Peter NOT the 1st pope: Analysis Matthew 16 - Peter and the keys of the kingdom

[GodsGrace]

How long has marriage been done away with by the papacy and clergy required to be celibate? If Peter was the first pope, it’s very strange that although he was married, marriage should be forbidden at some point after him. It seems to me that the papacy thinks it’s above the Bible, hence the need to get rid of the idea of sola scriptura. Do you agree?

Hi Free
It was in about 1200AD that the CC refused marriage for priests.
This is a church law and not a biblical teaching,,,,it's not based on what the bible taught but the CCs own reasons.

A priest told me why just recently but I can't remember right now. Will find out soon.

I do agree that the church should not be making up its own rules.

Purgatory is another one.

 

[donadams]

Believe what you like to your own peril, but I'll stick with scripture and only scripture. Goodbye

But you won’t believe scripture or Christ!

Christ founded the one true church (Jn 1:16) by the spirit (Jn 16:13) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

 

[donadams]

The scripture says many of the same things of the apostolic church as it does Christ!

Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 acts 3:22 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23

Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ and His church are one acts 9:4 eph 5:32 and the only means of salvation! Matt 28:19


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

 

[donadams]

Hi Free
It was in about 1200AD that the CC refused marriage for priests.
This is a church law and not a biblical teaching,,,,it's not based on what the bible taught but the CCs own reasons.

A priest told me why just recently but I can't remember right now. Will find out soon.

I do agree that the church should not be making up its own rules.

Purgatory is another one.

Like “Jesus Christ is our redeemer”! Which ain’t in scripture!

Why give absolute authority to the apostolic church then not expect them to make binding authoritative decrees?
Matt 16:18-19 & 18;18

 

[donadams]

How long has marriage been done away with by the papacy and clergy required to be celibate? If Peter was the first pope, it’s very strange that although he was married, marriage should be forbidden at some point after him. It seems to me that the papacy thinks it’s above the Bible, hence the need to get rid of the idea of sola scriptura. Do you agree?

That’s a discipline not a doctrine!

And monks and missionaries were never allowed to marry!

But there are rites in the church that allow married priests

 

[GodsGrace]

Believe what you like to your own peril, but I'll stick with scripture and only scripture. Goodbye

Hi DJT_47

I'd like to explain something to you and others that might be reading along.

The bible is the only authority.
When the CC states that it also believes in Tradition, it means this:

There are some parts of the bible that are very difficult to understand, or that even seem to be contradictory.

The CC also relies on the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Church Fathers when some kind of clarification is needed.
It also relies on the creeds of the early believers and what they state since they were written by "doctors" of the church, or theologians of that time.

What the CC has taught in the beginning was basesd solely on these two sources....the early fathers agreed with the bible of course and so there was no distinction.

Unfortunately, the church started to move away from biblical teachings- difficult for me to say when, I'd say maybe in the 600's or so.

I just would like to make it clear that the CC does rely on the bible, but some teachings are of the church and not of the bible and this is so noted by the CC.

For instance, as Free brought up about priests not being able to marry if they want to be a priest.
This is a church teaching and is not a dogma or official doctrine.

 

[GodsGrace]

Like “Jesus Christ is our redeemer”! Which ain’t in scripture!

Why give absolute authority to the apostolic church then not expect them to make binding authoritative decrees?
Matt 16:18-19 & 18;18

I'm trying to explain the difference between a church teaching and a doctrine/dogma.

You've correctly called it a discipline.

A discipline can be changed at any time.
A dogma cannot.

 

[GodsGrace]

That’s a discipline not a doctrine!

And monks and missionaries were never allowed to marry!

But there are rites in the church that allow married priests

Correct.
Let me just say that when the Desert Fathers did not get married, it was their own choice.

Priests cannot get married.
As you've stated, in some rites priests can get married.

Roman is a RITE, for instance.

In some of the Eastern Catholic Churches priests can get married.
Also, Anglicans that are married and convert to Catholicism are also allowed to be priests in any Catholic Rite, even the Roman Rite. With Papal approval, which, as far as I know, will be given except for an abnormal situation.

 

[donadams]

Hi DJT_47

I'd like to explain something to you and others that might be reading along.

The bible is the only authority.
When the CC states that it also believes in Tradition, it means this:

There are some parts of the bible that are very difficult to understand, or that even seem to be contradictory.

The CC also relies on the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Church Fathers when some kind of clarification is needed.
It also relies on the creeds of the early believers and what they state since they were written by "doctors" of the church, or theologians of that time.

What the CC has taught in the beginning was basesd solely on these two sources....the early fathers agreed with the bible of course and so there was no distinction.

Unfortunately, the church started to move away from biblical teachings- difficult for me to say when, I'd say maybe in the 600's or so.

I just would like to make it clear that the CC does rely on the bible, but some teachings are of the church and not of the bible and this is so noted by the CC.

For instance, as Free brought up about priests not being able to marry if they want to be a priest.
This is a church teaching and is not a dogma or official doctrine.

Not a teaching either only a discipline and discipline is administrative only

 

[donadams]

I'm trying to explain the difference between a church teaching and a doctrine/dogma.

You've correctly called it a discipline.

A discipline can be changed at any time.
A dogma cannot.

True!

 

[GodsGrace]

Not a teaching either only a discipline and discipline is administrative only

You're right.

 

[DJT_47]

Hi DJT_47

I'd like to explain something to you and others that might be reading along.

The bible is the only authority.
When the CC states that it also believes in Tradition, it means this:

There are some parts of the bible that are very difficult to understand, or that even seem to be contradictory.

The CC also relies on the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Church Fathers when some kind of clarification is needed.
It also relies on the creeds of the early believers and what they state since they were written by "doctors" of the church, or theologians of that time.

What the CC has taught in the beginning was basesd solely on these two sources....the early fathers agreed with the bible of course and so there was no distinction.

Unfortunately, the church started to move away from biblical teachings- difficult for me to say when, I'd say maybe in the 600's or so.

I just would like to make it clear that the CC does rely on the bible, but some teachings are of the church and not of the bible and this is so noted by the CC.

For instance, as Free brought up about priests not being able to marry if they want to be a priest.
This is a church teaching and is not a dogma or official doctrine.

It's clear by reading the scriptures that the church was already going off the rails ad noted therein, so how could or should anyone rely on the church over and above the scriptures and not adhere to scripture alone? Be careful, be wise.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's clear by reading the scriptures that the church was already going off the rails ad noted therein, so how could or should anyone rely on the church over and above the scriptures and not adhere to scripture alone? Be careful, be wise.

When did the CC begin to go off the rails?
Do you agree with my timing?

It's difficult to adhere to scripture alone.
Here's why...

We have many threads on OSAS.
Some believe we can forfeit our salvation,
Some believe we cannot and will be saved forever.
I've been told that even if we commit blasphemous sin, salvation is still assured.

So...who's right if both can refer to verses in the NT?

 

[donadams]

When did the CC begin to go off the rails?
Do you agree with my timing?

It's difficult to adhere to scripture alone.
Here's why...

We have many threads on OSAS.
Some believe we can forfeit our salvation,
Some believe we cannot and will be saved forever.
I've been told that even if we commit blasphemous sin, salvation is still assured.

So...who's right if both can refer to verses in the NT?

And some believe we are not even saved at all! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13 and many more

 

[donadams]

Why does it need be explicitly spelled out in scripture? You are rejecting christ authority!

 

[DJT_47]

When did the CC begin to go off the rails?
Do you agree with my timing?

It's difficult to adhere to scripture alone.
Here's why...

We have many threads on OSAS.
Some believe we can forfeit our salvation,
Some believe we cannot and will be saved forever.
I've been told that even if we commit blasphemous sin, salvation is still assured.

So...who's right if both can refer to verses in the NT?

As I've previously stated, there are warnings in the bible about adding to or taking away from God's Word. Deviating from scripture by supplementing, changing, deleting, creating, altering, etc, is doing exactly that which is warned against. One example would be how the Catholics have changed how one is saved by promoting infant baptism, pouring or sprinkling water as opposed to immersion, by creating the unscriptural process of after-the-fact confirmation as opposed to belief first of an accountable person followed immediately by immersion. Many more examples could be provided which is outside scripture.

And just read the various letters of the new testament. Weren't the Corinthians obviously in trouble and messed up? And look at the Hebrews letter warning them to not backslide and deny Christ, or the warnings listed or inferred elsewhere clearly indicating troubles already surfacing such as noted by Paul in the Galatians letter.

 

[donadams]

Christ and His church are one inseparable unity! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 acts 1:8 eph 5:24 eph 5:32

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20

The apostolic church is of divine origin and cannot be corrupted or reformed by the tradition of men! Truth is immutable!

The church the only ark of salvation, the household of faith and is not spiritual to the exclusion of the physical or invisible to the exclusion of the visible but, visible, invisible, spiritual, physical, and supernatural of divine origin and therefore divine preservation! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 Jn 10:16

Visible and invisible
Spiritual and physical
And supernatural the means of grace and the ark of salvation!


A city set on a hill: Matt 5:14
Light of the world: Matt 5:14
Pillar of truth: 1 Tim 3:15
Teach and sanctify all men: Matt 28:19

Unity of faith!

Four Marks of the True Church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

One, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic (succeeding from Christ, Peter and the apostles)

 

[donadams]

The Church apostolic church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

The apostolic church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!

The apostolic church wrote the scripture!

The apostolic church was taught by Christ in person for three years!

The apostolic church was founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles!
Matt 16:28-19 & 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

Christ founded the apostolic church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

 

[DJT_47]

Christ and His church are one inseparable unity! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 acts 1:8 eph 5:24 eph 5:32

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20

The apostolic church is of divine origin and cannot be corrupted or reformed by the tradition of men! Truth is immutable!

The church the only ark of salvation, the household of faith and is not spiritual to the exclusion of the physical or invisible to the exclusion of the visible but, visible, invisible, spiritual, physical, and supernatural of divine origin and therefore divine preservation! Matt 16:18-19 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 Jn 10:16

Visible and invisible
Spiritual and physical
And supernatural the means of grace and the ark of salvation!


A city set on a hill: Matt 5:14
Light of the world: Matt 5:14
Pillar of truth: 1 Tim 3:15
Teach and sanctify all men: Matt 28:19

Unity of faith!

Four Marks of the True Church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

One, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic (succeeding from Christ, Peter and the apostles)

Yep, just keep believing man, following his word and not the word of God and you'll do just fine,,,, somewhere.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yep, just keep believing man, following his word and not the word of God and you'll do just fine,,,, somewhere.

Implying a member is not saved is against TOS rules.
Please be careful how you reply.

But what makes you declare another member is not saved?

What are the requirements for salvation?
Generally speaking, of course.