Prejudice against women, and the Bible

[BobE]

When Adam ate from the forbidden tree in the Garden of Eden, he was asked to give an account of his behaviour to God. Did he take full responsibility for his actions? Did he ask God’s pardon for his decision to disobey the divine command? No, sadly, he did not. Instead, he focused his attention on his wife: “The woman You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate” (Genesis, 3:12, NKJV).

When Adam was called to account for his sinful choice, the first thing he did was point at Eve. This, I think, is the seed that gave birth to the curse that follows later in the Genesis account:
“Your desire will be for your husband, and he shall rule over you” (Genesis 3:16, NKJV).

What is the connection between blame-shifting and control? Augustine exemplified it well in his 8th book of confessions. In his view, sexual feelings, of any kind, were sinful. To illustrate this point, he once said that before sin entered the world, “Adam would have sown his seed in Eve without any experience of lust or concupiscence [desire] as a rational act fully under the control of his mind, as a farmer sows his seed in a field” (Augustine, as cited in Reuther, 2007, p. 53).

Augustine believed that sexual feelings were sinful, and that they were clearly caused by women: “Thus the woman, but not the man, should veil herself to prevent her from causing this sinful response in the male” (Reuther, 2007, p. 56).

Augustine didn't just blame women for his sexual feelings--that he wrongly perceived as sinful. He also blamed them, like Adam, for the fall of humanity into sin:

“the serpent, which represents the enticement to disobedience to God and the preference for selfish desires, first approached Eve, because as a woman she had less rationality and self-control and was closer to the ‘lower’ or female part of the soul…" (Augustine, as cited in Reuther, 2007, pp. 53-54). Adam, on the other hand, was equated with the higher, superior part of the human soul. In fact, his choice to eat the forbidden fruit along with his wife was viewed by Augustine as “an act of kindly companionship, lest she be left alone outside paradise” (as cited in Reuther, 2007, p. 54).

In Augustine's mind, women must be ruled by men, to prevent them from causing problems due to their inherent inferiority. A clearer example of outright misogyny would be difficult to find.

Why is Augustine's prejudice against women so significant? His views became the basis for Canon Law in the church. Canon law was the authoritative statement of how members of the Christian church are to conduct themselves. This statement included a formal declaration that women may not "teach, bear witness, or rule" (Gratian's Decretum, 1140 A.D.).

It was no longer now just Augustine who blamed women for his (and the world's) problems and sought to control them, it was now official church doctrine. One might think that this would have been addressed in the Prostestant reformation. Sadly, however, some of the father's of this movement derived much of their theology from--you guessed it--Augustine.

As a result of Augustine's prejudice and prolific influence on orthodox theology, many Christians now believe that God himself blamed Eve for the downfall of humanity, and as a result put her under Adam's control. The curse of male domination was God's idea, they might say, to counter female waywardness (i.e. inferiority).

Does God blame Eve for humanity's fall though? Consider Paul's words to the church in Rome: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12, NIV). Well now, that's a twist. Sin didn't come through Eve? According to Paul, no it did not.

One modern theologian determined to blame Eve for humanity's downfall explained the entrance of sin in the following terms:

Adam was away fellowshipping with God when this tragedy took place. As soon as he realized what had happened, his deep love for Eve forced him to lovingly, willingly, voluntarily forsake his intimacy with God and join himself to his now sinful wife as a token of his great, sacrificial love. (Trombley, 2003, p. 112)

The main problem with Dehan’s account is that according to the book of Genesis, none of it actually took place. When Eve was being tempted by the devil, Adam was right there with her: “She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate” (Genesis 3:6, NKJV). Adam wasn’t tempted by Eve. He was present with his wife, while they were both tempted by the devil.

So, if God doesn't want men to rule over women, what is a Christian response to the curse of Genesis 3:16? I think Jesus provides the proper response (of course :yes). "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”) (Galatians 3:13 NKJV).

Jesus took the curse upon himself that Christians could be free from it! And what is the outcome of this sacrificial act? “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28 NKJV).

For too long, Augustine's prejudice against women has been used as a compass to "help" us understand the Bible. As a result of this bias, words referring to women as apostles, deacons, ministers and leaders in the early church have either been omitted or changed in Bible translation (e.g. King James Version), and Paul's efforts to refute the sexist oral traditions of his day have been twisted into apparent agreement!

Clear examples of women teaching and leading in the Bible (e.g. Deborah, Priscilla, Junia, Phoebe) have been ignored or explained away to support the erroneous conclusion that women may not teach, preach, or even speak in church. Men think it is their job to administer God's curse and keep women in submission. What a tragedy. What a contradiction of everything Jesus did on the cross. He died to take away the curse and to set women free, and some men in the church think it is their duty to keep them in bondage.

I think its long past time to cast off the blame-shifting and controlling mentality of Adam, Augustine, Calvin and others, and begin to minister Christ's redemption.

 

[handy]

Interesting post, and I was most interested in the thoughts of Augustine... because something certainly did happen to the freedom that women enjoyed in the first church... perhaps with Augustine preaching to the common prejudices of the day, that's when the church left off dealing with women biblically and returned to the very sinful, ungodly misogyny that is rampant in the world.

However, I do disagree with your conclusions regarding the curse... God does indeed desire for men to rule women... this was set in place prior to the curse... when God made Adam first, then Eve for Adam. I believe we see God's spiritual roles for men and women working out in the Garden prior to the fall when God instructed Adam regarding the forbidden fruit, when Eve was not there. Men and women following the godly roles of male headship and womanly submissiveness serves to strengthen both marriages and the church..imo.

 

[BobE]

Interesting post, and I was most interested in the thoughts of Augustine... because something certainly did happen to the freedom that women enjoyed in the first church... perhaps with Augustine preaching to the common prejudices of the day, that's when the church left off dealing with women biblically and returned to the very sinful, ungodly misogyny that is rampant in the world.

However, I do disagree with your conclusions regarding the curse... God does indeed desire for men to rule women... this was set in place prior to the curse... when God made Adam first, then Eve for Adam. I believe we see God's spiritual roles for men and women working out in the Garden prior to the fall when God instructed Adam regarding the forbidden fruit, when Eve was not there. Men and women following the godly roles of male headship and womanly submissiveness serves to strengthen both marriages and the church..imo.

Ah, but this notion of the curse is the one embraced and taught by Augustine. Please allow me to elaborate.

When he (and later Calvin) read that Eve was made to be Adam's helper, they concluded that helper indicated a position of inferiority and submission.

What they failed to realize is that the word for "helper" (ezer in Hebrew) is also used of God. In the Psalms, where God is referred to as our "help," the word is the exact same one used of Eve.

Also, in the Genesis account, you will find no reference whatsoever to woman's submission or man's ruling until after the curse brought about by sin.

Prior to this both woman and man are both created in the image of God, and both are given stewardship of all creation.

The master/servant relationship began only after the introduction of sin. It did not exist prior to this, and Augustine has wrongly explained it by saying it is necessary due to women's inferiority.

Paul also seems to argue against a misunderstanding of the creation account in 1 Corinthians. It seems as though some were arguing that men must have authority over women because they were created first. Paul's response to this was, "For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God" (1 Corinthians 11:12 NIV). In my view, this is one of the most egalitarian comments in the New Testament.

In Jesus' and Paul's day, men were the undisputed rulers of their homes. This was supported by Roman law and the oral law of Jewish religious leaders. They were the head's of their households. While Jesus and Paul do not dispute this, they do significantly redefine its meaning:

"Jesus called them together and said, 'You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many'” (Matthew 20:25-28 NIV).

Paul applies this principle specifically to husbands when he says, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" (Ephesians 5:25 NIV).

Similar instructions about all Christian relationships can be found in Philippians 2:5-8:

"In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death —
even death on a cross!" (NIV)

The passages in Ephesians about marriage begin with a statement encouraging Christians to, "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ" (Eph 5:21). Husbands are depicted then as setting an example of serving just as Christ did. Wife's are then told to follow this example, just as the church follow's Christ's. It is a beautiful picture of mutual service. If the man or head takes the lead in anything, Paul and Jesus define this as taking the lead in service.

Jesus also modeled this principle when he washed the disciple's feet. He led them by setting an example of service: "Then he said to them, 'I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you'" (John 13:15 NIV).

If God had expectations of Adam prior to the fall, it was not that he "rule" over his wife. It was that he set an example of how to love and serve--an example that she would then follow. This is how Jesus and Paul redefine the meaning of the word "head" for Christian homes.

I agree completely with "headship," but only as it is defined and exemplified by Jesus.

 

[roger_dodger]

My problem with this thread is that one begins with a premise and then seeks support for it. I note that the opening post begins with the end of the story of the fall of man. Let's look at it from the beginning in Genesis Chap 3:

1) The serpent approached Eve, not Adam, and tempted her.
2) Eve knew what God had ordered and repeated it to the serpent - she knew what she was doing and knew it was wrong.
3) Eve is not tempted with fruit. She is tempted with her desire for equality with God - something she cannot have and cannot be: "...and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
4) Eve succumbs to temptation (note that Adam is not even in the picture) and brings the fruit to Adam to eat also...because misery loves company, I guess.

This is well established and obvious to anyone who isn't pushing an agenda and is echoed in the New Testament. Just one example:

And Adam was not the one deceived;it was the women who was deceived and became a sinner. 1 Timothy 2:14 NIV

It is not prejudice, but fact from literally the beginning of creation. Woman desires an eqaulity she cannot have and cannot be. The sin of Adam was in going along with his wife. This has repercussions even today.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/doj-l...s-discriminates-against-women/article/2501267

Women's "right" to "equality" means that physical requirements for hiring police officers is de facto "prejudice" - not because physical strength and speed are not required of police officers, but solely because women will not be hired in the same numbers as men. Here, we have the exact same temptation used by Satan since the dawn of time on women: the arrogance of equality that cannot exist and must be enforced by coercion by a cultural-marxist state.

Based on the Bible, women are not "equal" and should not be treated as such.

 

[roger_dodger]

Canadians! 2

 

[handy]

roger_doger... the very fact that Eve was deceived means that she did not know "what she was doing and knew it was wrong." That's the whole nature of deception, the deceived person doesn't know what they are doing.

And, women are equal the bible clearly teaches this:

However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God. 1 Corinthians 11:11-12

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

We have a role that is equally important, that of submission... And the very nature of submission is that of an equal following the leadership of another to carry forth the common goals of both. This is very different than the obedience that is required of those who are not equal... like children or slaves. This is why you never see it commanded of women to obey their husbands... submission and obedience are two different things.

Also, Adam is "in the picture"...

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. Genesis 3:6

Because of the headship nature of the husband and the submissive nature of the wife, God gave Adam the commandment, before Eve was even created. (Genesis 2:15-22) Eve seems not to have understood the commandment correctly, for she added to it (God said nothing about not touching the fruit). Either she added to it in her own mind, or Adam taught it incorrectly, but as he was standing right there and didn't step in, take leadership, correct the assumption about the touching or do anything, we can understand why Eve was deceived and why, though she became a sinner, the world itself fell because of Adam's transgression. (Romans 5:12)

BobE... after reading through your post, you and I seem to be on the same page as far as what headship is about... :yes

 

[BobE]

Canadians! 2

You also say, "Based on the Bible, women are not "equal" and should not be treated as such."

Your two comments here suggest that you are not only prejudiced against women, but Canadians as well. Are you somehow unaware of how these statements come across?

Also, your understanding of the Genesis account appears misinformed. I'd like to quote from a text on the subject to illustrate my point:

"Some scholars suggest that God, through the curse, was putting the woman, Eve, back in her rightful place, in subordination to Adam. They argue that Eve, after giving in to temptation herself, either compelled or seduced Adam into eating the forbidden fruit. In so doing, they say, she usurped his rightful authority and plunged the world into darkness. Dr. M.R. Dehan summarized this view of humanity’s fall in the form of a love story:

'Adam was away fellowshipping with God when this tragedy took place. As soon as he realized what had happened, his deep love for Eve forced him to lovingly, willingly, voluntarily forsake his intimacy with God and join himself to his now sinful wife as a token of his great, sacrificial love.' (Trombley, 2003, p. 112)

The main problem with Dehan’s account is that according to the book of Genesis, none of it actually took place. When Eve was being tempted by the devil, Adam was right there with her: “She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate” (Genesis 3:6, NKJV). Adam wasn’t tempted by Eve. He was present with his wife, while they were both tempted by the devil." (Edwards, 2011, pp. 7-8)

You seem determined to treat women as if they are inferior, but when I read Paul's letter to the Galatians, I see that God does not do this:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28 NKJV). [Apparently God also dislikes prejudice on the basis of gender and nationality]

I see the same principle of equality in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians:

Woman may come from man, but man is born of woman. And both come from God” (1 Corinthians 11:11-12, TIB)

In fact, the book of Genesis itself begins with a statement of equality: "So God created human beings in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them" (Genisis 1:27 TNIV).

I'm not beginning the thread with an agenda. I'm trying to highlight a sexist agenda that began hijacking Christianity in the 3rd Century and continued through the middle ages. Unfortunately, in some corners of the church, it still seems to be alive today.

 

[BobE]

roger_doger... the very fact that Eve was deceived means that she did not know "what she was doing and knew it was wrong." That's the whole nature of deception, the deceived person doesn't know what they are doing.

And, women are equal the bible clearly teaches this:

However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God. 1 Corinthians 11:11-12

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

We have a role that is equally important, that of submission... And the very nature of submission is that of an equal following the leadership of another to carry forth the common goals of both. This is very different than the obedience that is required of those who are not equal... like children or slaves. This is why you never see it commanded of women to obey their husbands... submission and obedience are two different things.

Also, Adam is "in the picture"...

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. Genesis 3:6

Because of the headship nature of the husband and the submissive nature of the wife, God gave Adam the commandment, before Eve was even created. (Genesis 2:15-22) Eve seems not to have understood the commandment correctly, for she added to it (God said nothing about not touching the fruit). Either she added to it in her own mind, or Adam taught it incorrectly, but as he was standing right there and didn't step in, take leadership, correct the assumption about the touching or do anything, we can understand why Eve was deceived and why, though she became a sinner, the world itself fell because of Adam's transgression. (Romans 5:12)

BobE... after reading through your post, you and I seem to be on the same page as far as what headship is about... :yes

Yes indeed, and after reading this post, it seems we're on the same page on a lot of things I really think God is doing something in the church right now to stamp out prejudice against women. Hallelujah!

 

[BobE]

I've just been reviewing a book by Carson defending traditional roles for men and women. As expected, biblical manhood is depicted as leadership and authority. Biblical womanhood is depicted as service and subordination.

A lot of attention is paid to "what the Bible says" about these issues. At first glance that would seem to be a good thing. However, sometimes "what the Bible says" in English translations is not at all similar to "what the Bible says" in the Greek of Jesus' day.

For instance, in the Greek New Testament based on the oldest, most reliable manuscripts, women and men were both referred to as "diakonos," and "prostatis." These words are often applied to the role of male leaders and ministers in the church, including the apostle Paul.

What does not show up in some English translations (e.g. the King James and New King James versions of the Bible) is that women also occupied these roles and carried out these functions. These exact words, for example, are used of Phoebe in Romans 16, verses 1 and 2. This is abundantly clear in Greek, and some English translations like Today's New International Version, get it right.

So, does the Bible really tell us that only men can be ministers and leaders in the church? Well according to the Greek text, the TNIV (and other translations thankfully), no the Bible doesn't say that at all.

Okay, so if we clear up the translation problem, we're good to go right? Sadly, no. Prejudice is a mindset. It is a lense through which people unknowingly perceive their world. If someone has a prejudice, you may have noticed, he or she will be the last person to admit it. Someone won't admit it because it is a blind-spot. It exists outside of awareness.

Well, it is just this kind of prejudice that seems to affect some theologians and Bible commentators, particularly if they have been raised under specific denominational traditions. I don't feel it's necessary to name names, the denominations are fairly outspoken regarding their views of women.

Many people raised under a tradition of female subordination will internalize this. In other words, it becomes their mindset--the mental lense through which they perceive or make sense of reality.

When reading about Eve as Adam's "helper" for example, someone who has internalized the norm of female subordination will literally see this word as indicating subordination and/or inferiority.

John Calvin, for example, when reading that Eve was Adam's "help" interpreted this as meaning she was his "inferior aid" (Trombley, 2003; as cited in Edwards, 2011). St. Augustine made the same mental error. The influence of Calvin and Augustine on church culture has been prolific.

Why I call this a mental error is because in the Bible, on multiple occasions the same word used of Eve (ezer) is used also of God. Eve was a helper (ezer), and so is God. This word is also used of foreign armies that Israel sought aid from. Neither God, nor these military allies were viewed as inferior or subordinate. Quite the opposite was true. Prejudice, however, will not or cannot see this. It's alarming.

In these cases, it is not the Bible that needs to be correctly translated. The translation is quite accurate. It is the mindset through which the Bible is interpreted that requires transformation.

When Paul wrote to the Christians in Rome, he warned them not to be conformed to the customs of this world (Romans ch. 12). In Rome, women were viewed as weak, wayward, inferior, and requiring male supervision from birth until death. This view of women is aptly described in Genesis chapter three as a "curse."

In Galatians chapter three, we read that Jesus died on the cross to take this curse away from us:

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole" (Gal. 3:13 TNIV)

The result is that Christians may be free from it. Instead of conforming to the curse, we can be liberated from it:

"So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:26-28).

My hope is that Christian leaders would focus both on accurate biblical translation from the Greek (re. women) and that they would refect upon the possibility that their mindsets and perceptions of God's word have been influenced by an accursed prejudice against women. Something that Jesus shed his blood to free us from.

 

[elijah23]

The Lord commanded us to love our neighbors as ourselves. Men should be aware of this in their dealings with women, no exceptions.

 

[BobE]

The Lord commanded us to love our neighbors as ourselves. Men should be aware of this in their dealings with women, no exceptions.

I couldn't agree with you more.