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Okay. So you're on the predestination side.I thought I answered that above....but, here goes again. God chooses to have you hear the gospel through a sister, brother, friend, preacher...who ever.
John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
John 15:19 If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.
Well Reba,Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Would man ever choose God with his 'freewill' ?
This 'thread' is a question/topic/discussion, that has bounced around in my head for pushing 20 years now...
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Why WOULDN'T man choose God with his free will?
Does man have free will or not?
Brother Paul, nice post.
I think we should break apart the meaning of free-will.
1) Free-will concerning day to day activities and choices.
2) Free-will concerning our salvation.
In the above I would say "yes" to number 1 and "no" to number 2....with a slight nuance to salvation and free-will. It is my belief that God has to "enable" us, so to speak, so that we can now freely choose Jesus.
We agree on practically everything and I don't see why you have a problem with this.
Why WOULDN'T man choose God with his free will?
Does man have free will or not?
Have you stopped to consider what it means if man DOES NOT have free will?
It means all the problems you have have been given to you and created especially for you by the God you love and serve.
It means that every bad thing that happens is courtesy of the God you serve.
It means that if your daughter or son or husband, is not saved, you can blame it on the God you serve because HE and HE alone has decided NOT to save them.
It means that God created hell so He could send the people He doesn't like and didn't choose to be left there for eternity.
Nice God, what do you think?
Is THIS the God you wish to serve and have made sacrifices for?
Could you bounce that around and then come to a definite decision?
The Holy Spirit who guides us to all truth, and Jesus who loves each and every person alive and wishes them to be saved of their own free choice, will help you.
And because I'm becoming a little bit afraid of the written word, just so there's no misunderstanding as to the spirit with which I speak, here's a for you!
Okay. So you're on the predestination side.
I'm afraid WIP is 100% right.
Maybe the next verse, 17 says that we're to love one another, and much of what he told the apostles could be also for each and every one of us, however, in John 15:16 and in John 15:19 Jesus was speaking specifically to the Apostles. He knew that the world would hate them when they went out to preach.
If you remember Jesus even told them to shake the dust off their feet as they go out of a house where they are not welcomed.
Mathew 10:14 Amongst much other advice, like being as wise as serpents and gentle as doves.
If you move on down to John 15:27
you'll see that Jesus even tells the Apostles he's speaking to that they will bear witness because they have been with Him from the beginning.
WE were not with Jesus from the beginning.
Yes...of course.Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Paul was quoting Scripture ... it says there is none that seek God.. is God's Word correct as penned by Paul..
this is a real quandary to me
Cygnus,Wondering, let me ask you this seemingly simple question...
Lets assume you have free-will and you choose Jesus..or you don't choose Jesus. What is your acceptance or rejection of Jesus based upon?
Might I suggest your choice is based upon life's experiences?
Cygnus,You can believe Jesus' words were meant for the apostles if you want to...you have free-will to do so...but Jesus also said:
John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never turn away.
Seems like you have to be granted, drawn and given.
The issue boils down to whether God -- who made provision for the salvation of all men -- would turn around and choose (predestine) some for Heaven and others for Hell.Why do you think Calvinism and predestination verse freewill and a persons ability to choose has caused such problems?