pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

[Eugene]

How can Christ begin His reign at some future time when at the resurrection the LAST enemy is destroyed and Christ Himself becomes subject? And how can satan or any other enemy appear after the so called millennium when are ALL enemies are destroyed at the resurrection which is BEFORE the millennium?

Brother, they are not destroyed before the millennium, but at the end of it as we read in:
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I would ask that if Satan is presently in the lake of fire, and death destroyed why there is sin and death among us? Thanks.

 

[thethinker]

Brother, they are not destroyed before the millennium, but at the end of it as we read in:
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I don't believe that Christ's enemies are destroyed before the millennium. I have publically denied that there is a millennium. It is the Premillennialists that believe that Paul's last trumpet is blown BEFORE the millennium. But if the last enemy is destroyed at the last trumpet, and if the word "destroyed" means "to eradicate," then how can there be enemies to appear after the millennium as the Premillennialists teach? That was my point. I was trying to show that Premillennialism cannot be true. I see now that I was not clear.

I would ask that if Satan is presently in the lake of fire, and death destroyed why there is sin and death among us? Thanks.

Again I was trying to show that Premillennialism cannot be true. Neither can there definitions be correct. The word "destroy" does not mean to eradicate. It means "to render powerless." Death no longer has power over the people of God. Death still exists in the new heaven and earth. Men still age (Isaiah 65:20). But death no longer has power over the people of God.

 

[thethinker]

1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. We haven’t seen this happen, we don’t see our last enemy death swallowed up in victory. This chapter is talking of the Last Trump.

I just read JLB’s response before this and it too can refer to nothing but the end. I reckon we must just be convinced in our own hearts.

The "end' is the end of the mediatoral kingdom. "Then comes the end when He may have delivered up the kingdom to the Father." At that time all Christ's enemies are destroyed (rendered powerless), and the eternal kingdom is ushered in. Paul uses no future tense verbs in his dissertation.

Please note that there are still enemies in the new heaven and earth. They lurk outside the gates of the New Jerusalem (Rev. 22:15). But they have no power.

 

[Eugene]

The word "destroy" does not mean to eradicate. It means "to render powerless." Death no longer has power over the people of God. Death still exists in the new heaven and earth. Men still age (Isaiah 65:20). But death no longer has power over the people of God.

Of course I think you are aware that the word "Destroy" in addition to being interpreted "Rendered powerless" can be understood to be destroyed also. My question would now be: if death is rendered powerless why is it only against God's people, and not all? Satan, the antichrist, and False Prophet are all in the Lake of Fire. Then we come to Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 Peter 3:10-13. "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Thanks.

 

[Eugene]

The "end' is the end of the mediatoral kingdom. "Then comes the end when He may have delivered up the kingdom to the Father." At that time all Christ's enemies are destroyed (rendered powerless), and the eternal kingdom is ushered in. Paul uses no future tense verbs in his dissertation.

Please note that there are still enemies in the new heaven and earth. They lurk outside the gates of the New Jerusalem (Rev. 22:15). But they have no power.

As to Revelation 22:15 I’ll just paste an excerpt of the study of Revelation I have given by Gene Hawkins because I have no idea. "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." All of these are the traits of the flesh and the dogs are simply a reference to extremely wicked men that we find in Psalm 22:16 where Jesus said "For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet" but I believe this term "Without" is a reference to outer darkness with all these things and that is just going to be so far removed from this new city of light. There's going to be no contact, proximity or closeness at all with darkness to this wonderful city of light. It wouldn't be heaven if there any such thing as this comes any where near, so outer darkness really is darkness.

Thanks and blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Destructus86]

No! The Revelation says that at the harvest He thrusts His sickle while sitting upon a cloud (Rev. 14:14-16). The harvest is the judgment. Therefore, He judges while sitting upon a cloud. It seems that no one here wants to deal with this.

1.It is actually His Father's throne. He sits upon it as mediator. Christ is a mediatoral king as His father David. David's throne was God's throne (1 Kings 2:12;1 Chronicles 29:23). So, Christ's throne is God's throne.

2. The Revelation doesn't deal with Christ's session upon a throne. It says that He takes the scroll out of the right hand of the One who sits upon the throne (5:1-8). Therefore, Christ is NOT the One who sits upon the throne.

You missed verse 21. The Father and the Son are both involved in the judgment. But the Son is the mediatoral judge.

What!! Paul said that they are caught up to meet Him in the air. He says NOTHING about Christ coming to earth. He says only that He descends from heaven, and that He catches up His people to meet Him in the air.

"Coming in a cloud with power and glory" is actually an old testament metaphor for judgement. It's not literal. Often times Jesus and even the apostles would use old testament metaphors to explain things because for people back then it made sense. It was something they could easily understand.

To say that Christ is currently not on the throne is blasphemy and you need to repent.

"'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." (Revelation 3:21)

There are over a dozen verses that say Jesus is already on the throne. The blasphemy of pre-trib and christian zionism has infested Christianity and warped the Holy Scripture and its people.


Just to add one more thing...if the prophecies in the bible are of a far future event then why is there no mention of the biggest moment in Christian and Jewish history? The mass slaughter of Christians and the destruction of the temple and city?

Here...watch this.

 

[JLB]

"Coming in a cloud with power and glory" is actually an old testament metaphor for judgement. It's not literal. Often times Jesus and even the apostles would use old testament metaphors to explain things because for people back then it made sense. It was something they could easily understand.

Those metaphors were shadows of a very real and literal event that will occur at the end of the age.

It's called the Day of the Lord.

Every eye will see Him! Literally.

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


This is a literal event, whereby all the tribes of the earth will literally see Him and mourn.

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." Acts 1:9-11

They literally saw Him go!

We will literally see Him Come again!

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7

and again -

10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10


Jesus Christ will literally return to earth, and every eye will literally see Him!


JLB