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Premarital Sex...

J6o7h8n3 said:
I'm so sorry. I will pray for you. I know exactly how that feels. When my ex and I started doing pre-marital activities, that's when our relationship really went downhill, and I went away from God for a while. It's been 3 months for me since then, and it still hurts. I thought I wanted to marry him at the beginning, but not anymore. And he won't talk to me, either.

Im sorry to hear about your experience also, but in both our situations it may be for the best. I can feel your pain. Just know there are good guys out there as I constantly remind myself there are good women even though it seems so impossible. God knows our hearts and he will provide for us. It seems so hard to think about it I cry, but its the truth. I will pray for you also. It makes me feel not so alone anymore that somebody else is having the same problem, and do remind yourself that you are not alone either and that I am going through this too. Sometimes we often feel so alone and that nobody else have these problems, but your walking by my side sister and many other people too. I also messaged her today and she still said no more chance in the future, so its helping some now knowing that there is no hope for us and I can finally let go completely as I held on to a little bit of hope ever since we broke up that we could be together again. I think letting go completely helps, but its very hard to do if you are so easily attached like I can be. Anyways its important to give up the things we loved the most to be back with God. *gives big hug over internet*.
*big hug back* :D Thank you, my brother. I prayed for you last night. :D We'll make it through by the power of God's mercy and grace, this I believe. We'll learn to love again. :wink:
 
Blazin Bones said:
believe it or not, there are many christians who would not mind sex before marraige, what are your thoughts on the matter?

First I have to ask, what do you mean having sex before marriage? I'm assuming that you mean sex before that couple have been what would be called officially wed by a minister or someone that has the legal authority to marry the couple.

If that's what you mean, then it's not a simple matter of yes or no in terms of it being a sin. For one, their are no, and I mean no scriptures in the Bible that says that if one is not married by a minister for example, it means that it is a sin....I challenge any one to prove me wrong.....search the Bible and see if you can find where it says or authorize a minister or some one that is authorized by the state or government that they are the only one in God's eyes has that right.

The sin is only if the couple or one of them departs from their commitment to each other....a marriage is a man and a woman who have committed themselves to each other in an intimate relationship. The violation of that commitment would be sin, and not because they have not been officially declared husband and wife by an ordained minister. And a violation would be more than simply departing from that relationship, or having an affair with someone else.

The fact of the matter is that in the eyes of God, you, every sane human being have the right and authority of yourselves, to do so without the need to have those who are recognized or authorized to do marriages. But I suspect that because of personal financial benefits, many ministers or others would not want you to realize this, because of the obvious reason.

Couples living together as husband and wife, but have not been officially married is what is called common law marriages. And in some states and countries this is recognized just like the traditional marriage. In situation like that I see no problem with this kind of relationship, and it is certainly not a sin, as long as the couple remains faithful to each other.
 
Hey :) I am new to this forum and i have been struggling with my beliefs and especially with my beliefs on this issue. I consider myself a Christian, but sometimes I dont see the big deal in premarital sex, partly because people have made some good points about it. I've been going back and forth on the issue for a while now.

Anyways, I asked for some opinions on another forum that I belong to, that is not a Christian forum, and i got a few responses that make a lot of sence for premarital sex. So, I'm just curious about what some of your responses to some of the opinions i got would be. Here are a few of the responses i got, tell me your thoughts on these opinions. Thanks :)

It is in all honesty rather stupid to wait till you are married to see if you are sexually compatable with your partner or not. There is no logical reason on postponing it till marriage, as in all honesty marriage changes nothing.

I got married almost 5 months ago now, having been in the relationship with my wife for 5 years. We had sex all throughout the relationship. Getting married as just an affirmation of our feelings. So sex before or after is no different at all.

personally, i have no idea what im doing.
yeah you want to make sure someone loves you for you, so you might wait. or maybe youre really into your religion, so you might wait.
however, i dont think i will wait. im not sure why, but i dont think i will.
now yeah, im a virgin. and i thought i would wait. but as of now, i dont see that happening.
i mean, im really into god. yeah. i go to church, i believe, i wear a cross around my neck everyday, i pray almost every night, etc.
however, i just dont understand how waiting will change anything.
but i do see how being someones first can be special. hmm, my opinion is just me rambling on. it really doesnt make any sense, does it

But you may find on your wedding night, you're still not ready, because you've built it up to be something huge. And it's really not. That's a mistake a lot of people make, they assume it's this big monumental event, and it's not. It's a milestone in your life and something you won't forget, sure, but it's not as huge as you may think. You'll still be you, and everything else stays the same. And also, if you wait until marriage, for girls anyways, it's most likely going to hurt. I don't know about you, but i want to enjoy my wedding night, not be in pain

there were others too, but these are the ones that got me thinking the most. i just want some other Christian's opinions on these opinions.

thanks again :)
 
Taraness (that is, this is in response to Taraness),

Granted, all the responses you gave are valid- from a worldly point of view. But from a biblical perspective, you will not find a verse anywhere in the Bible saying that you should have sex before marriage, or even that it's OK to have sex before marriage.

It's not about a Christian's opinion. It's not about a non-Christian's opinion. It's about what the Bible says. So what does it say?

"But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband" (1 Corinthians 7:2, ESV).
This verse shows that you should wait until marriage to engage in sexual activity to avoid sexual immorality.

"Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous" (Hebrews 13:4, ESV).
So here's a command to keep the marriage bed undefiled. Basically, don't have sex outside of marriage. Why? "God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous." The word "adulterous" is easy to take care of. It applies to a married person who has sex outside of marriage. But what about "sexually immoral?" Who does that apply to? We look to its Greek counterpart, "pornos" (source) which means "a man a man who indulges in unlawful sexual intercourse, a fornicator" (source). What is a fornicator? Merriam-Webster's takes care of that definition: "consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other" (source).

Alright. So what we end up with is: Don't have sex outside of marriage. Why? God will judge fornicators (sex between two unmarried people, which applies to premarital sex) and adulterers (where a married person has sex with someone other than his or her spouse). You might ask, "How does this mean that it's bad? Just because God will judge it doesn't mean it's bad..." OK, think logically here- a judge doesn't judge stuff that isn't unlawful or bad. A judge will only judge bad, and in this case, sinful, things.

If you don't care about indulging in sin as a Christian, I suggest you read this and download the sermon therein. Do it soon- your eternal salvation may depend on it.

But all that being said, I'll leave you with one last verse:
"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
Why is it better to marry? To avoid sexual immorality, which I just talked about- fornication and adultery.

So if you burn with passion, find a Christian you're in love with (2 Corinthians 6:14; that is, as opposed to a non-Christian), and get married. It's a biblical command.

Premarital sex is wrong because God says so. That's it. It's final. And if you don't care, please, please, please read this and listen to the MP3 of that sermon.

God bless!
 
I'm not sure that I necessarily belong in this forum, since I have been married for over 2 years now, but here is my opinion, for those of you who promised your future spouses and God that you would remain sexually pure until marriage but it didn't end up happening, then the relationship soured, I've been there. My husband had pre-marital sex with his last girl-friend, and I was a virgin until we decided to get married. Things were ok between us, but not great. I'm so glad that I did marry him because God had blessed us beyond measure since OUR WEDDING VOWS. I was 18 when I got married. Now I own my own home, my husband is going to school to be a pastor, and we are financially secure enough to pay all of our bills 99% of the time. But all of that changed after we married. Even if you think that a "marriage" is a spiritual commitment, you need a man (or woman) of the cloth to bring God's presence and blessing into your marriage. That is something that we didn't have until we made our vows in a church building in the site of God. I understand that it's hard to wait. I knew I would be a virgin on my wedding night, but my flesh got the better of me. I had to settle for the next best thing and be a virgin for my future husband. I also had to forgive him for not saving himself for me. That was hard to do. But, there is hope. If your future spouse truly loves you in Christ, then he or she will forgive you of your sins against your own body. My husband has never compared me and has always been gentle and loving with me. It can work out and you can move on, even though it is hard. Also, don't fall for the whole "if we move in together, it will make us closer" bull. Even though I wasn't a virgin I didn't live with Mike until we married. If you think temptation is hard without it, you won't be able to bear it when you live together. God always provides us with a way out of our temptations, and by simply (or not so simply) saying "no" and standing firm, you can step out from under that temptation. Always pray for God's help in your sexual purity, even if you have desecrated yourself previously.
 
Always pray for God's help in your sexual purity, even if you have desecrated yourself previously.

This is so true. Even if you have given into sex before marriage, this is by no means your last straw. Yes, once you've had sex, your virginity is lost for good, but if you come to God in repentance and God has forgiven you, you can regain your purity. This purity is just is better than virginity in a way. This is because virginity can be kept out of self-pride. However, to be seen as sexualy pure, we must give our sex lives over to Him, regardless of our past. I am by NO MEANS saying that it's all well and good to have sex before marraige, but for those who are already beyond the first time, there is nothing wrong with putting the next time in God's hands and letting him hold on to it.
 
This is so true. Even if you have given into sex before marriage, this is by no means your last straw. Yes, once you've had sex, your virginity is lost for good, but if you come to God in repentance and God has forgiven you, you can regain your purity. This purity is just is better than virginity in a way. This is because virginity can be kept out of self-pride. However, to be seen as sexualy pure, we must give our sex lives over to Him, regardless of our past. I am by NO MEANS saying that it's all well and good to have sex before marraige, but for those who are already beyond the first time, there is nothing wrong with putting the next time in God's hands and letting him hold on to it.

This is very true. It's something that when I look back now, I wish I would have done. It is something that I will definitely instill in my children also (when the good Lord blesses us). I just wish that more children would feel that their parents are open enough and spiritually supportive enough to come to in those situations. More parents need to encourage their children to abstain and give their sex lives to God instead of being closed to the subject...or worse; my father told me to go and sleep with whomever I wanted and that way when I did decide to get married, I'd know what the sex was going to be like. I can't stress enough who important spiritual purity is. Even after you are married, it's something that should still be brought to God in prayer, lest you or your spouse decide to wander into different pastures.
 
It doesn't need to be parents, but they should want to impact their children in this way. I grew just as much if not more from the respect i had for my adults in my church. Godly Instruction and upbringing goes a long way.
 
Godly instruction and upbringing is definitely important, as it instills a Godly conscience. I just want to say to those who think that there is nothing wrong with sex before marriage as long as you are committed to each other, what does your conscience say? Do you ever listen to that still, small voice in your heart? If you are a child of God then your conscience will not agree with your actions, and you can lie to yourself until your heart goes numb, but the truth remains that you know that it is wrong. To Christians the Bible says that our bodies are not our own, and we not only rob God of what is his, but we also cheat our future spouse and ourselves when we decide not to wait until marriage.
 
caromurp said:
Godly instruction and upbringing is definitely important, as it instills a Godly conscience. I just want to say to those who think that there is nothing wrong with sex before marriage as long as you are committed to each other, what does your conscience say? Do you ever listen to that still, small voice in your heart? If you are a child of God then your conscience will not agree with your actions, and you can lie to yourself until your heart goes numb, but the truth remains that you know that it is wrong. To Christians the Bible says that our bodies are not our own, and we not only rob God of what is his, but we also cheat our future spouse and ourselves when we decide not to wait until marriage.

I am one of those who believe that it’s the commitment that makes the marriage, and not simply a minister or someone who marries the couple. Any one, who believes that I am wrong, would need to prove to me from the Bible that I am wrong. In other words, show me in the Bible where it says that in order for a sexual relationship to be right in God's eyes a minister must marry the couple.
 
When ever there is a wedding in the Bible, there are traditions carried out. These traditions bring the blessings and presence of God. Biblical weddings are steeped in traditions and in my religion (as in most) a person of the cloth is there to make sure that things are done properly. Why would it be ok to have sex out of wedlock, but not a child? And what witnesses do you have to say that these 2 people are "married" by a commitment? In your belief, then, there could be more than 2 people married, or you could be married to more than one other person, because you have a commitment in your heart to support them, love them, help them, etc. One could argue then, that I am married to my parents or my sister. There has to be some sort of public commitment and binding ceremony. I don't want to argue, this is just my opinion. When day, when we get to Heaven, we can ask God what is wrong or right. Also, what is right for some, is not right for all. This is something that we learn from Paul in the 1st Corinthians.
 
heatherentz said:
When ever there is a wedding in the Bible, there are traditions carried out. These traditions bring the blessings and presence of God. Biblical weddings are steeped in traditions and in my religion (as in most) a person of the cloth is there to make sure that things are done properly. Why would it be ok to have sex out of wedlock, but not a child? And what witnesses do you have to say that these 2 people are "married" by a commitment? In your belief, then, there could be more than 2 people married, or you could be married to more than one other person, because you have a commitment in your heart to support them, love them, help them, etc. One could argue then, that I am married to my parents or my sister. There has to be some sort of public commitment and binding ceremony. I don't want to argue, this is just my opinion. When day, when we get to Heaven, we can ask God what is wrong or right. Also, what is right for some, is not right for all. This is something that we learn from Paul in the 1st Corinthians.

Those traditions are good and fine, but there are no scriptures in the Bible that tells us that a man of the cloth/minister has to perform the wedding in order for it to be right in God's eyes. The couple themselves has the right and authority to do so on there own. This is how it was during the time of the Old Testament, and right on down to the time of the early Church. I know this, because I have done an in-depth Bible study on it.

I guarantee you; you will never find a single scripture, even a single word that even hint that a minister or some acting in his stead, must do the wedding for it to be acceptable in God's eyes. If we are going to go by the scriptures then there is no reason to insist that those (a man and a woman) who have been living together as husband and wife, but did not have a wedding be married, because they are already married….the commitment to be faithful to each other is the marriage.
 
BF,
While there may be no verses in the Bible that say that one must be married by a minister, there are 3 points that we see.

First, according to Romans 13:1-2, we must submit to what our government sees as a marriage for it to be considered a marriage in God's eyes.

Romans 13:1-2
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Second, we see in John 2 that Jesus attended a wedding. He even blessed the couple by performing his first miracle here. While this doesn't mean that a ceremony must be performed, per say, it does indicate that according to God a ceremony is completely acceptable. Also, if our government requires a ceremony of some sort (as in my first point), then that is what we as Christians are required to do.

Lastly, the thought that a couple who has had sex is married is unbiblical. In 1st Corinthians, Paul warns us against sexual immorality.

Ultimately, a couple is married if they have followed the laws governing becoming married as long as they are not against the Bible and are not unreasonable, they have performed the family or cultural customary ceremony to become married, and have consummated the marriage.

If a couple decided that they don't need to follow these three things, that is between them and God. I hope that they can rest easy at night and that they know that God is ok with the decision they have made about not going through a ceremony. Hell too high a cost to explain away your sexual immorality.
 
Let's calm things down a touch and clear some air.

Firstly, this thread discusses premarital sex, not what constitutes a Go blessed marraige. If you would like a thread discussing that, put it up in Christian Talk and Advice.

Now, to establish the topic back to what it was meant to be. BF, suppose this couple were in a committed relationship for 10 years, lived together, had kids, all the marriage things, and the husband gets bored. What is obligating him to stay, and would you still consider the relationship God pleasing if the husband left?

The question this thread ask is "Is premarital sex wrong?" Let's keep replys around that topic.

 
heatherentz said:
BF,
While there may be no verses in the Bible that say that one must be married by a minister, there are 3 points that we see.

First, according to Romans 13:1-2, we must submit to what our government sees as a marriage for it to be considered a marriage in God's eyes.


Romans 13:1-2
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

There are states and countries that recognize common law relationship as they do traditional marriage. But if it does not then I would not advocate this kind of relationship. One could simply move to a state or country that does recognize this relationship.

heatherentz said:
Second, we see in John 2 that Jesus attended a wedding. He even blessed the couple by performing his first miracle here. While this doesn't mean that a ceremony must be performed, per say, it does indicate that according to God a ceremony is completely acceptable. Also, if our government requires a ceremony of some sort (as in my first point), then that is what we as Christians are required to do.

Yes, but that would be a stretch to say that that is the only form of marriage that God recognized. Jesus never said that a man and a woman that decided to live together in a committed intimate relationship is a sin. What Jesus condemned was unfaithfulness to that relationship….this is what God is against.

heatherentz said:
Lastly, the thought that a couple who has had sex is married is unbiblical. In 1st Corinthians, Paul warns us against sexual immorality.

The word that is translated immorality means "Porneia" and is translated harlotry. The meaning of the word harlotry has changed over time, so I believe we should stick with the word "Porneia."

Porneia:
Definition
illicit sexual intercourse
adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
metaph. the worship of idols
of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols


Greek Word: ÀοÃÂνεία
Transliteration: porneia
Phonetic Pronunciation: por-ni'-ah
Root: from <G4203>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 6:579,918
Part of Speech: n f
Vine's Words: Fornication, Fornicator


Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
fornication 26
[Total Count: 26]

from <G4203> (porneuo); harlotry (including adultery and incest); figurative idolatry :- fornication.

Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.


Now who would fit that defection? Would a couple who has been living faithfully in a common law relationship be considered to be indulging in porneia? Hardly!

Listen, I realize that what I am saying is hard to receive because we have been taught that a relationship that we are discussing must be sanction by a minister. There are some truths that even God's people cannot handle until they have matured some. Jesus even told this to His disciples before He was crucified.

John 16:12 (ASV)
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

So as I said before there are no scriptures to support what you believe constitute a marriage. One need to understand that there are those who benefit from performing weddings and other like them, who would not want us to realize that we don't need them to make a union man and a woman right in God's eyes......It would mean a loss of income for them.
 
It seems to me, that in the early days of Christianity (and even earlier) the meaning of "marry" was simiply "copulate" and the meaning of "being married to someone" meant living with a person with whom you are regularily copulating. Here is evidence from early Christian writings:

From Eusebius (260 – 340 A.D) Church History
AT this time the so-called sect of the Nicolaitans made its appearance and
lasted for a very short time. Mention is made of it in the Apocalypse of
John. They boasted that the author of their sect was Nicolaus, one of the
deacons who, with Stephen, were appointed by the apostles for the
purpose of ministering to the poor. Clement of Alexandria, in the third
book of his Stromata, relates the following things concerning him. “They
say that he had a beautiful wife, and after the ascension of the Savior, being
accused by the apostles of jealousy, he led her into their midst and gave
permission to any one that wished to marry her.
For they say that this
was in accord with that saying of his, that one ought to abuse the flesh.
And those that have followed his heresy, imitating blindly and foolishly
that which was done and said, commit fornication without shame. But I
understand that Nicolaus had to do with no other woman than her to
whom he was married
, and that, so far as his children are concerned, his
daughters continued in a state of virginity until old age, and his son
remained uncorrupt.


"gave permission to any one who wished to marry her". I doubt that he gave pemission for all those men to make a life-long commitment to her, nor to enter into a legal marriage agreement with her.

Eusebius also quoted Clement of Alexandria in his description of what Nicolaus had supposedly done in allowing anyone who wished, to marry his wife. Eusebius apparently thought that Clement used the word “marry†appropriately, as referring to copulation. At the same time, Eusebius stated (see bolded quote) that “Nicolaus had to do with no other woman that her to whom he was married.†Is Eusebius now using “marry†in a different sense from that of his quote from Clement? I don’t think so. When he said that Nicolaus was married, did he not simply refer to the woman with whom he was living and with whom he had sexual relations?

Clement of Alexandria “Exhortation to the Heathenâ€Â, chapter 4
…and again that of Demetrius, who was raised to the rank of the gods; and where he alighted from his horse on his entrance into Athens is the temple of Demetrius the Alighter; and altars were raised to him everywhere, and nuptials with Athene assigned to him by the Athenians. But he disdained the goddess, as he could not marry the statue; and taking the courtesan Lamia, he ascended the Acropolis, and lay with her on the couch of Athene, showing to the old virgin the postures of the young courtesan.

Is this story not saying that because he could not have sex with the statue of Athene, and that the goddess herself was not personally available, he copulated with the courtesan Lamia to satisfy his needs?

Clement of Alexandria “Stromataâ€Â, Book 2, chapter 23
But they who approve of marriage say, Nature has adapted us for marriage, as is evident from the structure of our bodies, which are male and female.

This passage could be interpreted from almost any point of view, but it seems to me that Clement is saying that nature has adapted men for sexual intercourse with women as is evident from the structure of their respective bodies.

Eusebius “Church History†Book 3, Chapter 28
And Dionysius, who was bishop of the parish o fAlexandria in our day, in the second book of his work On the Promises, where he says some things concerning the Apocalypse of John which he draws from tradition, mentions this same man in the following words:
“But (they say that) Cerinthus, who founded the sect which was called, after him, the Cerinthian, desiring reputable authority for his fiction, prefixed the name. For the doctrine which he taught was this: that the kingdom of Christ will be an earthly one. And as he was himself devoted to the pleasures of the body and altogether sensual in his nature, he dreamed that that kingdom would consist in those things which he desired, namely, in the delights of the belly and of sexual passion, that is to say, in eating and drinking and marrying, and in festivals and sacrifices and the slaying of victims, under the guise of which he thought he could indulge his appetites with a better grace.†These are the words of Dionysius.


Eusebius explains “the delights of the belly and of xual passion†by placing the words “in eating and drinking and marrying†in apposition to them.

.
 
BF,
Let's just agree to disagree. As I said earlier, ultimately that decision has to be between the couple and God.

But I do agree with Tim...
Blazin Bones said:
BF, suppose this couple were in a committed relationship for 10 years, lived together, had kids, all the marriage things, and the husband gets bored. What is obligating him to stay, and would you still consider the relationship God pleasing if the husband left?
 
heatherentz said:
BF,
Let's just agree to disagree. As I said earlier, ultimately that decision has to be between the couple and God.

But I do agree with Tim...
Blazin Bones said:
BF, suppose this couple were in a committed relationship for 10 years, lived together, had kids, all the marriage things, and the husband gets bored. What is obligating him to stay, and would you still consider the relationship God pleasing if the husband left?

This is foolish reasoning, because it implies that those who take the traditional rout do not get board with each other and file for divorce. Haven’t you heard that half of marriages end in divorce? Even among suppose Christians, who seem to have God’s, the minister and the Church’s blessing and made a vow that only death would separate them, sometime end in divorce.

But as I said before, this is a hard truth to accept if one is not ready to receive it. So if you disagree you disagree, there is no law that says that the truth will be accepted by all…peace.
 
As a disciple of Christ, I do not see "getting bored with each other" as grounds for divorce. You are just as likely to get bored with the next one. Rather, serve the other, think about that one's wishes and needs, and quit being so selfish. When you do that, you begin to truly love your partner and will not consider divorce. The Scriptures say that God hates divorce.

You and your partner can also explore new and exciting activities. There is no need for boredom.

I was married to my first wife 35 years. It was only her death that separated us. The thought of divorce had never entered my head during those 35 years. I have now been married to my second wife for nearly 10 years. Again, the divorce is unthinkable for me.
 
Paidion said:
As a disciple of Christ, I do not see "getting bored with each other" as grounds for divorce. You are just as likely to get bored with the next one. Rather, serve the other, think about that one's wishes and needs, and quit being so selfish. When you do that, you begin to truly love your partner and will not consider divorce. The Scriptures say that God hates divorce.

You and your partner can also explore new and exciting activities. There is no need for boredom.

I was married to my first wife 35 years. It was only her death that separated us. The thought of divorce had never entered my head during those 35 years. I have now been married to my second wife for nearly 10 years. Again, the divorce is unthinkable for me.

I understand what you are saying and I hope you understand my point as well. Because just as there are people who marry and never get divorced, there are those who marry but theirs end in one. So my point was traditional marriages is not a guarantee that one will remain faithful to each other anymore than one in a common law marriage. I have known people who had/have common law marriage and they were/are more faithful than many of those who had a traditional marriage.
 
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