Persons in the Trinity?

[thessalonian]

Okay a question came up in another thread that interests me as I have not delved in to it before. Classic trinitarian thought says there are three persons in one God. Common usuage of the word person seems to have it synonymous with individual humans. But the religous/philosophycal definition seems to go beyond this and define person as a being"

A person is defined by philosophers as a being who is in possession of a range of psychological capacities that are regarded as both necessary and sufficient to fulfill the requirements of personhood. These are, in general, that it is capable of reasoning, that it is self-conscious, and that it has an identity that persists through time. The English philosopher John Locke defined a person as "a thinking intelligent Being, that has reason and reflection, and can consider it self as it self, the same thinking thing in different times and places; which it does only by that consciousness, which is inseparable from thinking, and as it seems to me essential to it" (Essay on Humane Understanding, Book 2, Chapter 27, Section 9).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person

Okay, so let's discuss scripturally and otherwise if/why the Holy Spirit for instance is a person. Some have claimed there is a definitive answer to the contrary in scripture so this is the place to give it.


Engage

Blessings

 

[MrVersatile48]

"Questions On The Christian Faith Answered From The Bible", by Roger Forster, has a very good section on this

He quotes many verses that show the Spirit doing things that no impersonal force could do: speaking, grieving, etc

& other factors that I can't recall in this heat :

Hope that helps :wink:

Ian

 

[Fat]

Re: Person in the Trinity?

Okay a question came up in another thread that interests me as I have not delved in to it before. Classic trinitarian thought says there are three persons in one God. Common usuage of the word person seems to have it synonymous with individual humans. But the religous/philosophycal definition seems to go beyond this and define person as a being"

A person is defined by philosophers as a being who is in possession of a range of psychological capacities that are regarded as both necessary and sufficient to fulfill the requirements of personhood. These are, in general, that it is capable of reasoning, that it is self-conscious, and that it has an identity that persists through time. The English philosopher John Locke defined a person as "a thinking intelligent Being, that has reason and reflection, and can consider it self as it self, the same thinking thing in different times and places; which it does only by that consciousness, which is inseparable from thinking, and as it seems to me essential to it" (Essay on Humane Understanding, Book 2, Chapter 27, Section 9).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person

Okay, so let's discuss scripturally and otherwise if/why the Holy Spirit for instance is a person. Some have claimed there is a definitive answer to the contrary in scripture so this is the place to give it.


Engage

Blessings

Can we, "man," define the Spirit?

I Corinthians
2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural man being unspiritual, is this not something that God will communicate to the elect?

Fat

 

[thessalonian]

Here is a set up passages that seems to inidcate the HS is a person:

http://scripturecatholic.com/the_holy_s ... _coming-II

Hmmmmm.... The Bible appears to be using "PERSONal pronouns" when speaking about the Holy Spirit.

Luke 12:12 - the Holy Spirit will teach you in that hour what you ought to say. He (the Holy Spirit) teaches the faithful.

John 14:17 - the world neither sees Him or knows Him ("Him" is referring to the Holy Spirit). You know Him for He dwells with you.

John 14:26 - the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all I have said to you.

John 15:26 - the Spirit, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness to me. He = the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a person, not a thing.

John 16:7 - if I do not go, the Counselor will not come to you. But if I go, I (Jesus) will send Him to you.

John 16:7 - this verse also proves the filioque (that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son). The Father isn’t just loving the Son; the Son is loving the Father in return, in the same Spirit of love. Therefore, the Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son.

John 16: 8 - when He (the Holy Spirit) comes, He will convince the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment.

John 16:13-14 - when the Spirit of truth comes He will guide you into all truth. He will speak, He will declare and He will glorify.

Acts 8:29; 10:19-20; 11:12;13:2; Rev. 22:17 - the Holy Spirit speaks to us like a human person.

Acts 15:25,28 - it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us. The Holy Spirit, as a divine person, thinks and makes judgments.

Rom. 8:26 - the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words. It is the Spirit Himself, not itself.

Rom. 8:16 - it is the Spirit Himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God. The Spirit is a person.

Rom. 15:30 - I appeal to you by the Lord Jesus and the love of the Spirit. Only persons, rational beings, can love.

1 Cor. 12:11 - the Holy Spirit apportions His gifts to each one individually as He wills. He is the third person of the Godhead.

2 Cor. 13:14 - the Holy Spirit can have fellowship with the faithful like a human person.

Eph. 4:30 - the Holy Spirit can be grieved, just as human persons can be grieved.

 

[undertow]

John 16:7 - this verse also proves the filioque (that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son). The Father isn?t just loving the Son; the Son is loving the Father in return, in the same Spirit of love. Therefore, the Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son.

Perhaps not. You can always deny that the economic Trinity in this instance reflects the inner-trinitarian relationship.

 

[jgredline]

Thessalonian

See if this makes sense to you.
Infact I think I will add it to my signiture

God is one in essence, but three in persons. God has one nature, but three centers of consciousness. That is, there is only one What in God, but there are three whos. There is one it, but three I’s. This is a mystery, but not a contradiction. It would be contradictory to say God was only one person, but also was three persons. Or that God is only one nature, but that he also has three natures. But to declare as orthodox Christians do, that God is one essence, eternally revealed in three distinct persons is not a contradiction.

 

[destiny]

John 15:26
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which (proceedeth from the Father), he shall testify of me:


I always thought of the Holy Spirt as a personal manifestation of God within us.

 

[jgredline]

John 15:26
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which (proceedeth from the Father), he shall testify of me:


I always thought of the Holy Spirt as a personal manifestation of God within us.

Destiny
Many people like TD JAKES for example believe that the Holy sprit is a manefestation of Holy God. That is for the most part Oneness penticostal teachings that have proven to be false.
http://www.letusreason.org/popteac9.htm
http://www.pfo.org/jakes.html
The reason I use T.D. Jakes is because he came to mind. I could have choosen other cults who deny the diety of christ.

 

[destiny]

John 15:26
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which (proceedeth from the Father), he shall testify of me:


I always thought of the Holy Spirt as a personal manifestation of God within us.

Destiny
Many people like TD JAKES for example believe that the Holy sprit is a manefestation of Holy God. That is for the most part Oneness penticostal teachings that have proven to be false.
http://www.letusreason.org/popteac9.htm
http://www.pfo.org/jakes.html
The reason I use T.D. Jakes is because he came to mind. I could have choosen other cults who deny the diety of christ.

I'm not a oneness believer 'jgredline'!
I believe in God the father, Jesus the Son, and that the Father comes back to us in the form of the Holy Spirit.
Is that triune?
Whatever it is, I am sure i'm wrong according to the forum. LOL

 

[jgredline]

John 15:26
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which (proceedeth from the Father), he shall testify of me:


I always thought of the Holy Spirt as a personal manifestation of God within us.

Destiny
Many people like TD JAKES for example believe that the Holy sprit is a manefestation of Holy God. That is for the most part Oneness penticostal teachings that have proven to be false.
http://www.letusreason.org/popteac9.htm
http://www.pfo.org/jakes.html
The reason I use T.D. Jakes is because he came to mind. I could have choosen other cults who deny the diety of christ.

I'm not a oneness believer 'jgredline'!
I believe in God the father, Jesus the Son, and that the Father comes back to us in the form of the Holy Spirit.
Is that triune?
Whatever it is, I am sure i'm wrong according to the forum. LOL

Destiny
The God head is made up of three equal parts.
God the father
Jesus
Holy spirit.
All three are GOD and are co equal.

God is one in essence, but three in persons. God has one nature, but three centers of consciousness. That is, there is only one What in God, but there are three whos.
There is one it, but three I’s. This is a mystery, but not a contradiction. It would be contradictory to say God was only one person, but also was three persons. Or that God is only one nature, but that he also has three natures. But to declare as orthodox Christians do, that God is one essence, eternally revealed in three distinct persons is not a contradiction.

I did not mean to imply you are oneness. I applologize and ask to be forgiven. In this forum I have counted 5 differant Jesus and so I need to ask. Which Jesus are you talking about? This way I know what I am dealing with.
JG

 

[destiny]

In this forum I have counted 5 differant Jesus and so I need to ask. Which Jesus are you talking about? This way I know what I am dealing with.

And that, jgredline, is why I will withdraw from the topic. I believe that Jesus Is God to us, yet seperate in person from the father.
He is the supremacy of the Father through which no man can be saved, nor come to the father except through the Son.
If that makes me a heretic then so be it, but I base my understanding on the word as I see it, and not man.
I should have known better than to jump in this....someone please kick me!! :-D

 

[Free]

but I base my understanding on the word and not man.

But that is what everyone claims. Is there any reason why your position is the only one based on the Word and not the Trinitarian's or Oneness' or JW's or someone else's?

 

[destiny]

but I base my understanding on the word and not man.

But that is what everyone claims. Is there any reason why your position is the only one based on the Word and not the Trinitarian's or Oneness' or JW's or someone else's?

Or your position as well...or anyone elses for that matter.

 

[jgredline]

In this forum I have counted 5 differant Jesus and so I need to ask. Which Jesus are you talking about? This way I know what I am dealing with.

And that, jgredline, is why I will withdraw from the topic. I believe that Jesus Is God to us, yet seperate in person from the father.
He is the supremacy of the Father through which no man can be saved, nor come to the father except through the Son.
If that makes me a heretic then so be it, but I base my understanding on the word as I see it, and not man.
I should have known better than to jump in this....someone please kick me!! :-D

Well you said it.

 

[Georges]

In this forum I have counted 5 differant Jesus and so I need to ask. Which Jesus are you talking about? This way I know what I am dealing with.

And that, jgredline, is why I will withdraw from the topic. I believe that Jesus Is God to us, yet seperate in person from the father.
He is the supremacy of the Father through which no man can be saved, nor come to the father except through the Son.
If that makes me a heretic then so be it, but I base my understanding on the word as I see it, and not man.
I should have known better than to jump in this....someone please kick me!! :-D

Although I can see you are a multi-poster, your last sentence put a smile on my face....all I can say is "WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE, BABY"....... :-D

 

[Vic C.]

I should have known better than to jump in this....someone please kick me!!

Hand over your peanut butter first! :-D

 

[jgredline]

Georges
I don't care what they say about you, I like you. :-D

 

[Vic C.]

Be alert everyone... the world needs more lerts. : :

 

[destiny]

I should have known better than to jump in this....someone please kick me!!

Hand over your peanut butter first! :-D

You can pick up all my peanuts off the ground after I lose them in the beating i'm gonna get.
Theres no loyalty among our kind. :

 

[Georges]

Georges
I don't care what they say about you, I like you. :-D

Ditto...and that would be genuine.... :smt057 Bet you wish you'd seen that icon first... :D

J, I'm not a doom and gloom guy and don't like crossing swords with anyone...I am however a free thinker and like to think I challenge everyone on out of the box theologies.

The forum would be a very boring place if everyone thought the same, no?