Position on Freedom

[Jab-Jab]

I wanted to get some clarification on some of the memebers ideas of what exactly they think what freedoms we deserve or should be restricted.

I am of the opinion that each man and women should have the rights of Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. To explore this I'll be more direct.

I believe each man/women has the right to believe or not believe in any philosophy/religion they choose, but no one has to agree with them and can't be forced to follow anyone's philosophy unless it violates Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I also believe everyone has the right to state their opinion and not be attacked or censored for such an opinion.

I believe that people have the right to express themselves in anyway they see fit and if a person is offended by it, they can ignore it.

I believe the Government should have no say in what a person eats, consumes, or dose with their body (including killing one self) as long as it dosen't violate the main 3 rights stated before.

What do you guys think?

 

[jasoncran]

I wanted to get some clarification on some of the memebers ideas of what exactly they think what freedoms we deserve or should be restricted.

I am of the opinion that each man and women should have the rights of Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. To explore this I'll be more direct.

I believe each man/women has the right to believe or not believe in any philosophy/religion they choose, but no one has to agree with them and can't be forced to follow anyone's philosophy unless it violates Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I also believe everyone has the right to state their opinion and not be attacked or censored for such an opinion.

I believe that people have the right to express themselves in anyway they see fit and if a person is offended by it, they can ignore it.

I believe the Government should have no say in what a person eats, consumes, or dose with their body (including killing one self) as long as it dosen't violate the main 3 rights stated before.

What do you guys think?

i disagree, on suicide thought not a criminal act, uh should the govt then just let soldiers like me kill themselves from the combat stress and not care? and also how many persons are that so isolated that they dont have someone they can affect?

also on drugs what drugs should be legal and or limited? any above pot are so powerful that one cant drive or work on them so then we now have those that cant work thus damaging the income. pot. yeah right. you dont want a pilot on that or doctor or police. or driving. sure like drinking people can function but if pot didnt cause a buzz that makes you go into some type of lala it wouldnt be smoked.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I try to base my beliefs on the Bible whenever possible, and my Bible tells me to be my brother's keeper, which I take to mean that I should intervene (or someone should) if a fellow human being is so distressed that they're at or approaching the point of self-destruction.

I don't believe in anti-drug laws, though; the war on drugs is a huge waste of resources and I think it needs to stop. Legalize it all, smack warning labels on the drugs, and tax it to fund health and education programs.

 

[Jab-Jab]

i disagree, on suicide thought not a criminal act, uh should the govt then just let soldiers like me kill themselves from the combat stress and not care? and also how many persons are that so isolated that they dont have someone they can affect?

Are you not your own person? The military is a special case where you submit and give yourself up as property voluntarily ( unless drafted), so you then become the property of the Military (not the government though, separate entity). Its a person's own life and what they choose to do with it is their rite. They will face the consiquences if there is any. It is up to us as individuals to watch out for each other, and not the government.

also on drugs what drugs should be legal and or limited? any above pot are so powerful that one cant drive or work on them so then we now have those that cant work thus damaging the income.

Its a person's choice if they want to debilitate themselves and make themselves unable to do what they need to do. If someone wants to eat themselves until they can't move, its their choice. If someone wants to inject heroin into themselves and make themselves stupid, also their choice.
Freedom should never be restricted because of the acts of those without restraint.

Also the ability to drive is a privilege, and if someone abuses this privilege they loose their license.

pot. yeah right. you dont want a pilot on that or doctor or police. or driving. sure like drinking people can function but if pot didnt cause a buzz that makes you go into some type of lala it wouldnt be smoked.

You also should know that private entities such as hospitals and Airports have their own standards and can decide to drug test their employees because the employee is surrendering their time for payment. This means the employer can set standards wich can include drugs.

You wouldn't happen to be a democrat would you Jasoncran? Democrats like to ban things based on being harmful, but I tend to be against big government, so I disagree with democrats.

 

[Jab-Jab]

I try to base my beliefs on the Bible whenever possible, and my Bible tells me to be my brother's keeper, which I take to mean that I should intervene (or someone should) if a fellow human being is so distressed that they're at or approaching the point of self-destruction.

I don't believe in anti-drug laws, though; the war on drugs is a huge waste of resources and I think it needs to stop. Legalize it all, smack warning labels on the drugs, and tax it to fund health and education programs.

I am all for people watching out for each other and being each other's keeper. I just don't like the idea of the Government being my keeper over certain issues.

 

[jasoncran]

Are you not your own person? The military is a special case where you submit and give yourself up as property voluntarily ( unless drafted), so you then become the property of the Military (not the government though, separate entity). Its a person's own life and what they choose to do with it is their rite. They will face the consiquences if there is any. It is up to us as individuals to watch out for each other, and not the government.

Its a person's choice if they want to debilitate themselves and make themselves unable to do what they need to do. If someone wants to eat themselves until they can't move, its their choice. If someone wants to inject heroin into themselves and make themselves stupid, also their choice.
Freedom should never be restricted because of the acts of those without restraint.

Also the ability to drive is a privilege, and if someone abuses this privilege they loose their license.
You also should know that private entities such as hospitals and Airports have their own standards and can decide to drug test their employees because the employee is surrendering their time for payment. This means the employer can set standards wich can include drugs.

You wouldn't happen to be a democrat would you Jasoncran? Democrats like to ban things based on being harmful, but I tend to be against big government, so I disagree with democrats.

yes, do you really think those on drugs will pay their bills and take of their kids. so then the family or state then has to take them from them.

i am not a democrat. but i not a pro-drug libertarian or anarchist like you appear.

since i have a cdl. lets say company a sets pot is ok on the road. and company b says no. who will then pay for the wreck if a's driver kills someone while he was high? and who will enforce the laws of the company.

i dont really think any drug addict will just have enough control (thus why its illegal to do drugs) to stop and do it only at home or in a safe place AS THEIR JUDGMENTS ARE IMPAIRED!

the more drugs you do the less the high. you will steal, kill if need be to get that high. so should we then legalise that for the druggie? or provide the drug for them? ie via taxes? or donations.

 

[Elijah674]

I wanted to get some clarification on some of the memebers ideas of what exactly they think what freedoms we deserve or should be restricted.

I am of the opinion that each man and women should have the rights of Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. To explore this I'll be more direct.

I believe each man/women has the right to believe or not believe in any philosophy/religion they choose, but no one has to agree with them and can't be forced to follow anyone's philosophy unless it violates Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I also believe everyone has the right to state their opinion and not be attacked or censored for such an opinion.

I believe that people have the right to express themselves in anyway they see fit and if a person is offended by it, they can ignore it.

I believe the Government should have no say in what a person eats, consumes, or dose with their body (including killing one self) as long as it dosen't violate the main 3 rights stated before.

What do you guys think?

'i' see it pretty much that way except where God in Rom. 13 seperates the two tables of His Eternal Covenant. Christ's rendering to Caesar only the last duty to man 6 Commandments seen there.

Never the First Four's Duty to God alone ones. --Elijah

PS: But our Required Religous Freedom's will be given up with a up or down vote in the USA Constitution soon, as 'i' see it. (from lamb/like to dragon)

 

[Jab-Jab]

yes, do you really think those on drugs will pay their bills and take of their kids. so then the family or state then has to take them from them.

Yeah, its just like everything else. You mess up, you pay the consequences. No need for a nanny State.

i am not a democrat. but i not a pro-drug libertarian or anarchist like you appear.

I'm libertarian, and Anarchism is quite hilarious. Anarchism never works and is just as predictable as communism.

since i have a cdl. lets say company a sets pot is ok on the road. and company b says no. who will then pay for the wreck if a's driver kills someone while he was high? and who will enforce the laws of the company.

I don't play games with people who make up scenarios that no matter how I answer, chances will always manipulate the end result. Nice trap there. Until Pot is legalized and regulated this question is pointless.

i dont really think any drug addict will just have enough control (thus why its illegal to do drugs) to stop and do it only at home or in a safe place AS THEIR JUDGMENTS ARE IMPAIRED!

Considering this entire statement is just an opinion based on an assumption, its also useless.

the more drugs you do the less the high. you will steal, kill if need be to get that high.

I don't see mass amounts of people killing for nicotene, which is the most addictive substance. Weird.

so should we then legalise that for the druggie?

Legalise what exactly?

or provide the drug for them?

Libertarian

ie via taxes?

Libertarian

or donations.

If someone wants to give someone else the money for drugs out of their own pocket, its their business.

 

[Jab-Jab]

PS: But our Required Religous Freedom's will be given up with a up or down vote in the USA Constitution soon, as 'i' see it. (from lamb/like to dragon)

Then if the Fed, or state tells you, you have to believe a certain state philosophy, you can fight for it.

 

[jasoncran]

smoking is defacto legalised in those medicinal pot. theres no medical research that really proves pot to be that effictive. if they wanted it for medicine then let the pharmacies grow and regulate it like any class 3 narcotic that has been legalised. but they didnt.

shoot i have headaches all day.

please the line about consquences is realy cute. so if my sister smokes pot and was a bad parent. how then would i be able legally remove her rights a parent?

you have think of those things if its legalised buddy, you cant just say all drugs are now legal and determine limits. if said pot head or druggie isnt working and needs the high where is he going to get the money? from theft and crime thats how! so then the law will have to deal with him anyway.thus no change in saving govt.

i am not for harsh sentences on the addicts but for valid rehab.preferably the church such as this

but hey that seperation of chruch and state denies this so the addict must have family pay for it or donation which is fine but why not have this a part of the sentence they fail to rehab, its jail time
Dunklin Memorial Camp - Christian Drug and Alcohol Regeneration Program

oh btw i am independent but not a libertarian.i dont have faith in people as you do. lets say war and hurricane duty taught me a good lesson on how much of thieving,lying and greedy society we live in.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Its a person's choice if they want to debilitate themselves and make themselves unable to do what they need to do."

Unless, of course, they're driving a car, or (shudder) a Semi. And folks who are stupid enough to take drugs, are generally ALSO stupid enough to drive when they're impaired.

 

[jasoncran]

"Its a person's choice if they want to debilitate themselves and make themselves unable to do what they need to do."

Unless, of course, they're driving a car, or (shudder) a Semi. And folks who are stupid enough to take drugs, are generally ALSO stupid enough to drive when they're impaired.

thank you. that is my point or also they will work in a factory where there actions can set fires or harm others.

i had a coworker through presribed meds almost got me injured as he didnt tighten up on bolt. a simle bolt(one of two) that held the upper control arm in place if the other broke while i made a turn who knows how that could have worked out.

 

[Jab-Jab]

"Its a person's choice if they want to debilitate themselves and make themselves unable to do what they need to do."

Unless, of course, they're driving a car, or (shudder) a Semi. And folks who are stupid enough to take drugs, are generally ALSO stupid enough to drive when they're impaired.

Traffic cops would then have to be trained to watch for such behavior, just like how they are trained for Drunk drivers. Its really not such a big issue.

 

[Jab-Jab]

thank you. that is my point or also they will work in a factory where there actions can set fires or harm others.

i had a coworker through presribed meds almost got me injured as he didnt tighten up on bolt. a simle bolt(one of two) that held the upper control arm in place if the other broke while i made a turn who knows how that could have worked out.

Private companies can set their own standardsd for conduct of their workers. If a company dosen't want their employees on drugs during working hours, then they have the right to make that stipulation and enforce it.

 

[jasoncran]

Private companies can set their own standardsd for conduct of their workers. If a company dosen't want their employees on drugs during working hours, then they have the right to make that stipulation and enforce it.

so if the local airport has a massive fire from the local aircraft manufacture facility that is started by such drug user. do you think that the company it going to be liable for fires that kill? destroyed homes and that isnt going to just them paying them there workers around them will have to pay more in lower wages as the cost of insurance just went up and also the innocent property owner and said insurance companies will eat the cost and charge all more. if you doubt that then why do auto insurance discourage poor driving habits? and also smoking and also wearing seatbelts and airbags and abs are encouraged?

so its going to be paid for either way. via laws enforced or as you state. so it makes no sense to legalise drugs as they already do what you say. i have seem my govt job pull a license from cdl drivers after they tested hot. and pay for them to rehab(thus your taxes are no wasted!)as they have to pay that person per union policy while he works under rehab.people do make mistakes and most persons dont fire them for that first time.

save the military if you dont come forward ere the test. even after that is a loss in wage or job efficiency as other must work more to make up the production.

 

[Jab-Jab]

smoking is defacto legalised in those medicinal pot. theres no medical research that really proves pot to be that effictive. if they wanted it for medicine then let the pharmacies grow and regulate it like any class 3 narcotic that has been legalised. but they didnt.

Marijuana dose not fit as a class 3 narcotic.

please the line about consquences is realy cute. so if my sister smokes pot and was a bad parent. how then would i be able legally remove her rights a parent?

You can't, the child is not your property. Now let me clear something. How is hypothetical sister a bad parrent? Is she physically abusing the child or neglecting the child?

you have think of those things if its legalised buddy, you cant just say all drugs are now legal and determine limits. if said pot head or druggie isnt working and needs the high where is he going to get the money?

The same place people get money for anything. It seems you forget, that cigarettes are more addictive then heroin. Yet people find ways to afford it.

from theft and crime thats how! so then the law will have to deal with him anyway.thus no change in saving govt.

I'm not talking about saving the government money, I'm talking about personal liberties. I don't think you quite understand what a libertarian is.

i am not for harsh sentences on the addicts but for valid rehab.preferably the church such as this

A church is free to do as they wish.

but hey that seperation of chruch and state denies this so the addict must have family pay for it or donation which is fine but why not have this a part of the sentence they fail to rehab, its jail time
Dunklin Memorial Camp - Christian Drug and Alcohol Regeneration Program

Church and State separation dose not say a Church can't offer a program. What the seperation means is a person can't be forced into a rehabilitation program of a religion that he/she dose not agree with.

oh btw i am independent but not a libertarian.i dont have faith in people as you do.

What faith in people are you talking about. We are people are greedy and can be cruel to get what we want. That is why we have a court and justice system.

lets say war and hurricane duty taught me a good lesson on how much of thieving,lying and greedy society we live in.

Quite off topic from personal liberties. You still haven't justified why they should be infringed.

 

[Jab-Jab]

so if the local airport has a massive fire from the local aircraft manufacture facility that is started by such drug user. do you think that the company it going to be liable for fires that kill? destroyed homes and that isnt going to just them paying them there workers around them will have to pay more in lower wages as the cost of insurance just went up and also the innocent property owner and said insurance companies will eat the cost and charge all more. if you doubt that then why do auto insurance discourage poor driving habits? and also smoking and also wearing seatbelts and airbags and abs are encouraged?

You seem to forget that fires and accidents happen all the time and the companies are responsible for what their employees do. The employer then punishes the employee. It seems like you don't understand how property or liberties work in general. If a person causes an accident that big, no matter what the cause of the accident, the individual would face massive fines and jurisdiction. This seems to be another wild hypothetical where the end will always be manipulated, so really I don't think I should have even bothered.

so its going to be paid for either way. via laws enforced or as you state. so it makes no sense to legalise drugs as they already do what you say. i have seem my govt job pull a license from cdl drivers after they tested hot. and pay for them to rehab(thus your taxes are no wasted!)as they have to pay that person per union policy while he works under rehab.people do make mistakes and most persons dont fire them for that first time.

It seems like you think I say allot of things when I don't really say them.

 

[jasoncran]

ah yes the old smoking is addictive line, but you can operate machinery with that does nicotine affect judgment?
no.

is not feeding or ensuring they have food neglect(and my sister is neither one of those) i mention that just to make a point.

lets see pot affects judgment

according to this it does. so your point on that is moot.

Driving While Smoking Marijuana And Other Drugs: Don’t Smoke, Don’t Smoke And Drive | Addiction Recovery Basics

so would you trust any pilot while he was stoned to land the bird if engine failure occured. i wouldnt. cigarettes while i wont smoke. it doesnt have that affect. judgment isnt impaired. so agian if meds are needed why does it have to be home grown? surely pharma and docs know how in a balenced manner prescribe it.

 

[jasoncran]

You seem to forget that fires and accidents happen all the time and the companies are responsible for what their employees do. The employer then punishes the employee. It seems like you don't understand how property or liberties work in general. If a person causes an accident that big, no matter what the cause of the accident, the individual would face massive fines and jurisdiction. This seems to be another wild hypothetical where the end will always be manipulated, so really I don't think I should have even bothered.

It seems like you think I say allot of things when I don't really say them.

BEACAUSE YOU IMPLY THAT GOOD WILL BECOME OF LEGALISING drugs. so again why encourage a bad vice.do you really think people just are going to stop with pot and drugs if its for the thrill of breaking a law or that gangs who make money wont find some other black market thing?

nope they will go to something else and whent that war is futile what then legalise that too? do you see the issue? people will commmit a crime anyway. encourage or legalising doesnt change the heart of those that commit crimes. some might not but then again those are the ones will seek help and get off the addiction given help. that is why i stated rehab vs prison is best choice

so what next that is futile is say theft. people steal alot dont they.

legalise larcarny ok, surely you see that.

i dont see a bunch of homeless and poor druggies in your scenaro not causing crimes in order to get their fix. how many druggies do you know just use any drug causually and can work? few.

my wife smoked pot and spent 250 usd a month on that , i nearly left her over that. my military career could have been at stake. she quit. it didnt help her with her bi-polar just covered it up.

 

[Jab-Jab]

ah yes the old smoking is addictive line,

Yeah nicitene is more addictive then heroin. Can we move on?

but you can operate machinery with that does nicotine affect judgment?
no.

You can't drink on the job either, its a fireable or punishable offense. It seems like you keep trying to circumvent this to make a point that is easily alleviated.

is not feeding or ensuring they have food neglect(and my sister is neither one of those) i mention that just to make a point.

Your point fell apart because you never defined the actual abuse.

lets see pot affects judgment

Yep.

according to this it does. so your point on that is moot.

Driving While Smoking Marijuana And Other Drugs: Don’t Smoke, Don’t Smoke And Drive | Addiction Recovery Basics

I never made such a point, I think you don't actually understand my points.

so would you trust any pilot while he was stoned to land the bird if engine failure occured. i wouldnt. cigarettes while i wont smoke. it doesnt have that affect. judgment isnt impaired.

If a company allows their pilots to drink or do drugs while flying, I'll find a different airline.

so agian if meds are needed why does it have to be home grown? surely pharma and docs know how in a balenced manner prescribe it.

Not a pharmacist, and its quite off topic.