Preaching the gospel in Israel during the time of the two witnesses.

[Shilohsfoal]

Seriously you said two men call for fire .no tanks ,no guns.


Look you have arty .
These are 155 self propelled and towed.
Those have No defense against tanks as they are in attached to units who provide security when major Audie Murphy got his first moh it was because he was over ran by German panzers.

You words said that .

What army has the ability to stop rain and turn rivers to blood and also plaques?

Arty is a defensive weapon ,not an offensive you can use naval fire and cas to suppress the enemy as you move and arty from a defensive set up but not on the move .arty is used to cover units as they advance and to protect units from advances.but never by itself can it take territory .

In an arid land like the middle east where the armed forces of the north stop it from raining,it's not that hard to stop it from raining.

This army has the ability to stop it from raining.

Daniel 11
31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.


It's called cloud seading.Its an outlawed form of economical warfare.
I remember reading where Paul McCartney paid to have the sky seeded for one of his concerts so that it would not rain.If I remember correctly,it was in Moscow.

Cloud seeding is not the strongest weapon the north has though.The armed forces of the north also has the abomination that causes desolation.
Just one of these devices can destroy a city the size of Hiroshima.
So when you look at this way,cloud seeding isn't all as miraculous as some might think.Its a common technology.

The Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques (ENMOD) is the only international framework related to the regulation of weather and climate modification technologies. Historically developed after cloud seeding operations were conducted during the Vietnam War and the Cold War,[95][96][97] the convention's scope of application solely encompasses military or any other hostile uses of weather modification technologies.[98] Indeed, the use of weather modification programs for peaceful purposes is not prohibited by the treaty.[98] However, ENMOD has been criticised for its many weaknesses, notably regarding the vagueness and ambiguity of notions leaving room for various interpretations.[95][96]

 

[JLB]

If you want to believe the gentiles treading Jerusalem under foot are site seers ,thats fine with me.You won't understand it when it happens anyway.

What the Gentiles are doing during that time is irrelevant.

These two witnesses are sent and empowered by God.
These two witnesses are associated with God, not the Gentiles.

• And I will give power to my two witnesses,

They have the God given ability to:

Prophesy
Destroy with fire those who want to harm them
Shut up the heavens so it doesn’t rain
Turn water into blood
Strike the earth with plagues

… they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. Revelation 11:3-6



JLB

 

[Shilohsfoal]

What the Gentiles are doing during that time is irrelevant.

These two witnesses are sent and empowered by God.
These two witnesses are associated with God, not the Gentiles.

• And I will give power to my two witnesses,

They have the God given ability to:

Prophesy
Destroy with fire those who want to harm them
Shut up the heavens so it doesn’t rain
Turn water into blood
Strike the earth with plagues

… they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. Revelation 11:3-6



JLB

Scripture says what the gentiles are doing in Jerusalem during that time.

Revelation 11
4 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth

Jerusalem is controlled by those gentiles for those 42 months.The word says "it is given to them".Fire comes out of their mouths to devour their enemies.


You just can't seem to comprehend the scripture is talking about the gentiles that are in the context of the scripture.Thats why you remove the word gentiles when you quote the scripture.Gentiles is not part of your narrative even though it is part of God's narrative.

 

[JLB]

Scripture says what the gentiles are doing in Jerusalem during that time.

Revelation 11
4 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth

Jerusalem is controlled by those gentiles for those 42 months.Fire comes out of their mouths to devour their enemies.

Please provide the scripture that says “fire comes out of the mouth of the Gentiles mouth“.


The fire comes out of the two witnesses mouth, not the Gentiles.


These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner.
Revelation 11:4-5




JLB

 

[eddif]

Again nothing in scripture teaches that the two witnesses are Gentiles or “leaders” of some Gentile army.

These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. Revelation 11:4-6


These two witnesses are empowered by God to:

• Prophesy
• Shut up heaven so that no rain falls
• Turn the waters into blood
• StrIke the earth with plagues
• Kill people who try to harm them by fire from their mouth

These two witnesses are sent by God Himself, and do not lead some Gentile army.




JLB

Any chance one of the olive trees leads a group of converted Christian gentiles?

I Am keeping my question ultra brief on purpose.

Welcome back.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[JLB]

Any chance one of the olive trees leads a group of converted Christian gentiles?

I Am keeping my question ultra brief on purpose.

Welcome back.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

These two witnesses are sent by God.

You can find reference to them in Zechariah 4.

In my opinion, these are the two that were with the Lord when He visited Abraham during the Sodom and Gomorrah incident, and witnessed His resurrection when He rose from the dead.

They have been empowered by Him to do many supernatural things.


I don’t see where they are associated with any Gentiles.

It was lawful for Gentiles to have access to the outer court.

What we need to be discussing is the fact that there will be another Temple built in Jerusalem in these last days.



JLB

 

[journeymanisnothing]

That's false. Scripture does not say the truth comes from the mouths of the two witnesses.Its fire that proceeds from their mouths .

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

No where does it say truth comes from their mouths .The only word said to proceed from their mouths is the word fire.The word used to devour their enemies.

Fire commands are oral orders issued by leaders to focus and distribute fires as required achieving decisive effects against the enemy. They allow leaders to rapidly and concisely articulate their firing instructions using a standard format (Refer to TC 3-20.31-4 for more information

They're called witnesses because they testify. It says when they finish their "testimony..."...and the testimony of 2 men is true.

You're assuming those who want to harm the witnesses are burned immediately, but the text never says that,

and if any one may will to injure them, fire doth proceed out of their mouth, and doth devour their enemies, and if any one may will to injure them, thus it behoveth him to be killed. Rev.11:5

That goes with this,

Is it not thus? My word is as a fire, An affirmation of Jehovah Jer.23:29

and this,

the word that I spake, that will judge him in the last day, Jn.12:48

 

[journeymanisnothing]

And you got it backwards.Its not those who belong to Christ who will run and hide in the caves of the mountains on the day of the Lord.Its his enemies that run and hide from.him.
The Lord only tell his servants to raise their heads.

Luke 21
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

I was referring to,

Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; Lk.21:21

You cited Lk.20, but then skipped down to vs.28.

Those who are redeemed,have no need to run.They are not saved by their athletic ability,they are saved by the Lord.

I fully agree. That's why I pointed out how "fleeing to the mountains" is "running to Christ."

Anyway Shilohsfoal,
I thought your observation in the op, where there's a contrast between believers being persecuted and two believers killing anyone who persecutes them, was very astute.
I believe it's a matter of perspective. There's a wide difference between how God sees things and how mankind sees them.
For instance, you understand how brilliantly clean and pure Jesus always appeared to our Father, but mankind said,

"we know that this man is a sinner." (Jn.9:24) and in this way,

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin 2Cor.5:21

In other words, Jesus allowed himself to be lied about by sinners.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

They're called witnesses because they testify. It says when they finish their "testimony..."...and the testimony of 2 men is true.

You're assuming those who want to harm the witnesses are burned immediately, but the text never says that,

and if any one may will to injure them, fire doth proceed out of their mouth, and doth devour their enemies, and if any one may will to injure them, thus it behoveth him to be killed. Rev.11:5

That goes with this,

Is it not thus? My word is as a fire, An affirmation of Jehovah Jer.23:29

and this,

the word that I spake, that will judge him in the last day, Jn.12:48

Your assuming that they speak the truth.You know what happens when you assume?

But they are prophets.They remind me of Balaam.Only they don't have a talking donkey.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I was referring to,

Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; Lk.21:21

You cited Lk.20, but then skipped down to vs.28.

I fully agree. That's why I pointed out how "fleeing to the mountains" is "running to Christ."

Anyway Shilohsfoal,
I thought your observation in the op, where there's a contrast between believers being persecuted and two believers killing anyone who persecutes them, was very astute.
I believe it's a matter of perspective. There's a wide difference between how God sees things and how mankind sees them.
For instance, you understand how brilliantly clean and pure Jesus always appeared to our Father, but mankind said,

"we know that this man is a sinner." (Jn.9:24) and in this way,

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin 2Cor.5:21

In other words, Jesus allowed himself to be lied about by sinners.

No,fleeing to the mountains is not fleeing to Christ.Those who flee to the mountains hide from Christ in the caves of the mountains.The whole purpose of fleeing to the mountains is to get to the caves.In Israel they are called doomsday dens.

Revelation 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


If you were happy to see Christ you wouldn't flee at all.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I was referring to,

Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; Lk.21:21

You cited Lk.20, but then skipped down to vs.28.

I fully agree. That's why I pointed out how "fleeing to the mountains" is "running to Christ."

Anyway Shilohsfoal,
I thought your observation in the op, where there's a contrast between believers being persecuted and two believers killing anyone who persecutes them, was very astute.
I believe it's a matter of perspective. There's a wide difference between how God sees things and how mankind sees them.
For instance, you understand how brilliantly clean and pure Jesus always appeared to our Father, but mankind said,

"we know that this man is a sinner." (Jn.9:24) and in this way,

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin 2Cor.5:21

In other words, Jesus allowed himself to be lied about by sinners.

Jesus didn't kill and torment other people.The two witnesses are professionals at killing and tormenting other people.

You really can't even compare them to Christ.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Your assuming that they speak the truth.You know what happens when you assume?

I'm not assuming. The point of two witnesses in scripture, comes from Gods' law (Deu.17:2-7) and was intended by God for the purpose of seeking truth.
This is why, whenever Jesus is portrayed as being something sinful, it's paramount that Christians understand it's because he was being condemned by "false witnesses."

But they are prophets.They remind me of Balaam.Only they don't have a talking donkey.

That's funny, because after fire fell because of his faith, the man who spoke for God killed Balaams prophets,

And it cometh to pass, at noon, that Elijah playeth on them, and saith, 'Call with a loud voice, for he is a god, for he is meditating, or pursuing, or on a journey; it may be he is asleep, an doth awake.' 1Kin.18:27

Some believe the term "pursuing" means "to relieve oneself." Isn't that hilarious?
"Hey, maybe baal can't hear you, because he's going to the bathroom!"

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Jesus didn't kill and torment other people.The two witnesses are professionals at killing and tormenting other people.

The gospel our Savior preached tormented a lot of people, especially among the religious leaders.
But the fire, which is the truth of Gods' word, is manifested later.

You really can't even compare them to Christ.

That's what many scribes, the Drs' of the OT, thought when comparing Jesus their Messiah with the OT prophets.

The men with the credentials. The people in power. Those who "sat in Moses seat." The ones who spoke for God. They didn't recognize Jesus. Seems unimaginable, doesn't it?