Polygyny and the Bible

[jasoncran]

discovered they were gay. well do tell . i had those thoughts long before i had sex with a woman. the first thought was at age 10. and i wasnt raised by my parents to effimate. the cult of the jws preach biblical marriage views. despite being a cult they are pretty close to what christianity says

 

[theLords]

That reminded my of why God might call a strong man to take a second wife. So many men these days have "discovered" they are gay and left their wives. There is a shortage of strait men.

I agree with some things of feminism, but sometimes its goals is to make men femenine. Many women yearn deeply for a strong man to guide them and protect them.

Men are commanded to be the head of the household. The head of the houshold leads the houshold that is self evident. Just as the President is the Head of state a husband is head of his house. That is true leadership.

Okay, eddy, you stating the innermost thoughts of your heart is fine and all, but you have not answered the questions:

What is a 'real man'?

What in your eyes is 'weak'?

What in your eyes is 'feminine'?

What does it mean to be a 'sissy'?

So many men these days have "discovered" they are gay and left their wives.

Are you aware of the fact that many "red meat eating, women abusing, puppy kicking, beer chugging, football lovin' cowboys" (what I can only assume is your perception of manly men since you haven't told me yourself) are and do call themselves gay?

There is a shortage of strait men.

As of April 2011, approximately 3.5% of American adults identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual, while 0.3% are transgender—approximately 11.7 million Americans. Source: LGBT demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

96.5% of the population is straight. Your statement isn't factual.

I agree with some things of feminism, but sometimes its goals is to make men femenine.

What does it mean to be feminine?

Many women yearn deeply for a strong man to guide them and protect them.

Sure, but does that in any way take away from the desire of women to yearn for men with tender hearts as modeled by our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ?

Men are commanded to be the head of the household. The head of the houshold leads the houshold that is self evident. Just as the President is the Head of state a husband is head of his house. That is true leadership.

Ok, but what does this have to do with anything?

 

[felix]

Is He "allowing" it for you?


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

How does the law in Deut 21:15-17 sound to you? Is He forbidding polygamy? No. He is allowing it.

God is not just "allowing" for me, but for every Christian too.

 

[felix]

Allowed, sure, for a short time. Blesses and Approves? That's a whole 'nother story ;) (Your point was still a logical fallacy though :yes)

Where in the scripture does it say it is allowed for a short time and not allowed now?

 

[theLords]

It is true that the parable is not a promotion nor instructing a christian to have many wives. However, the parable itself shows the acceptance of polygamy from God.

The meaning of the parable:
The bridegroom is Christ (John 2:9) and the virgins are the Christians (2Cor 11:2). Lamp is the commandments of God (Prov 6:23). The light from the lamp are the good deeds of Christians (Matt 5:15-16). Oil makes the lamp glow (His commandments to follow) and give light (to do good deeds for His glory). Oil that makes His commandments to follow and do good deeds for His glory, is the anointing of the Holy Spirit or His Word in our hearts. So, every Christian must always have His anointing or His Word abiding in us always and must be like the seed fallen on good ground so that he is always ready to visit the Lord.

It's a bit off topic, but the point I am making is clear...

God wouldn't take an unacceptable and sinful practice to explain an acceptable spiritual mystery about His Kingdom.

Felix, this has been addressed by Handy in post #202:

Wow, this thread is so full of rabbit trails. I've been working on a response to Adelphos's interpretation of 1 Corinthians 7:2, but I took some time just to pour over any amount of commentaries and annotations...

...the virgins were not all brides of the groom. They were bridesmaids and the story is told according to the customs of the time when the bridesmaids would watch for the groom to come. There is no reason to believe that all these virgins were brides to the groom. According to the Blue Letter Bible, "Talmudic authorities affirm that there were usually ten lamps in a bridal procession."

Now, we can play a game of "dueling commentaries" if you like, but why bother...the text itself says nothing of these virgins being the bride. If they were the brides, then Jesus probably just would have said "brides". Sorry, but trying to make the parable be a defense for God's instituting polygyny just doesn't hold up.

 

[jasoncran]

How does the law in Deut 21:15-17 sound to you? Is He forbidding polygamy? No. He is allowing it.

God is not just "allowing" for me, but for every Christian too.

are you greater then a king? God forbade a king to have more then one wife.

see deut 17:17 david was a king and violate that command

 

[eddy]

discovered they were gay. well do tell . i had those thoughts long before i had sex with a woman. the first thought was at age 10. and i wasnt raised by my parents to effimate. the cult of the jws preach biblical marriage views. despite being a cult they are pretty close to what christianity says

So you knew you were Gay, but now your not? I get it. Sometimes you doth protest too much Jason.

I am not judging you. Just be who you are. If you were born that way you were born that way. You mention it so much who are you trying to convince yourself or everyone else?

People should just accept who they are. That is strenght. I am who I am. I am happy with it. So is my wife. Sometimes she thinks I am a little rough around the edges, and hard headed, but she respects me.

 

[jasoncran]

So you knew you were Gay, but now your not? I get it. Sometimes you doth protest too much Jason.

I am not judging you. Just be who you are. If you were born that way you were born that way. You mention it so much who are you trying to convince yourself or everyone else?

People should just accept who they are. That is strenght. I am who I am. I am happy with it. So is my wife. Sometimes she thinks I am a little rough around the edges, and hard headed, but she respects me.

i prefer heavan not hell. no went i comes to the definition of man and woman and you say man is to effimate then say theres a shorter of straight men and then say such ignorant things

i hardly think of it off the board. only here and here alone do i bother with it.at work the sinners spoke of being gay and not understand why it was. i said nary a word. pointless. they dont claim christ and why cast pearls before the swine?


i am set free. its my testimony in part. so i should be ashamed of what God did and hide it?

 

[theLords]

Where in the scripture does it say it is allowed for a short time and not allowed now?

The Lord clearly and succinctly reveals what God's original plan for marriage was like when addressing the issue of divorce:

New International Version (©1984)
Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Jesus replied, "Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts, but it was not what God had originally intended.

English Standard Version (©2001)
He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

International Standard Version (©2008)
He said to them, "It was because of your hardness of heart that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives. But from the beginning it was not this way.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus answered them, "Moses allowed you to divorce your wives because you're heartless. It was never this way in the beginning.

King James Bible
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

American King James Version
He said to them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

American Standard Version
He saith unto them, Moses for your hardness of heart suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it hath not been so.

Bible in Basic English
He says to them, Moses, because of your hard hearts, let you put away your wives: but it has not been so from the first.

Douay-Rheims Bible
He saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Darby Bible Translation
He says to them, Moses, in view of your hardheartedness, allowed you to put away your wives; but from the beginning it was not thus.

English Revised Version
He saith unto them, Moses for your hardness of heart suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it hath not been so.

Webster's Bible Translation
He saith to them, Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Weymouth New Testament
"Moses," He replied, "in consideration of the hardness of your nature permitted you to put away your wives, but it has not been so from the beginning.

World English Bible
He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it has not been so.

Young's Literal Translation
He saith to them -- 'Moses for your stiffness of heart did suffer you to put away your wives, but from the beginning it hath not been so.

Here is a commentary:

He saith unto them ... - Jesus admits that this was allowed, but still he contends that this was not the original design of marriage. It was only a temporary expedient growing out of a special state of things, and not designed to be perpetual. It was on account of the hardness of their hearts. Moses found the custom in use. He found a hard-hearted and rebellious people. In this state of things he did not deem it prudent to forbid a practice so universal; but it might be regulated; and, instead of suffering the husband to divorce his wife in a passion, he required him, in order that he might take time to consider the matter, and thus make it probable that divorces would be less frequent, to give her a writing; to sit down deliberately to look at the matter, and probably, also, to bring the case before some scribe or learned man, to write a divorce in the legal form. Thus doing, there might be an opportunity for the matter to be reconciled, and the man to be persuaded not to divorce his wife. This, says our Saviour, was a permission growing out of a particular state of things, and designed to remedy a prevailing evil; but at first it was not so. God intended that marriage should be between one man and one woman, and that they were only to be separated, in the case specified, by him who had formed the union.

Hardness of your hearts - He speaks here of his hearers as a part of the nation. The hardness of you Jews; as when we say, we fought with England and gained our independence; that is, we, the American people, though it was done by our fathers. He does not mean to say, therefore, that this was done on account of the people whom he addressed, but of the national hardness of heart - the stubbornness of the Jewish people as a people.

This same statement can very easily be used in understanding polygamy:

...Jesus admits that [polygamy] was allowed, but still he contends that this was not the original design of marriage. It was only a temporary expedient growing out of a special state of things, and not designed to be perpetual. It was on account of the hardness of their hearts. Moses found the custom in use. He found a hard-hearted and rebellious people. In this state of things he did not deem it prudent to forbid a practice so universal; but it might be regulated;...

Source:

http://bible.cc/matthew/19-8.htm

 

[jasoncran]

and to correct you, i never said that i didnt like women . a true gay is one who cant stand women. i liked woman and men at the same time. its what is called bisexual. learn the difference.

i have only acted on the male side once and only once, and was convicted and stopped from that. its called repentance. you hear the word of God and you say God forgive me and repent and God takes the very nature to sin of that type of sin away. i was also a thief and con man and i repented of them. i did those longer. it took time but i do them no more. that is what a christian is called to do stop sinning. and when you cant do it alone ask God for the strength to stop see 1 john 1:9

 

[Mike]

That reminded my of why God might call a strong man to take a second wife. So many men these days have "discovered" they are gay and left their wives. There is a shortage of strait men.

I agree with some things of feminism, but sometimes its goals is to make men femenine. Many women yearn deeply for a strong man to guide them and protect them.

Men are commanded to be the head of the household. The head of the houshold leads the houshold that is self evident. Just as the President is the Head of state a husband is head of his house. That is true leadership.

Eddy, you've lost it, man. This thread has revealed a lot about you, and I never would have guessed it. You behaved quite well for a while. But, just like the members of Westboro Baptist Church, I expect you will dig your heals in defiantly and claim you are standing up for the Lord.

With regard to this post, there have been a number of members who have gone down the road you are. And it never ends very well. :gah

 

[eddy]

i prefer heavan not hell. no went i comes to the definition of man and woman and you say man is to effimate then say theres a shorter of straight men and then say such ignorant things

i hardly think of it off the board. only here and here alone do i bother with it.at work the sinners spoke of being gay and not understand why it was. i said nary a word. pointless. they dont claim christ and why cast pearls before the swine?


i am set free. its my testimony in part. so i should be ashamed of what God did and hide it?

Homosexuals can go to heaven. Just like adulterers divorce and get remarried and live in open rebellion, or like me a drug addicted smoker.

You bring it up a LOT Jason. Its like if you say it enough you will start to believe it. Just be yourself. Living a lie is the worst sort of sin. As Lady Ga Ga sings. You were born this way.

 

[jasoncran]

Homosexuals can go to heaven. Just like adulterers divorce and get remarried and live in open rebellion, or like me a drug addicted smoker.

You bring it up a LOT Jason. Its like if you say it enough you will start to believe it. Just be yourself. Living a lie is the worst sort of sin. As Lady Ga Ga sings. You were born this way.

right. right, sure outside are they that abuse themselves with man kind.

God is clear that no unrepentant gay man or lesbian will make it to heaven., in fact romans one twenty six and that chapters says that do that are worthy of death. and its include a list of sins.


dude , you insult me. God makes gays and then tells them that they cant do it and if they do they die?

see leviticus on that, the penalty for that was death.

 

[eddy]

Eddy, you've lost it, man. This thread has revealed a lot about you, and I never would have guessed it. You behaved quite well for a while. But, just like the members of Westboro Baptist Church, I expect you will dig your heals in defiantly and claim you are standing up for the Lord.

With regard to this post, there have been a number of members who have gone down the road you are. And it never ends very well. :gah

Like Westboro Baptist? What road am I going down. Disagreeing? I like others correctly point out that the bible no where calls polygamy a sin, and instead gives directives to do it according to Gods will. I am sorry that doesn't sit well in the modern culture.

 

[Mike]

Some are heading down some very bizarre paths, and gone beyond defending polygamy. We will discuss as staff and decide as a team how to proceed.

 

[theLords]

Homosexuals can go to heaven. Just like adulterers divorce and get remarried and live in open rebellion, or like me a drug addicted smoker.

You bring it up a LOT Jason. Its like if you say it enough you will start to believe it. Just be yourself. Living a lie is the worst sort of sin. As Lady Ga Ga sings. You were born this way.

I don't understand how you can so avidly promote polygamy as God sanctioned using the Bible to try to prove your claim, and, in the same breath promote the lie that God causes people to be born gay. You are baffling, eddy.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (ESV)
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[c] 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


If you recognize that drugs are sinful and refuse to repent (turn away from your sin) then you are in direct rebellion towards God:

Romans 6:1-4 (ESV)
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:12-15 (ESV)
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

Hebrews 10:26-31 (ESV)
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Why are you advising that other Christians remain in their sin, thereby promoting sinful behavior and unScriptural liberalism?