again & has at this start NO CONDEMNATION. To freely balk at Gods Leading will in time find the one UNREACHABLE in time! Check out the Pre/Flood ones of Gen. 6:3 for refusing the Holy Spirits STRIVING.

The text needed for study is 1 John 5:16-17 SIN NOT UNTO DEATH & then its James 1:15 MATURE FINISH UNTO DEATH if that be the case. It is the refuseual to be LED that brings on the Matt. 12:31-32 FATAL SIN. And perhaps the number one problem with preacher's is the terible sin of omission, not so much as commission. That of knowing that there is open false doctrines being taught for truth with narry a word of rebuke. So we see Rev. 17:1-5.

And the reason for this?? See John 12:42-43

--Elijah

 

[XTruth]

Five Commands to be Perfect:

1. To Abraham (Genesis 17:1)
2. To Israel (Deut. 18:13)
3. To Solomon (1 Kings 8:61)
4. To Christians (2 Cor. 13:11)
5. To Every Human (Mat.5:48)

Ten Things in which We can be Perfect:

1. In our walk (Genesis 17:1; Galatians 5:16,25)
2. In holiness (2 Cor. 7:1; Hebrews 12:14)
3. In our ways (2 Samuel 22:33; Psalm 18:32)
4. In peace (Isaiah 26:3)
5. In unity (John 17:23; 1 Cor. 1:10; Ephes. 4:13)
6. In good works (Hebrews 13:21; 2 Tim. 3:17)
7. In God's will (Romans 12:1-2)
8. In patience (James 1:4)
9. In faith (James 2:22)
10. In love (1 John 2:5; 1 John 4:17-18)

We are to be perfect now... meaning complete in conformity to the entire covenant/Word/gospel program. It simply means to be sin free. We must be obedient to come to Jesus for remission of all past sins and then be obedient to continue following Him. It's the same as when John told us to be as pure as Christ (1 Jn.3:1-5) and when Peter tells us to be as holy as God (1 Pt.1:15-17). We can be perfect/ righteous/ holy/ pure/ faultless/ blameless/ without blemish, wrinkle, spot or any such thing NOW...But it is not unforfeitable until the overcomer dies or is raptured.

Salvation is a hope and not actually an unforfeitable possession until the next life (1Th. 5:8; Rom. 8:20-25; 2Th. 2:16; 1Pet. 1:5,9,13). Eternal life is also a hope now, even though we possess it (Tit. 1:2; 3:7; Heb. 3:6; 6:11,11,18-19; 1Pet. 1:3,13). It will not actually be an unforfeitable and an eternal possession until the next life and at the end of a life of sowing to the Spirit (Mt. 7:13-14; 18:8-9; 19:28-29; Mk. 10:29-30; Lk. 18:29-30; Rom. 2:7; 6:21-23; Gal. 6:7-8; 1Tim. 1:16; 4:8; 6:12,19; 1Pet. 1:5,9,13; 3:7; 1Jn. 2:25; Jude 1:20-24; Dan. 12:2; Jn. 5:28-29).

Does this make sense???

 

[savedbygrace57]

By the offering of Himself, all for whom Christ died, are sanctified and perfected forever. This is a truth of the everlasting Gospel from the Throne of Heaven. The Lord Jesus Christ death, has put away the sins of all the elect of God, and His blood cleanses and purifies them from all unrighteousness. On top of that we [ the elect]have received by imputation or by Divine Reckoning, the Perfect, Spotless, Unblemished Righteousness of Christ as a free gift, laid onto our account, Given Purely by Grace..

 

[Geo]

Maybe we can view sanctification to contain more than previously expected. Whenever someone repents in public (what is very rare these days) I would call that a breakthrough in sanctification, or also since today born-again, again, a radical change and the expression of it. We can not only totally fall away (anti-osas), we also can partially go astray or fall asleep at the wheel and take a wrong turn along the way. Would we be saved if we would physically die in such a state?. Without knowing the exact case it's still a "not likely" if a major delusion is involved at that time. When the "door is shut" it's too late to repent of that.

Basically final sanctification is perfection. Born-again, again is an expression that is trying to decribe a state when "the Holy Spirit is active again without ANY hindrance caused by a dearly held delusion" That hindered us just previously to accept and live the full gospel. When something like a stronghold kept dearly to our heart for years is cast out ! - Then Faith has no enemy or double mindedness anymore that day. Today when you hear His voice.....

First time I paid attention to differentiation was when I was on a 100% pre-trib message board. What i thought to be at least partially based on truth at that time. Until one fine day a brother brought the biblically correct teaching to that forum. Just before he got banned (without finding any fault on his side - yet the owner had another jesus telling him in person that pre-trib was the "correct view" so he couldn't stand it to hear a conflicting message. He of course said it's for the protection of the members) So while the biblically true one was still with us he made a comment that included a confession that he was a pre-tribber for something close to 10 or 15 years, and then was born again when he also accepted the truth about the rapture question at the same time.

myself I would agree and call my own past while being pre-trib a major stronghold that blinded me, not totally, but partially to the extend that found me expressing vain ideas based on that exact partial blindness. When any doctrinal base is wrong - everthing you build on that sounds like revelation to yourself and other like minded - while brothers without that handicap know and see that your story is vain and unlogical nonsense. But we ourselves don't know that, and respond with "that's your opinion". Such is the nature of deception. It's like calling pre-trib "our blessed hope" without finding any fault with that. Not aware that this is totally missing it. What is false doctrine, what are strongholds? Nothing but very smart lies regarded as The truth, so there is a conflict whether realized or not, it's still there. And the reason given: it's a legal ground of attack for the enemy. Yes he's allowed to attack us on his own playground, which covers lies and the belief in them.

James 4:7  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.