Practice, practice, pratice

[JohnDB]

If you are praying, the devils are trying to distract you with every random thought they can come up with.
I tell them to shut up.
It works for a little while. Then they have to be told again. and again .....

So I get down on my knees to have some prayer time...

*Hey, this didn't used to hurt my knees so badly...but it's fading...I wonder how tough it's going to be to get back up*

"Oh Lord, thank you for this lovely day,,,uhhh....umm...

*Hey would you look at this carpet, I need to get the vacuum out...isn't that a thread from my favorite shirt? And that a pine needle? Where did that come from? Oh yeah...last year's Christmas tree...it was such a pretty tree and it was such a great time with all the presents we gave and food....oh I gotta get back to praying*

" Ummmmm Thank you Lord for such a great day...please teach me something new today..."

* If I can get through with this prayer time I can get the cookies baked and....oh wait, I gotta get the dishes washed first and to do that I need to run the trash out...maybe the dogs won't attack if I feed them first...dang my knees are beginning to hurt. I wish I had a thicker pad under this carpet and bought a color that hides the dirt better...the pile is holding up though on this one....ok....get back to praying*

"Thank you Lord for this day, and teach me what you want me to know...be with me as I go about each task"

*Do I have enough flour for the cookies? Maybe when I get up from here I should make a quick run to the store...and grab cash at the bank...and fill the gas tank. Hey I should probably run through the drive through too and grab some lunch.... what am I doing here? I got too much to do. Better finish up and get going*

"Thank you Lord for today...amen"

_______________________________________

Something like this?

 

[smaller]

So I get down on my knees to have some prayer time...

*Hey, this didn't used to hurt my knees so badly...but it's fading...I wonder how tough it's going to be to get back up*

"Oh Lord, thank you for this lovely day,,,uhhh....umm...

*Hey would you look at this carpet, I need to get the vacuum out...isn't that a thread from my favorite shirt? And that a pine needle? Where did that come from? Oh yeah...last year's Christmas tree...it was such a pretty tree and it was such a great time with all the presents we gave and food....oh I gotta get back to praying*

" Ummmmm Thank you Lord for such a great day...please teach me something new today..."

* If I can get through with this prayer time I can get the cookies baked and....oh wait, I gotta get the dishes washed first and to do that I need to run the trash out...maybe the dogs won't attack if I feed them first...dang my knees are beginning to hurt. I wish I had a thicker pad under this carpet and bought a color that hides the dirt better...the pile is holding up though on this one....ok....get back to praying*

"Thank you Lord for this day, and teach me what you want me to know...be with me as I go about each task"

*Do I have enough flour for the cookies? Maybe when I get up from here I should make a quick run to the store...and grab cash at the bank...and fill the gas tank. Hey I should probably run through the drive through too and grab some lunch.... what am I doing here? I got too much to do. Better finish up and get going*

"Thank you Lord for today...amen"

_______________________________________

Something like this?

Cute! I know that dialog well.

IF we are in Christ, then we understand the Perpetual Presence of the Spirit of Christ in us and with us in all things at all times:

Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Obviously part of that are various distractions.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Only if the written words are that to you--just written words.
God inhabits his written word. That means he speaks the words of written scripture into your heart through the voice of the Holy Spirit. It isn't just reading words off a page. Charismatics call that the 'Rhema' word of God. Which is in contrast to the mere written words of God.
But, like I say, if the written word is not 'Rhema' to a person, well, then it just isn't. But there's no reason it can't be.
"17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." (Romans 10:17 NASB)
"“I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it" (Jeremiah 31:33 NASB)

The "Written Word" is just that. Now I wouldn't say they are "Just written words", they are written words that were written because God inspired people to write them, and God (being a living and active God) has caused those written words to be formed into a book we call the Bible and we know it is Holy, meaning that God uses it. And the greek word for the Scriptures is Graphe. We don't hear that much in church. Graphe is never translate "Word" in your bible. It is always translated "Scriptures" or 'writings"

For example
2 Tim 3:16 All Scriptures (Graphe) is inspired by God.....
Gal 3:22 But the Scriptures (Graphe) has shut up everyone under sin so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe

So Rhema is not Graphe. Rhema and Logos is translated "word" in your Bible, but Graphe is not. But I have seen many times people hold up the Bible and say lets open up the Word. Well they don't actually match up with what is written in the Graphe.

What I find amazing, is that I don't speak Greek and nobody I know does. And what becomes very clear is that most Christians going around using Logos and Rhema don't either. We like to call the Bible/ Scriptures, "The Logos" and proclaim the Logos to be the Word of God, meaning the Scriptures are the Word of God. Then we come back and call the word we hear from the Lord personally speaking to us, 'The small voice" or the Rhema word. Yet the small voice is God speaking to us. Those who wrote the Bible heard that small voice talking to them and it was the "Word of God" to them. The writing were the Scriptures. The very Bible we are depending on does do that!

In the NT the Bible is call Scriptures, not Word! And those that wrote the Bible were trying to get you to listen to and know the Lord who speaks to you. They knew it was helpful to read the Scriptures (Graphe is you like) but it was not then and should not be know about knowing the Scriptures (though it is obviously we still have things to learn about them), but rather about knowing our Lord. We get to know Him like we get to know any person. We spend time with Him and have conversation back and forth. We should practice doing that, and read and study the Scriptures while you are at it. He like talking about the Scriptures. Perhaps He will have you go over the proper use of Logos, Rhema, and Graphe with you? Still, knowing that is not what's important! Knowing Him is what's important! So spend time talking to Him!!!

 

[K2CHRIST]

I started this thread to encourage people to practicing listening to the Lord and what He has to say to them. We say we believe in the Lord, do we? We say we believe that He is always with us, do we? Honestly check out the responses and do you think?

I see this same thing in the church in general. If you talk about hearing from the Lord a Bible thumper will jump up and say we have to follow the Bible. If I show them how the Bible explains we should hear from the Lord and even every time we turn to the right or to the left, they get upset and scoff at the idea. They don't seem to start thinking that it might be possible and so start trying to hear from Him. They might make fun of the idea of hearing from Him, but too is just scoffing at the idea of hearing from Him. So they scoff, they say that reading the Bible is hearing from Him. They do everything but actually turn to seeking Him and HIs voice by faith. If you were Him how would you feel about such a thing?

I don't always seek His voice, but that mostly because either I get busy and forget or I get unhappy with how something is going in my life and get stubborn, which is not good either. But I don't scoff and make fun of the idea that He is there with me. For my business, I need to remember to practice. For my stubbornness He sometime give me a spiritual whopping. For the scoffers, well they are not believers and something worse awaits for them.

 

[smaller]

Charismatics often resort to the voice in their heads they call "rhema."

The Written Word makes no distinctions between the logos and the rhema.

Ephesians 6:
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word (4487 - rhema) of God:

Hebrews 4:
12 For the word (3056 - logos) of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Some believers do get led into thinking the "rhema" of God or "words" in their head is a "substitute" for "the written Word" or the "Bible."

It's not.

The Word (as it is written) and the Rhema (as the Spirit gives present life) are often used interchangeably in the scriptures. Even in the same sentence:

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words (4487 - rhema), the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word (3056 - logos).

1 Peter 1:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word (3056 - logos) of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word (4487 - rhema) of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word (4487 - rhema) which by the gospel is preached unto you.

The "present day RHEMA" claims of voices in our heads is NOT a valid substitute for LOGOS. They BOTH are used and deployed "interchangeably" without "discord or disconnect."

1 Thessalonians 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word [LOGOS - 3056] of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word [logos - 3056] of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God [LOGOS - 3056], which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Do we see the "present working activity" of LOGOS [WRITTEN]? We should. It's there to be seen and perceived, by faith in Jesus.

I wouldn't hitch my wagon to words in my head when LOGOS works just FINE and is more likely to be much more 'pinpointedly ACCURATE' as to the information being conveyed.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The words of the Bible are living words, not just words. Even the old covenant written down by Moses is the living word:

37“This is the Moses who told the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your own people.’h38He was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our ancestors; and he received living words to pass on to us." (Acts 7:37-38 NIV) **

For all the people who like to degrade the written word into meer written words, these mere written words themselves say they are living words, not cold dead words on stone or paper. Like I said, the problem is not that the scriptures are just words, for God himself says they are in fact living words. The problem is some people do not have circumcised ears to hear God speaking in and through his living word.

So, instead of pushing for a different way to hear God's voice what we really need is to simply have ears to hear what God is speaking through the living words of our Bibles. But don't misunderstand, I have nothing against hearing God's voice outside of the scriptures themselves in a particular situation that requires God to do that. God did not bring a scripture to mind when he spoke into my spirit while looking at a Bryant air conditioning brochure that I would make my living from Bryant air conditioning equipment (which was completely out in left field at the time, but which ending up coming to pass). What people resist is people who claim they are hearing from God outside of scripture and inventing all kinds of foolish rubbish, even contradicting the written words of scripture. The church has to put up with these glory hounds to the very end, I suppose.

(** I'm pretty sure Steven is referring to what Moses himself said about the law being living words, but the OT reference escapes me at the moment.)

 

[smaller]

The words of the Bible are living words, not just words. Even the old covenant written down by Moses is the living word:

37“This is the Moses who told the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your own people.’h38He was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our ancestors; and he received living words to pass on to us." (Acts 7:37-38 NIV) **

For all the people who like to degrade the written word into meer written words, these mere written words themselves say they are living words, not cold dead words on stone or paper. Like I said, the problem is not that the scriptures are just words, for God himself says they are in fact living words. The problem is some people do not have circumcised ears to hear God speaking in and through his living word.

So, instead of pushing for a different way to hear God's voice what we really need is to simply have ears to hear what God is speaking through the living words of our Bibles. But don't misunderstand, I have nothing against hearing God's voice outside of the scriptures themselves in a particular situation that requires God to do that. God did not bring a scripture to mind when he spoke into my spirit while looking at a Bryant air conditioning brochure that I would make my living from Bryant air conditioning equipment (which was completely out in left field at the time, but which ending up coming to pass). What people resist is people who claim they are hearing from God outside of scripture and inventing all kinds of foolish rubbish, even contradicting the written words of scripture. The church has to put up with these glory hounds to the very end, I suppose.

(** I'm pretty sure Steven is referring to what Moses himself said about the law being living words, but the OT reference escapes me at the moment.)

Since our positions do not always coalesce, I have to agree with the sound judgment above Jethro.

Romans 7:
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 

[Jim Parker]

The words of the Bible are living words, not just words. Even the old covenant written down by Moses is the living word:

37“This is the Moses who told the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your own people.’h38He was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our ancestors; and he received living words to pass on to us." (Acts 7:37-38 NIV) **

The Greek word which the NIV renders "words" is "λόγια" (LOW gee ah) plural of "logian". It means "oracles" or "utterances" in contrast to written words. (logi or graphi)
What Moses received were utterances (logia) from God which he transferred into written form. (graphi and logi)

For all the people who like to degrade the written word into meer written words, these mere written words themselves say they are living words, not cold dead words on stone or paper.

That is incorrect. What we have on paper is exactly written words.
They are not just any written words, however, they are unique in that those written words contain the self-revelation of God to man. And, as Peter said of Jesus' words, they are the "words of eternal life." (John 6:68) No other documents can legitimately make that claim.

So, instead of pushing for a different way to hear God's voice what we really need is to simply have ears to hear what God is speaking through the living words of our Bibles.

Realizing that you are using metaphorical language, I say, "Of course!"
But that does not mean that we should not critically examine the scriptures before we pronounce our conclusions as to what was being said to whom and for what reason. Neither should we use metaphorical language, either from scripture or of our own making, to extrapolate new and wonderful meanings for the scriptures or, when we don't like what the scriptures say, to declare them to be "only metaphor" and not to be taking literally. (As so many do with regard to the Eucharist.)

A good understanding of literature is a wonderful advantage in understanding the scriptures which are, in fact, literature.

iakov the fool

 

[Brother Mike]

The Greek word which the NIV renders "words" is "λόγια" (LOW gee ah) plural of "logian". It means "oracles" or "utterances" in contrast to written words. (logi or graphi)
What Moses received were utterances (logia) from God which he transferred into written form. (graphi and logi)

That is incorrect. What we have on paper is exactly written words.
They are not just any written words, however, they are unique in that those written words contain the self-revelation of God to man. And, as Peter said of Jesus' words, they are the "words of eternal life." (John 6:68) No other documents can legitimately make that claim.

Realizing that you are using metaphorical language, I say, "Of course!"
But that does not mean that we should not critically examine the scriptures before we pronounce our conclusions as to what was being said to whom and for what reason. Neither should we use metaphorical language, either from scripture or of our own making, to extrapolate new and wonderful meanings for the scriptures or, when we don't like what the scriptures say, to declare them to be "only metaphor" and not to be taking literally. (As so many do with regard to the Eucharist.)

A good understanding of literature is a wonderful advantage in understanding the scriptures which are, in fact, literature.

iakov the fool

All scripture is to be taken literal, unless given the key. We have a lot of believers who do not take scripture literal. It's a serious issue. Your right about one thing, if someone thinks God is wrong, they say it's a Metaphor, parable, spiritual. You hear the word spiritual a lot because folks can't see or have to believe and bother with it.

By His Stripes, we are Healed.

Everything in God's Word is for Earth, Physical and explaining how the realm of the unseen (Spiritual) works.

Ecc 1:5 the sun goes up, down and hasten back to it's place.............. The sun actually does this.

However, it will be a sad time for those who called themselves believers and made God out to be a liar. Pushing the Word to make it a natural dead thing, taken over by the false sciences of man and limited understanding.

Mike.

 

[civilwarbuff]

All scripture is to be taken literal, unless given the key.

And just what is "the key"......?

 

[Brother Mike]

And just what is "the key"......?

All scripture is to be compared Spiritual with Spiritual, so if a scripture says, "AS" the Tree's of Lebanon then you know a person is not a tree, but the way tree's grow in prosperity.

If the Scripture says, Cover you with His Wings, we believe God is a chicken until we have something different. Jesus clears up that God is not a Chicken though.

Luk_13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Fake believers will say things are parables, or spiritual, metaphoric, Because they don't believe God's Word. There is no faith, and I seriously don't have time for people masquerading as Christians. You can always do a quick test though.

Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

Is that any weapon? Is that bullets, or explosives? Nuclear weapon if they were real? Is that literal?

Luk_10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Now if A person goes into all those Christians in China that were killed and ISIS is killing them so it's not literal, then you know your dealing with a fake person that does not trust God or believe what God said.

Jesus said, all things are possible to them that believe............ All things. Just as it takes faith to be saved by God's Grace, everything else in scripture works the same and is no harder.

Job_38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Is Earth fixed by the pillars or a spinning ball flying through space? Like I said, you can always sort who really believes God's Word, because a person that believes God, needs no physical evidence to have it make sense.

Mike.

 

[Jim Parker]

(** I'm pretty sure Steven is referring to what Moses himself said about the law being living words, but the OT reference escapes me at the moment.)

Bookmark "Blue Letter Bible".
It's a great tool for finding passages, looking up words, etc.

iakov the fool

All scripture is to be taken literal, unless given the key.

The "key"? What's the "key"?
Some of scripture is definitely NOT to be taken literally. When Jesus told His parables, they were stories used to illustrate a teaching. The people and events in the parables were fictional.
Some of the scriptures are apocalyptic. They are the result of the visionary attempting to put his ecstatic visions into human language. It cannot be taken literally because we don't know what the visionary saw and the meaning of the visions are subject to a wide range of speculation.
Genesis 1:1 through 2:3 is a genealogy introducing Israel's "story of us."
So, the notion that all scripture is to be taken literally unless you are given some sort of key (SOI/SSI) is a bit fanciful.

Ecc 1:5 the sun goes up, down and hasten back to it's place.............. The sun actually does this.

No. It does not. It appears to do that because the earth rotates once every 24 hours as it orbits the sun.

However, it will be a sad time for those who called themselves believers and made God out to be a liar. Pushing the Word to make it a natural dead thing, taken over by the false sciences of man and limited understanding.

What false sciences are those, Mike?

 

[Brother Mike]

Bookmark "Blue Letter Bible".
It's a great tool for finding passages, looking up words, etc.

iakov the fool

The "key"? What's the "key"?
Some of scripture is definitely NOT to be taken literally. When Jesus told His parables, they were stories used to illustrate a teaching. The people and events in the parables were fictional.
Some of the scriptures are apocalyptic. They are the result of the visionary attempting to put his ecstatic visions into human language. It cannot be taken literally because we don't know what the visionary saw and the meaning of the visions are subject to a wide range of speculation.
Genesis 1:1 through 2:3 is a genealogy introducing Israel's "story of us."
So, the notion that all scripture is to be taken literally unless you are given some sort of key (SOI/SSI) is a bit fanciful.

No. It does not. It appears to do that because the earth rotates once every 24 hours as it orbits the sun.

What false sciences are those, Mike?

Even parables are taken literal. Parables tell us how spiritual things work comparing natural. The young son that left to spend his money on drinking, video games and girls. It's a parable, but it's true for us the same if one of us leave, and "Come to ourselves" we are greeted back by the Father the same.

The earth is fixed in place, it does not move. It does not fly 67,000 mph around the sun, while the sun is zooming through space at 483,000 mph. If you read the Genesis account, it's a flat plane, God divided the water from the water with the Firmament, the bottom water Dry land appears. God set the moon, sun and stars in the firmament just below the water above for a light to earth. The sun and moon move above us as well as the star system (Psalm 19) The sun resets back to it's tabernacle and runs again 2 degrees different 365 days a year.

This is what I am talking about taking scripture literal. If you don't, then simple things like how the Earth works just zips by you, while your defending against evolution. The same folks that brought us evolution put the globe in your classroom. They are all Freemasons, God hating people. It's far more easy to prove the Earth is as scripture says than to disprove evolution. However, if the earth is as scripture says (And it is) then evolution gets chopped at the roots.

Seriously, not that we have any optical device to tell if the Earth is moving or things move above (Einstein) Planes don't land on something spinning 940 mph in North America. Nothing in Gravity keeps the planes reference point to earth, the Plane being under it's own power. Nothing in the Atmospheric densite that constantly changes with the plane or wind directions that change keep the planes reference to earth............. IT's NOT SPINNING.

Besides, we have video of the sun reset anyway, this happens in the pacific Ocean. Some called it Niribu which is nonsense, or however you spell it.

1Ch_16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psa_104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

If God said it's not moving, you can count on it.


Blessings.
Mike.

 

[Jim Parker]

Even parables are taken literal. Parables tell us how spiritual things work comparing natural. The young son that left to spend his money on drinking, video games and girls. It's a parable, but it's true for us the same if one of us leave, and "Come to ourselves" we are greeted back by the Father the same.

(sigh)

 

[civilwarbuff]

I am with you JP.......
Though it does seem strange that someone complaining about 'false sciences' is using an electrical device to communicate with with people hundreds/thousands of miles away thru wires, other electronic equipment and even thin air unquestioningly but denies basic astronomical observations

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is incorrect. What we have on paper is exactly written words.

'Just' written words.
The Bible is not just written words as some insist.
They are only written words for those who do not hear the voice of God inhabiting those written words.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Even parables are taken literal. Parables tell us how spiritual things work comparing natural. The young son that left to spend his money on drinking, video games and girls. It's a parable, but it's true for us the same if one of us leave, and "Come to ourselves" we are greeted back by the Father the same.

The earth is fixed in place, it does not move. It does not fly 67,000 mph around the sun, while the sun is zooming through space at 483,000 mph. If you read the Genesis account, it's a flat plane, God divided the water from the water with the Firmament, the bottom water Dry land appears. God set the moon, sun and stars in the firmament just below the water above for a light to earth. The sun and moon move above us as well as the star system (Psalm 19) The sun resets back to it's tabernacle and runs again 2 degrees different 365 days a year.

This is what I am talking about taking scripture literal. If you don't, then simple things like how the Earth works just zips by you, while your defending against evolution. The same folks that brought us evolution put the globe in your classroom. They are all Freemasons, God hating people. It's far more easy to prove the Earth is as scripture says than to disprove evolution. However, if the earth is as scripture says (And it is) then evolution gets chopped at the roots.

Seriously, not that we have any optical device to tell if the Earth is moving or things move above (Einstein) Planes don't land on something spinning 940 mph in North America. Nothing in Gravity keeps the planes reference point to earth, the Plane being under it's own power. Nothing in the Atmospheric densite that constantly changes with the plane or wind directions that change keep the planes reference to earth............. IT's NOT SPINNING.

Besides, we have video of the sun reset anyway, this happens in the pacific Ocean. Some called it Niribu which is nonsense, or however you spell it.

1Ch_16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psa_104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

If God said it's not moving, you can count on it.


Blessings.
Mike.

You're scaring me, Mikey.

 

[smaller]

Even parables are taken literal. Parables tell us how spiritual things work comparing natural. The young son that left to spend his money on drinking, video games and girls. It's a parable, but it's true for us the same if one of us leave, and "Come to ourselves" we are greeted back by the Father the same.

The earth is fixed in place, it does not move. It does not fly 67,000 mph around the sun, while the sun is zooming through space at 483,000 mph. If you read the Genesis account, it's a flat plane, God divided the water from the water with the Firmament, the bottom water Dry land appears. God set the moon, sun and stars in the firmament just below the water above for a light to earth. The sun and moon move above us as well as the star system (Psalm 19) The sun resets back to it's tabernacle and runs again 2 degrees different 365 days a year.

This is what I am talking about taking scripture literal. If you don't, then simple things like how the Earth works just zips by you, while your defending against evolution. The same folks that brought us evolution put the globe in your classroom. They are all Freemasons, God hating people. It's far more easy to prove the Earth is as scripture says than to disprove evolution. However, if the earth is as scripture says (And it is) then evolution gets chopped at the roots.

Seriously, not that we have any optical device to tell if the Earth is moving or things move above (Einstein) Planes don't land on something spinning 940 mph in North America. Nothing in Gravity keeps the planes reference point to earth, the Plane being under it's own power. Nothing in the Atmospheric densite that constantly changes with the plane or wind directions that change keep the planes reference to earth............. IT's NOT SPINNING.

Besides, we have video of the sun reset anyway, this happens in the pacific Ocean. Some called it Niribu which is nonsense, or however you spell it.

1Ch_16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psa_104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

If God said it's not moving, you can count on it.

Blessings.
Mike.

Mike, you have my prayers that you don't fall of the edge of the earth, and think that anyone who looks up and sees a round earth and round sun and happens to logically connect that the earth may also be, likewise, is not SAVED.

Using the flat earth as a faith test? Seriously, let's move on.

The question, regarding parables however is legit.

In Mark 4 (and in the other seed parables) we are given the parables in TWO ways.

The first way, as a parable. THEN, the second, the REALITY of those parables, with specifics, to connect the "terms and conditions" of the first parable to REALITY.

So, are parables REAL? Absolutely, they are ROCK SOLID reality. But the meanings of those parables are only given and disclosed, quite purposefully, to His disciples. And there is a very sound principle behind that matter.

There is a natural man delivery of those parables. The natural man ISN'T MEANT to understand them, and they won't and can't understand, UNLESS they are Jesus' disciples and they are LED by Jesus, to FOLLOW HIM to HIS conclusions.

These "elementary" principles are laid out by Paul, in detail, here:

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 15:46
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

So, yes, to "disciples" they will be shown, IF they follow Jesus, as the SECOND MAN, the SPIRITUAL MAN, the "born again" by incorruptible seed (LOGOS/WORD) MAN does, the reality of the parables. And that reality applied then, applied from DAY ONE OF THE FIRST MAN, and applies to this day.

They are not "merely stories." They are hard line REALITY.

Was Paul a 'second man?' IF Paul would have asked Saul, Saul wouldn't have had a CLUE.

Now, ask me why the "natural people" of Israel didn't understand God or His Christ. The answer is right in front of our noses. Ask me why HIS CHURCH hears? Only His Church is meant to hear. And there are very easy ways to discern "who hears" and "who does not."

 

[Brother Mike]

You're scaring me, Mikey.

Ah, what are we not to take literal concerning scripture? The Word is Alive, right? Jesus said, I come with a sword. Did He really? It's OK though, because it pleases God if you read He word and say, that is just how it is, Jesus had a Sword. God can reveal His word to someone like that because they read His Word by Faith.

Reading a book one time written by a guy who claimed that Scripture concerning salvation we can trust, but when it came to science we have to understand that the Bible is not always correct. I read His Statement thinking, you need to get saved buddy. He brought up the Coney, (Wrascle Wabbit) He said that Wabbits don't chew the Cud, so God was wrong on that one. He said He had a degree in this and that and knows for a fact wabbits don't chew cud.

My response was, If God said Wabbits chew cud, then there are some Cud chewing wabbits and science has just never caught them at it. That is how I look at God's Word, and though this, God has used me in some amazing things. I qualify, because I don't question God over the sciences of men.

We can be corrected if our heart is right toward God. A Right heart believes everything He said, and believes God would never complicate of confuse us. A person will discount scripture as allegory if they don't want to believe it. That is a wrong heart toward God. God can't fix that as the person chooses to be self deceived. Even knowing sound doctrine does not start with study and more study. It starts with a heart that wants to do the will of God. It's a heart thing. Jesus said that.

Turns out, Wabbits do in fact Chew cud. The Hebrew Word means already chewed, and Wabbits spit up and eat it again, just they don't do it like clove hoofed animals.

So what is not to be taken literal Brother? Judas Hung himself? Ya, not a answer for us or Judas, but He did Hang himself.

Blessings.
Mike.

 

[Jim Parker]

Even parables are taken literal. Parables tell us how spiritual things work comparing natural.

First, that would be "literally", because the word "taken" is a verb and a verb is modified by an adverb. That adverbial form of "literal" is "literally."
Second, for a parable to be taken literally, every person, place, thing and event would have to be actual historic people, places, things and events.
But they are not.
A parable is a made up story used to illustrate a truth.
A parable is an extended form of metaphor.
It is not the video tape of the actual people, places, things and events.

The truth which a parable presents does not make the parable literal. The truth must be extracted from the story of the parable and, since it is not specifically spelled out in the parable, it cannot be deemed to be "literal." The truth itself is not written down, in so many words, in the bit of literature we call a parable.

To take a parable or a metaphor literally leads to wrong conclusions.
For example, the disciples of Jesus took His words literally and came to a completely wrong conclusion:
Mat 16:6-12 (NKJV)
Then Jesus said to them, “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.” And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “It is because we have taken no bread.”

But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, “O you of little faith, why do you reason among yourselves because you have brought no bread? Do you not yet understand, or remember the five loaves of the five thousand and how many baskets you took up? Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many large baskets you took up? How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread?—but to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

So there are metaphors and parables in the Bible which, although they communicate eternal truths, they are not to be taken literally as the record of events, things, places and people and the words people spoke. They are a fabricated story used to relate an eternal truth.

I hope that helps.

iakov the fool