Predestination in light of 1 Corinthians 9:16

[Iconoclast]

Very few non-Calvinists are capable of understanding it, Iconoclast?

I am not sure where they stand. I have to leave it to God.I fear many do not take it serious or respect the word of God.

I'm familiar with the Chapter. You are adding to the text. Tell me in what part of ὅτι οὓς προέγνω, καὶ προώρισεν συμμόρφους τῆς εἰκόνος τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ do you read "predestined unto salvation."

I do not read where unsaved persons have the Holy Spirit or are conformed to the image of Jesus, justified, or glorified...Is that in the text?

You do the same thing with Galatians 1:15-16. But when asked several times to give an interpretation of what Paul meant by the phrase, "Woe be unto me if I do not preach the gospel," suddenly you refuse to speculate. Why?

I do not speculate, or use philosophy in place of revealed truth.

My suspicion is that the natural conclusions you might come to would not reflect well on Calvinist theology, so suddenly you excuse yourself from speculation on the grounds it is theologically risky.

That is not even a thought on my radar. The truth of God stands the test of time. Nothing risky about anything I believe.

But the question is this: Did "woe be unto me if I don't preach the gospel" mean "I need to preach the gospel because I need to make my calling and election sure," or was he saying something more along the lines of "If I turn around and denounce the call of God on my life after the Lord Jesus Christ has appeared to me personally, I could be potentially destroying myself."

I do not see any indication of any of that with Paul, he was betrayed, beaten, imprisoned, but never lost focus on what Jesus revealed to Him, your thoughts are far away from reality here.

Luke 12 states the following:

42 And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. 45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

Paul was not preaching out of a threat turning the grace of God into a works salvation

Paul was given much, and therefore a great deal was required of him spiritually and he knew it. This is why he uttered the phrase, "Woe be unto me if I do not preach the gospel." What did Jesus say would happen to His servants who did not do according to His will but failed to give His household spiritual food in their due season, as they were called to do and commanded to do? He said they would be cut asunder and appointed their portion with the unbelievers. This coincides with Matthew 24 where He said such servants would be allotted their portion with the hypocrites, where there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

you are welcome to your speculation, but it looks like a vivid imagination on your part.Paul was certainly not a hypocrite.

What is the conclusion to all this? That those given great responsibilities before God, even those called from their mother's womb, nevertheless cannot simply denounce their calling and abandon those God has asked them to minister to and spiritually protect. If they do, they can expect little more than weeping and gnashing of teeth in eternity. That they will be placed with the unbelievers means they were something else, but ended up suffering the same fate as unbelievers because they did not act responsibly towards their callings in Christ.

I do not share your conclusion/speculation

 

[Hidden In Him]

I do not read where unsaved persons have the Holy Spirit or are conformed to the image of Jesus, justified, or glorified...Is that in the text?

It is irrelevant unless one assumes the saved cannot lose their salvation.

Try answering my questions for once. If you refuse yet again, I will have to assume you are incapable of discussing scripture or answering questions.

 

[Iconoclast]

It is irrelevant unless one assumes the saved cannot lose their salvation.

Try answering my questions for once. If you refuse yet again, I will have to assume you are incapable of discussing scripture or answering questions.

You have not answered me once, because you cannot.
You avoid the golden chain of redemption because it is unbreakable, so you divert to some vain speculation to distract from the real issue.
I asked you to respond to Romans 8:29-30...because I know you cannot, so you divert away from the text, and deliver a bogus ultimatum, lol...yeah right.
You cannot walk through the end of Romans or in fact any of Romans 8 can you?

 

[Hidden In Him]

You cannot walk through the end of Romans or in fact any of Romans 8 can you?

So long, Iconoclast. Maybe we'll talk again in eternity if you make it.
- H

 

[Iconoclast]

So long, Iconoclast. Maybe we'll talk again in eternity if you make it.
- H

First I thought you were sincere, now you run and hide
The Golden chain of redemption along with Jn 6:37-44 exposes you and others.
If you want to look at it, I will be here.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So long, Iconoclast. Maybe we'll talk again in eternity if you make it.
- H

In dealing with some people, you come to understand the scripture that says

"Go, and say to this people:
“‘Keep on hearing,c but do not understand;
keep on seeing,d but do not perceive.’
10Make the heart of this people dull,e
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”

Now this sounds like God is making people blind and hard of hearing but if you read the whole bit, you see that God sends servants to speak to people and speak to people and plead with people SO THAT they are brought to a decision. That is a kindness. He does not leave them to fall into destruction slowly and without warning. But the method itself, which is speaking to them and drawing them, if you will, will render them blind and deaf should they refuse it. So this is not GOD rendering them blind and deaf but they themselves refusing the words of God so often, they do this to themselves. Maybe I am not explaining it well, but I came to understand the meaning behind these passages by talking and talking and talking to Calvinists showing them the scriptures and being met with a wall of not understanding. It was a total wall. They have rendered themselves blind and deaf to the obvious. So I saw the mercy of God in these scriptures, not the cruelty that He is often accused of in these verses.

 

[Iconoclast]

Predestination - William Downing

www.sg-audiotreasures.org

https://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/downing/02wd_predestin.mp3

https://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/downing/03wd_predestin.mp3

 

[GodsGrace]

Predestination - William Downing

www.sg-audiotreasures.org

https://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/downing/02wd_predestin.mp3

https://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/downing/03wd_predestin.mp3

I don't know Icon.
An hour long. And we don't even know who's speaking.
Someone YOU agree with, of course.
Could you dwindle it down to 25 words or less?

BTW, I fully agree with Dorothy Mae .

I sometimes feel like we're reading two different bibles OR you just will not even HEAR what people are saying.
Just like in Isaiah 6:8-11...

The problem is that we have two different views of God.
And one won't be correct. By necessity.
You feel everyone is blind and can't seek God and God MAKES them that way OR satan makes them that way from birth, but that's another story.

We see God as a creator that loves His creation, cares for them, wants them TO SEE and HEAR and wants them to turn to Him, which means we have the ability to seek Him, so that He can save us.

Two totally different views.

 

[GodsGrace]

First I thought you were sincere, now you run and hide
The Golden chain of redemption along with Jn 6:37-44 exposes you and others.
If you want to look at it, I will be here.

I truly doubt Hidden In Him needs to hide from you.
It's just that you become so exhausting!

 

[Iconoclast]

I don't know Icon.
An hour long. And we don't even know who's speaking.
Someone YOU agree with, of course.
Could you dwindle it down to 25 words or less?

No these are lectures , I will look for shorter ones, but those I listen to have much to say.

BTW, I fully agree with Dorothy Mae .

I sometimes feel like we're reading two different bibles OR you just will not even HEAR what people are saying.
Just like in Isaiah 6:8-11...

The problem is that we have two different views of God.
And one won't be correct. By necessity.
You feel everyone is blind and can't seek God and God MAKES them that way OR satan makes them that way from birth, but that's another story.

We see God as a creator that loves His creation, cares for them, wants them TO SEE and HEAR and wants them to turn to Him, which means we have the ability to seek Him, so that He can save us.

Two totally different views.

Many who did not like what I offer now do. I cannot get anyone to change their view, but believe God does that. I have seen it many times.

 

[Iconoclast]

I truly doubt Hidden In Him needs to hide from you.
It's just that you become so exhausting!

I press for truth and know what people do having made a living in public places. No one can really walk thru those passages and not declare the truth. I have heard most of the attempts.I have answered them.