Persons in the Trinity?

[Free]

I will try an explanation of the term "Persons" as it applies to the Godhead.

First, it must be stated that "Person" is just a human term used to describe how God has revealed himself in Scripture; that it isn't explicitly used in Scripture is irrelevant. The biggest problem with the use of "Person" is the way that we so often use it in everyday life: "look at that person"; "what is that person doing?"; "you wouldn't believe what this person did to me"; and so on. In other words, we equate the term "person" with the physical body or presence when in actual fact it includes much more than that.

The Bible clearly speaks of the Father and Son in "personal" terms. This includes the use of personal pronouns and language that is indicative of what we would use to describe a human person, or more specifically, human personality - they act, will, think, etc. And this language is also used when speaking of the Holy Spirit, which is why he is referred to as "he" and not "it".

These are just some quick thoughts which I reserve the right to revise at any time. ;) Anyone is free to add to it.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Classic trinitarian thought says there are three persons in one God. Common usuage of the word person seems to have it synonymous with individual humans. But the religous/philosophycal definition seems to go beyond this and define person as a being

I think that is backwards. Any living entity is a being, but a "person" is used of beings vested with a self-consciousness and intelligence on the level of a human being or greater. In example, a dog is a being, but is not a person (though it could be said to "have" person, but that is a different connotation) That is the general understanding and usage. All persons are beings, but not all beings are persons.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Classic trinitarian thought says there are three persons in one God. Common usuage of the word person seems to have it synonymous with individual humans. But the religous/philosophycal definition seems to go beyond this and define person as a being

I think that is backwards. Any living entity is a being, but a "person" is used of beings vested with a self-consciousness and intelligence on the level of a human being or greater. In example, a dog is a being, but is not a person (though it could be said to "have" person, but that is a different connotation) That is the general understanding and usage. All persons are beings, but not all beings are persons.

Therefore, if God is 3 persons, God is 3 beings, and there are 3 Gods. But if the persons are not individual beings, then are they roles or aspects of one person(being)? If so this is Modalism and not Trinitarianism. What T-ism is looking to convey is something inbetween a literal person(being) and a "role" of one person. But there is nothing inbetween these 2 possibilities that is rational. No state of existance inbetween these 2 has any meaning. Just as to imagine that, instead of there being one person and 2 persons, there existed, in a particular place, 1 and 1/2 persons. 1/2 of a person is an absurdity. Similarly, preposing something or someone which is more of an individual person than a representation or role of a person, but is less of a person than an actual, literal, individual person, is irrational. It would have no meaning.

 

[undertow]

Very well then. Let the Trinitarians explain what the term person means. I have been desiring to hear this definition from them a long time.

Hi Brad, I believe I can produce a definition from Gregory of Nyssa. I will have to look through a book to see if I can find it.

 

[undertow]

I will try an explanation of the term "Persons" as it applies to the Godhead.

First, it must be stated that "Person" is just a human term used to describe how God has revealed himself in Scripture; that it isn't explicitly used in Scripture is irrelevant. The biggest problem with the use of "Person" is the way that we so often use it in everyday life: "look at that person"; "what is that person doing?"; "you wouldn't believe what this person did to me"; and so on. In other words, we equate the term "person" with the physical body or presence when in actual fact it includes much more than that.

The Bible clearly speaks of the Father and Son in "personal" terms. This includes the use of personal pronouns and language that is indicative of what we would use to describe a human person, or more specifically, human personality - they act, will, think, etc. And this language is also used when speaking of the Holy Spirit, which is why he is referred to as "he" and not "it".

These are just some quick thoughts which I reserve the right to revise at any time. ;) Anyone is free to add to it.

If we are going to answer this question about whether the Trinity is monotheistic then I think we have to ask: What is essential to monotheism? What would/wouldn't qualify as monotheism in principle?

Then we can take the definition of person that you have suggested: "they act, will, think, etc.", and consider whether 3 of these "persons" would qualify as monotheism.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

If we are going to answer this question about whether the Trinity is monotheistic then I think we have to ask: What is essential to monotheism? What would/wouldn't qualify as monotheism in principle?

Good, Undertow :smt041 You see the heart of the matter

Then we can take the definition of person that you have suggested: "they act, will, think, etc.", and consider whether 3 of these "persons" would qualify as monotheism.

Or, conversely, why belief in (only) one (divine) person does not qualify as monotheism.

 

[lovely]

Dear Thess,

I am going try.

The Father. His distinction, He is eternally the Father, unbegotten, His is the economy of God, or plan, to redeem man by an eternal covenant with the Son. He sent His Son to die for man...this is the Love of God. He also covenants with man, through the Spirit, so that man may be born again, and that man may have a covenant of eternal salvation with the Father, through the Son. His commonality, He is God, and has all the attributes of God, and He is One with the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Son. His distinction is that He is eternally the Son, eternally begotten by the Father, proceeds from the Father, and the two are one (unified intimately), but distinct in role. He is the Word, and He proceeds from the Father, not in time, or in physical nature, but in eternal generation, and divine nature, and likeness. (Along the lines of Melchisedec, who had no lineage, no beginning, and no end) A picture of this is a Father and Son relationship here, but not exact in analogy, yet to be understood of one proceeding out of, like nature (His being divine), and image of (intellect?). This is different than creation out of nothing. Christ's incarnation (coming in the flesh) was when He came in the flesh, (sent by the Father, who was His Father eternally) through the action of God, the Holy Spirit. The earthly mission of the eternal Son began on earth after He was sent by the Father to come in the flesh as the Son of David. He is fully God, and fully Man. Son of God (eternally) and Son of David. (born of the flesh). He came to save us as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and give us eternal life through an eternal covenant with the Father, where Christ agreed to become lower than the angels, and The Father agreed to raise Him, by the Holy Spirit, from the dead.) This led to a covenant of Grace between the Father (through the Holy Spirit) and believers, and that covenant led to the covenant of eternal Salvation through the Son. The incarnation happened in time, in the flesh, and did not begin the Sonship of Christ, but rather the mission of the eternal Son as sent by the Father. The Son is now interceeding on behalf of the children of God. Commonality, He is God, and has all the attributes of God, and is One with the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

(Believers, those who stem (proceed) from the Vine will also be one with Him...joint heirs.)

The Holy Spirit. He is distinct in that He proceeds eternally from both the Father and the Son, and is not begotten (not the Son). He is One with them both. He is active, and has given us the Gifts, and the fruits. He carries out the will of God. Commonality, He is God, and has all the attributes of God, and is One with the Father and the Son.

Obviously this is just the tip of the tip of it, and extremely simple in my terms. There is more that could be discussed, and a great deal more that remains unexplainable. The Lord bless you.

 

[thessalonian]

Good post lovely.