Poll: Respecting her tattoo wish

[Davies]

Hi farouk,

I think tattoos are the most ineffective, expensive, regrettable means of evangelizing. I think it's sad that people would abuse their liberty in Jesus by using evangelism as justification for getting a tattoo. You say it is a fact that many people get a tattoo for the sole purpose of evangelizing, yet why do many people regret getting a tattoo? Can you answer that question? Why is there a business for so many people who would have their tattoos removed? I would venture to say that it's because when a person received their tattoo, they weren't actually getting it to evangelize. They were getting it because they want to be cool like other people, a right of passage, often times a symbol of rebellion. Do we really want to be like the world? I don't think so. I imagine one of the reasons why a person regrets getting a tattoo is because after they have grown up and matured, especially with their faith in Jesus, they come to understand what is better and what is not good. Who here can say they weren't foolish when they were young? Who here can say that aren't foolish anymore?

- Davies

 

[farouk]

Hi farouk,

I think tattoos are the most ineffective, expensive, regrettable means of evangelizing. I think it's sad that people would abuse their liberty in Jesus by using evangelism as justification for getting a tattoo. You say it is a fact that many people get a tattoo for the sole purpose of evangelizing, yet why do many people regret getting a tattoo? Can you answer that question? Why is there a business for so many people who would have their tattoos removed? I would venture to say that it's because when a person received their tattoo, they weren't actually getting it to evangelize. They were getting it because they want to be cool like other people, a right of passage, often times a symbol of rebellion. Do we really want to be like the world? I don't think so. I imagine one of the reasons why a person regrets getting a tattoo is because after they have grown up and matured, especially with their faith in Jesus, they come to understand what is better and what is not good. Who here can say they weren't foolish when they were young? Who here can say that aren't foolish anymore?

- Davies

Davies:

There is certainly truth to what you say.

There is a difference also between some unwise tattoos (even many of them), on the one hand, and, on the other hand, all tattoos everywhere.

Some people's motives for a tattoo might be questionable.

But just because some people's motives might be questionable, doesn't mean that everyone's everywhere fall into the same category.

In any case, it's not something that should be entered into without a lot of thought and planning.

But the fact is that some people do have good motives for getting faith tattoos: I'm talking here about something as simple as a Bible ref. or phrase on a wrist, for example. An earnest young man that is heading out to spend months in a barrack room in the military, or a shy, preacher's daughter that is heading for college, might well decide to have something of this nature.

Blessings.

 

[Davies]

In any case, it's not something that should be entered into without a lot of thought and planning.

Good morning farouk,

For something that should be planned with a lot of thought, I'm curious to know just what standards a person must have in order to have a good motive to get at tattoo. Who defines good? As Romans 14 talks about food and being convinced in one's own mind, I think this is a precarious thinking to depend on those Scriptures to justify getting a tattoo. I do grant that a person does have liberty in Christ, but do you really think very many people at a young age have the depth of faith in Jesus to be properly motivated to get a tattoo? As precious as faith is and the years it normally requires to mature, I would suggest to you that most twenty somethings don't have the maturity to be properly motivated to get a tattoo.

But the fact is that some people do have good motives for getting faith tattoos: I'm talking here about something as simple as a Bible ref. or phrase on a wrist, for example. An earnest young man that is heading out to spend months in a barrack room in the military, or a shy, preacher's daughter that is heading for college, might well decide to have something of this nature.

For the person who is going in the military or the young woman going away to college, these motives are most suspect. It's more likely the motivation for a person to get a tattoo doing these things is to bring themselves comfort, a reminder. This is fine, but it's not God centered either. If anything, it would be a reminder of their distrust in God. Are we not content with what God has given us, or, must we demand because we have a new found freedom to do what we want to get a tattoo? This freedom is not the freedom we have in Christ. This freedom is the freedom experienced when the restraints of Father and Mother are removed. When a person is a young adult, I think this would be the worst time to get a tattoo, especially for those going in the military or college.

- Davies

 

[farouk]

Davies:

Not only as a reminder, but with a testimony motive, too.

I find it hard to read Romans 14 about Christian liberty and then proceed to say to someone else that his or her faith based tattoo with a witness motive is still against Romans 14.

Blessings.

 

[Davies]

farouk,

You'd have a hard time to say that a person's faith based tattoo is in line with Romans 14 because of the simple matter you don't know their motive even if they told you what it was. The heart is desperately wicked. Who can know it?

- Davies

 

[farouk]

farouk,

You'd have a hard time to say that a person's faith based tattoo is in line with Romans 14 because of the simple matter you don't know their motive even if they told you what it was. The heart is desperately wicked. Who can know it?

- Davies

Davies: It's not what I said. In the light of your observation about other people's motives, it's hard to say that someone else's motivation is not in like with Romans 14. (There are also Scriptures against busybodying.)

Blessings.

 

[Davies]

Davies: It's not what I said. In the light of your observation about other people's motives, it's hard to say that someone else's motivation is not in like with Romans 14. (There are also Scriptures against busybodying.)

Blessings.

farouk,

I understood you plainly. I'm saying you can't know that a person's motivation is in Romans 14 and those Scriptures are not justification for getting a tattoo.

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Hi farouk,

Since I stated that Romans 14 doesn't give justification a person to get tattoo, I thought would elaborate. If I'm going to ask for elaboration, then the least I can do is elaborate myself.


Romans 14

New King James Version (NKJV)

The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. <SUP class=versenum>2 </SUP>For one believes he may (get a tattoo) eat all things, but he who is weak (doesn't get a tattoo) eats only vegetables. <SUP class=versenum>3 </SUP>Let not him who (gets a tattoo) eats despise him who (does not get a tattoo) does not eat, and let not him who (does not get a tattoo) does not eat judge him who (gets a tattoo) eats; for God has received him. <SUP class=versenum>4 </SUP>Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

You said it would be hard for you to say a person who gets a tattoo is not against Romans 14. You could say a person has the liberty to get a tattoo, but it's true also that one can see that there is no liberty in getting a tattoo because his faith is weak. I'll repeat what I've said previously, and I suppose I'm writing this to check my own conscience, that getting tattoos is a poor idea, especially regarding evangelizing. You would disagree simply because it is a fact that people do it. Correct me if I'm misrepresenting you. I don't know why else you would keep telling us that it is a fact that people get tattoos to evangelize other than it must be a good thing to do. You would use your liberty to promote the getting of tattoos to people who would be very young in their faith, whose maturity does not promote a discernment we're all striving for. This is evident in the number of people who regret their tattoos. Realize there are many people whose faith must be weak because they disagree with the use of tattoos. I'm not condemning the getting of tattoos. I'm saying it's not wise: for those whose faith is immature, and to those who would use their liberty despite what their brothers or sisters say.

So, I don't judge those who have tattoos, though I suspect that the majority of people didn't get them for evangelizing purposes, and I don't think you judge me for disagreeing with you. I'm happy that we have faith in Jesus, and we don't need tattoos for each other either.

- Davies

 

[farouk]

Davies: there is also verse 5 of Romans 14: 'Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind'.

(And 'man' and 'his' applies also to 'woman' and 'her' in the case of tattoos.)

Blessings.

 

[Davies]

Davies: there is also verse 5 of Romans 14: 'Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind'.

(And 'man' and 'his' applies also to 'woman' and 'her' in the case of tattoos.)

Blessings.

Hi farouk,

A man must be persuaded in his mind by what? One man's conscience can forgo the liberty he believes he has in getting a tattoo. Another man's conscience cannot go against his conscience because he does not believe there is liberty there. The former should not exercise his freedom at the expense of the latter. Why? Because there is no love there. So, verse 5 is not justification for getting a tattoo. Faith expressing itself in love trumps.

Galatians 5:6

New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.


- Davies

 

[farouk]

Hi farouk,

A man must be persuaded in his mind by what? One man's conscience can forgo the liberty he believes he has in getting a tattoo. Another man's conscience cannot go against his conscience because he does not believe there is liberty there. The former should not exercise his freedom at the expense of the latter. Why? Because there is no love there. So, verse 5 is not justification for getting a tattoo. Faith expressing itself in love trumps.

Galatians 5:6

New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.


- Davies

Davies:

Part of the application of verse 3 would also be that he or she who does not get a tattoo should not judge him or her with one.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

(From a while back: )

Farouk, I absolutely agree that it is all about the intent of the heart. ... you hear things like "A Christian shouldn't get tattooed because they are associated with punks" or "Tattoo parlors just look evil!" as if those with tattoos are less than human. I wish people could hear what is coming out of their own hearts when they make comments like that.

It's an issue that is left between each Christian and God, but there will never be a shortage of Christians found condemning other Christians concerning any issue. Any Christian who is strong enough to get a tattoo, is also strong enough to bless and pray for those who condemn them, though.

Hi theLords:

Yes, it might well be the man or woman with strong faith that gets a faith based tattoo.

While some might regard getting a faith based tattoo as something that is done in a moment of weakness, supposedly, it might also be a matter of strength in a man or woman of faith.

Blessings.

 

[Davies]

Davies:

Part of the application of verse 3 would also be that he or she who does not get a tattoo should not judge him or her with one.

Blessings.

Try telling that to someone whose faith is weak. They will likely be stumbled anyway, or be lead to go against their conscience and sin, even though we consider getting a tattoo is not sinful.

- Davies

 

[farouk]

Try telling that to someone whose faith is weak. They will likely be stumbled anyway, or be lead to go against their conscience and sin, even though we consider getting a tattoo is not sinful.

- Davies

How do you mean, Davies?

I was simply trying to applying verse 5 in a way that you were trying to do with other verses.

Blessings.

(Or maybe you weren't referring to my comment on verse 5, now.)

 

[Davies]

How do you mean, Davies?

I was simply trying to applying verse 5 in a way that you were trying to do with other verses.

Blessings.

(Or maybe you weren't referring to my comment on verse 5, now.)

Romans 14:5

New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">5 </sup>One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.



If a person doesn't believe he, in his own mind, does not have the liberty to get a tattoo, then he could be lead to sin because his brother, who is stronger in the faith, believes its ok. Even though we know it's not sinful to get a tattoo, someone might think it is. If the weaker brother is lead to think it is ok not fully convinced in his own mind and gets a tattoo, then he would be sinning.


- Davies

 

[farouk]

Romans 14:5

New King James Version (NKJV)

<sup class="versenum">5 </sup>One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.



If a person doesn't believe he, in his own mind, does not have the liberty to get a tattoo, then he could be lead to sin because his brother, who is stronger in the faith, believes its ok. Even though we know it's not sinful to get a tattoo, someone might think it is. If the weaker brother is lead to think it is ok not fully convinced in his own mind and gets a tattoo, then he would be sinning.


- Davies

Davies:

Okay, ty.

I guess it could also be applied that each needs to realize that s/he will be fully persuaded in one way or another and that someone else who also loves the Lord and feeds on His Word might also see an issue differently.

Blessings.

 

[Davies]

Hi farouk,

Then we would both agree that it isn't good to use one's liberty at the expense of another?

- Davies

 

[farouk]

Hi farouk,

Then we would both agree that it isn't good to use one's liberty at the expense of another?

- Davies

Davies:

Yes, and the New Testament warns repeatedly about busybodying, also (not preached about much). So no one should take up an arbitrary issue and demand that no one else engage in it 'in case someone is offended'.

I come back also to the fact that many Christians do have faith related tattoos, which regularly open doors of testimony.

Blessings.

 

[Davies]

Applying Roman 14:5, farouk. We don't read the Scriptures just to see what we want to either. So, your right when you say that we should bring up something even if it offends, but we don't offend for that sake. We point to Jesus, and if that offends, it is only because we are being faithful. I can be faithful as you could, by getting a tattoo. But a person who is not fully persuaded can't. Why do you have a hard time with that? Well, you quickly said "Yes." I'm glad we agree that we shouldn't use our liberty at the expense of others.

I'd be interested to see your tattoos, farouk. Would you share with us what they look like? When did you get them? Did you get them when you were saved or unsaved? How many do you have?

- Davies

 

[Davies]

Good morning,

Because the reason why people get tattoos is so important, and why we need to respect a person's choice to get a tattoo, I thought I would post a link to a series of celebrities who have tattoos. Remember, young people look to these people as idols, and think that whatever they do, it must be cool, the trend. You could call media stars trend setters, because they basically do what they want to with the consideration that everyone is looking at them. Why else would someone get a tattoo other than to say, 'Look at me?" I must confess, I enjoyed looking at the tattoos. Some of the Biblical references were especially appealing to me and a point of concern, because their tattoos have become an occasion to blaspheme God. I wonder if Hulk Hogan's tattoo "I Am that I Am" can be viewed in the sex tape that was published (It was released to assassinate his character, which pretty much worked).

http://oddstuffmagazine.com/the-popular-stars-and-their-attractive-meaningful-tattoos.html

The link took a few moments to load, so you might need to be patient. Also, if you have a problem looking at attractive women, you might forgo the exercise, as you know how media stars like to dress.

May I suggest to people who are young, teenagers to people in their early thirties, don't get a tattoo. The world loves tattoos. Otherwise, media stars wouldn't get them. Media stars are famous for stretching the boundaries to what is commonly accepted as respectable, a quite different attitude than Romans 14:5 supports. Rather, I would suggest Romans 12:1-2, then let the peace of God rule your heart.

Romans 12:1-2

New King James Version (NKJV)

Living Sacrifices to God

12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. <sup class="versenum">2 </sup>And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.


- Davies