perfected forever

[glorydaz]

In case I wasn't clear... we are found in Him...not having our own righteousness...but the righteousness of Christ.

8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

This is what "justified" by faith is all about.

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran:

All men = EVERYONE

everyone of the chosen seed of abraham..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Philippians 3:12

This talks about the reality of what it means to saints personally.

It's the "practical implementation" and how an apostle views it without any dogma of men

Heb 10 14 is not about personal experience of the one perfected forever, but of their position before God..God sees them as perfected forever because of what christ done for them..but they dont experience this perfection all at once, but it is sure that they will..

 

[francisdesales]

fran:

All men = EVERYONE

everyone of the chosen seed of abraham..

Where does the Bible say "all men = the chosen seed of abraham"?

"look, the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the WORLD" means everyone. See Romans 5, if you can be bothered to open the Bible...

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran:

Where does the Bible say "all men = the chosen seed of abraham"?

Where does the bible say that all men do not = the chosen seed of abraham ?

The seed of abraham is comprised of all different ethnic groups within all nations gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

So in this respect, He is the Father of all men, not just ethnic jews..

 

[francisdesales]

The seed of abraham is comprised of all different ethnic groups within all nations gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

So in this respect, He is the Father of all men, not just ethnic jews..

He is not the father of all men. Only those with faith in the One God. The father of all men would be Adam.

Regards

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran:

He is not the father of all men.

He is the Father of all ethnic groups who have been given faith..God only gives Faith to the seed of abraham of all nations..

Abraham had a seed in all nations given him, not just jews..gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee

 

[francisdesales]

fran:

He is not the father of all men.

He is the Father of all ethnic groups who have been given faith..God only gives Faith to the seed of abraham of all nations..

Abraham had a seed in all nations given him, not just jews..gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee

I don't get your point. We agree that Abraham is our father in faith.

But Christ died for ALL men - not just the seed of Abraham. Nor are we perfected before birth.

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran:

I don't get your point

I know you dont, thats obvious ..

We agree that Abraham is our father in faith.

First of all, I dont agree with nothing you say, get that straight, and secondly, abrahams seed is His seed before they believe..

Isaac was abrahams son before He was born and He was a child of God before He believed..by promise..

 

[chestertonrules]

fran:

I don't get your point

I know you dont, thats obvious ..

[quote:55virmru]We agree that Abraham is our father in faith.

First of all, I dont agree with nothing you say, get that straight, and secondly, abrahams seed is His seed before they believe..

Isaac was abrahams son before He was born and He was a child of God before He believed..by promise..[/quote:55virmru]



God wants all men, every single person including the wicked, to repent and follow his will.


Do you disagree with this?

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran:

I don't get your point

I know you dont, thats obvious ..

[quote:2xrxyzm7]We agree that Abraham is our father in faith.

First of all, I dont agree with nothing you say, get that straight, and secondly, abrahams seed is His seed before they believe..

Isaac was abrahams son before He was born and He was a child of God before He believed..by promise..

God wants all men, every single person including the wicked, to repent and follow his will.


Do you disagree with this?[/quote:2xrxyzm7]

Yes, I disagree with it, for God does not want all men to repent, and all men do follow His sovereign will, even those men who are going to hell..

 

[XTruth]

You are awfully cocky to think you are chosen above another for eternal life. All may have it. God is no respecter of persons. All who come and repent are forgiven at that point; however, God is no respecter of persons and all who choose sin after repentance are condemned again until further repentance (Eze.18:24-32)

2 Pt.3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Tim.2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Rev.22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 3:16-21
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[savedbygrace57]

xtruth:

You are awfully cocky to think you are chosen above another for eternal life.

I was not chosen alone, a multitude was chosen..but in comparison to how many people ever lived, its a small flock..

 

[francisdesales]

Double post...

 

[francisdesales]

I don't get your point

I know you dont, thats obvious ..

Yes, thanks to you...

We agree that Abraham is our father in faith.

First of all, I dont agree with nothing you say, get that straight, and secondly, abrahams seed is His seed before they believe..

You don't agree that Abraham is the believer's father in faith? Where exactly is this going?

Your second statement makes no sense. EVERONE in the world is "God's seed" before they believe, since God created the universe, both those who later acquire faith and people who become evil and reject the same gift.

 

[chestertonrules]

[

Yes, I disagree with it, for God does not want all men to repent, and all men do follow His sovereign will, even those men who are going to hell..

Are these verses missing from your bible?

2 Pet 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Eze 33:11
Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!

Isa 55:7
Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.

Eze 18:23
"Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

Acts 3:19
"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

1 Tim 2:4
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[francisdesales]

Yes, I disagree with it, for God does not want all men to repent, and all men do follow His sovereign will, even those men who are going to hell..

Are these verses missing from your bible?

2 Pet 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Eze 33:11
Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!

Isa 55:7
Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.

Eze 18:23
"Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

Acts 3:19
"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

1 Tim 2:4
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

They aren't missing from his bible, his pastor hasn't told him to read those verses, as they turn the "paradigm" upside down...

Regards

 

[Elijah674]

Salvation was a plan for MANKIND!

There was No Jew, or the land of Israel at the beginning! just Mankind! All of one language, and God communed with them by His one Speech. They all were given the LIBERTY to Obey God or to Reject God.

Gen.11
[1] And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
[2] And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
[3] And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
[4] And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
[5] And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
[6] And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
[7] Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
[8] So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

If one was spiritually sharp, they could see why God gave the prophesied gift of tongues in Acts at least.

And God spoke directly to His creation up until Mount Sinai when He Spoke, + the Giving the two Written Tables of His Eternal Heb. 13:20 Covenant. Christ's Epistle Letter of the Godhead's Moral Character to mankind in STONE + LAW of Agape Love! 2 Cor. 3:3. In Deut. 5:22-31 we see that God spoke no more directly to them at large! (per their request Also, this is where we soon see Israel the Jewish PEDIGREE go full swing into the Lord's Virgin Sanctuary Teaching of His REQUIRED DOCTRINES.. but in TYPES only! In other words, Christ's WAY of Psalms 77:13 was to DIRECT ALL OF MANKIND INTO THE ETERNAL GOSPEL of Rev. 14:6!)

OK: We need a couple facts! We want the date of Gen. 12:1-5 Where God called Abe long before we see Why God called him in Gen. 26:5. The date there is BC1804 & the conversation with Isaac is not the point at all! The REASON GOD CALLED ABE in the First place is the point! And that is the POINT because we see here in verse Gen. 26:5 that Abe. was KEEPING All of Gods Commandments
[4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
[5] Because that Abraham obeyed [[my voice,]] and kept my charge, [[my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.]]

First this above verse of Gen. 26.
OK: Now the long time between Abe's CALL of Gen. 12 Dated BC1921 And this was way before they were written out & given to the ones CALLED ISRAEL

[1] Now the LORD had said unto Abram, (SPOKEN DIRECTLY!) Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
[2] And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
[3] And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

[4] So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

OK: we found that Abe was a DOER OF GODS SPOKEN WORD! We found that HE KEPT HIS COMMANDMENTS! We found THAT HE RECEIVED THESE COMMANDMENTS DIRECTLY BY THE LORDS VOICE! Now, here we find that Abe was ALSO A GENTILE SOUL WINNER.. And A Gentile Also was Abe here!

[5] And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

OK: The devil does not like this Inspiration because it shows that the Eternal Covenant IS ETERNAL as well as THE ETERNAL GOSPEL of.. again Rev. 14: & Heb. 13:20! Ask yourself how many months it takes for the Holy Spirit to convert sinners to the Gospel from your ministry? And here we see PLURAL of Souls gotten in Haran! So the space from Abe's call & Mount Sinai was quite a Span of Obedient Abe! And friends, Acts 4:12 tells us that there was & IS NO OTHER NAME GIVEN [AMONG MEN] WHEREBY YE MUST BE SAVED!

And surely we must see Noah who Peter Documents as a preacher of RIGHTEOUSNESS. And what did he PREACH but Jesus Christ, (Gen. 3:15's ETERNAL GOSPEL!) And he did this for 120 years with the Holy Spirit STRIVING WITH THESE PRE/FLOOD ONES! And today we see the same history being repeated with the Rev. 17:1-5 church's for well past this 120 year period of the Holy Spirit trying to LEAD! See again Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:13.

And as surely as Abe was called because he Obeyed the conditions that God laid for perfect [Maturity] so were all the Son's of God from Adam on through Rev. ! Each and every one understood that 1 John 3 ..
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

was held out for their Working Mature Rule Faith! And that is was Only Possible Through the Promised Savior! Phil 4:13 + His Eternal Grace of 2 Cor. 12:9. And anything else?? Was a cop/out!

We see in Eccl. 12 the Finished End result of Maturity one way or the other equated other..
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Did you catch that Word of WORK?? Notice the other END as seen here in 1 John 2

[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, (or loveth) and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: [hereby know we that we are in him.]

--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

[

Yes, I disagree with it, for God does not want all men to repent, and all men do follow His sovereign will, even those men who are going to hell..

Are these verses missing from your bible?

2 Pet 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Eze 33:11
Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!

Isa 55:7
Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.

Eze 18:23
"Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

Acts 3:19
"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

1 Tim 2:4
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God desires only the elect to repent..

 

[savedbygrace57]

elijah:

Salvation was a plan for MANKIND!

The elect of mankind..