Preterism 101

[whirlwind]

Besides, what generation is there that Jesus could have been condemning for all the righteous blood shed on the earth? No single generation could have killed both Abel and Zechariah since the generations of these evil acts were separated by many generations! And many generations came and went that had spilled more righteous blood. How could any single generation be personally guilty of actually committing all of those crimes?

Exactly. No single "generation" as you use the term, could have been guilty of all those crimes. But when you consider the people group, of whom the "scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites" represented, that group as such WAS guilty of all ---- with the exception of the killing of Abel. But then no one on the earth is descended from Cain. All of Cain's descendants died in the Flood. All 8 persons on the Ark were descended from Seth, and thus all people since then are descended from Seth. So I don't understand how "this generation" regardless of the meaning of "generation" could "fill up the measure of their father's guilt" with reference to the slaying of Abel.

Genesis 6:19 And of every living thing OF ALL FLESH, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

7:15-16 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of ALL FLESH, wherein is THE BREATH OF LIFE. And they that went in, went in male and female of ALL FLESH, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.


Two and two of all flesh with the breath of life was on the ark.....

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, "This is now bone of my bones, and FLESH OF MY FLESH: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one FLESH.

 

[Matthew24:34]

Besides, what generation is there that Jesus could have been condemning for all the righteous blood shed on the earth? No single generation could have killed both Abel and Zechariah since the generations of these evil acts were separated by many generations! And many generations came and went that had spilled more righteous blood. How could any single generation be personally guilty of actually committing all of those crimes?

Exactly. No single "generation" as you use the term, could have been guilty of all those crimes. But when you consider the people group, of whom the "scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites" represented, that group as such WAS guilty of all ---- with the exception of the killing of Abel. But then no one on the earth is descended from Cain. All of Cain's descendants died in the Flood. All 8 persons on the Ark were descended from Seth, and thus all people since then are descended from Seth. So I don't understand how "this generation" regardless of the meaning of "generation" could "fill up the measure of their father's guilt" with reference to the slaying of Abel.

You are misunderstanding my words, Paidion. What I said is that no single generation was ever or ever will be guilty of ACTUALLY murdering Abel and Zechariah and all the righteous upon the earth. BUT a generation could be made ACCOUNTABLE for it because of the wicked motivation behind their own deeds against God's people! Had that generation of Jews standing right there with Jesus lived in the days of Abel, they would have slain him. Had that generation of Jews standing right there with Jesus lived in the days of Zechariah, they would have slain him. They slayed everyone whom Jesus sent to them! It was those very Jews of Jesus' day whom Jesus accused of being witnesses against themselves that THEY were "sons of those who murdered the prophets." In that sense, they were "sons" of all those who murdered throughout the history of man to that point. It was in their connection along with their fathers to the "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9) that made them guilty. It was that generation alone who accomplished the greatest murder of all time--the crucifixion of Christ. It was not an unjust thing for God to hold them accountable for all the righteous blood shed on the earth. It was only lack of opportunity and location in place and time that kept them from actually murdering Abel and Zechariah! This is why Jesus pronounced the many woes upon THEM.

Whether you see it or not, it is what it is, Paidion. Did you look up the twenty passages I provided in which THIS GENERATION appears in the NT? This is the point of Matthew 23:36 and 24:34! THAT generation was to be held accountable for all the righteous blood shed on the earth. "ALL these things" came upon THAT very generation. "THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place." Jesus is not talking about any "people group" other than that very generation in which He was then living!

Respectfully, my friend, why do you strain at a gnat and swallow a camel? Were it not for your system of eschatology, you would see what is plainly there! Jesus is talking directly to those very Jews right there with Him. He is not talking about the "people group" of mankind! That is more than a stretch when considering the audience relevance and the context here. Are we to believe that Jesus is such a bad communicator that He cannot plainly say what He means?

Jesus mentions the guilt of those Jews right there with Him because they are going to be held accountable for their actions. That particular generation of Jews was going to fill up the measure of their fathers' guilt--not some "people group." Throughout the long history of the Jewish nation, the Lord longed to gather their children together, but THEY were not willing. When Jesus spoke these words to that particular generation of Jews, it was too late for their nation--(not a people group)--but that very nation. THEIR house, the temple, and THEIR city was to be left unto THEM desolate. The context could not be clearer. To insist that "this generation" refers to a "people group" is reading one's preconceived ideas into the text.

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

 

[Matthew24:34]

At any rate, it doesn't change the fact that Jesus came back and a whole bunch of people got raptured. :o :D

This is supposition. It's hardly a fact; it's a belief! Where are the records of the eyewitnesses? Where is the written and/or oral account of this belief? A whole bunch of people being whisked off the face of the earth would have raised some red flags with someone! Why wasn't this belief taught by the EFCs?

Greetings, Vic C.: Who saw God create the heavens and the earth? How many people saw the crossing of the Red Sea? How many witnessed the 10 plagues in Egypt? Who saw the walls of Jericho fall down? Do you believe that Jonah was actually swallowed by a great fish? Who saw the angel appear to Mary and Joseph? What about the miracles of Jesus? What about those raised from the dead following Jesus' death? The reason we know about any of these things is because God's people were commissioned to write them down. The secular world ignores and disavowed these events, but we, by faith, accept them as historical happenings.

Sadly, I think if Jesus had come right out and said, "I am come back in A. D. 70," many today would still say, "when did that happen? No one ever recorded such an event so I'm not going to believe it!"

But Jesus came very close to saying that when He said "THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place." Paul clearly said ""WE shall not all sleep--WE shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet" (1 Cor. 15). Paul clearly stated: "WE who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus, WE shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thes. 4). Blessed are those who do not see but believe!

Sincerely, Preterist

 

[Vic C.]

I know you are sincere and so am I. Don't read any negative tone into what I say, but be assured they are serious questions to be considered.

Greetings, Vic C.: Who saw God create the heavens and the earth? How many people saw the crossing of the Red Sea? How many witnessed the 10 plagues in Egypt? Who saw the walls of Jericho fall down? Do you believe that Jonah was actually swallowed by a great fish? Who saw the angel appear to Mary and Joseph? What about the miracles of Jesus? What about those raised from the dead following Jesus' death? The reason we know about any of these things is because God's people were commissioned to write them down. The secular world ignores and disavowed these events, but we, by faith, accept them as historical happenings.

The reason we know about any of these things is because God's people were commissioned to write them down.

Which is precisely my point. The few who did write down any historical events post 70 AD weren't inspired, thus weren't canonized. Plus, the little they did write may have pointed to a judgment but not the Judgment.

I'll repeat what Sproul wrote because it's what I believe also.

A.D.70

A coming (parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish Age

Still Future

The Coming (parousia) of Christ
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history

 

[Matthew24:34]

I know you are sincere and so am I. Don't read any negative tone into what I say, but be assured they are serious questions to be considered.

Greetings, Vic C.: Who saw God create the heavens and the earth? How many people saw the crossing of the Red Sea? How many witnessed the 10 plagues in Egypt? Who saw the walls of Jericho fall down? Do you believe that Jonah was actually swallowed by a great fish? Who saw the angel appear to Mary and Joseph? What about the miracles of Jesus? What about those raised from the dead following Jesus' death? The reason we know about any of these things is because God's people were commissioned to write them down. The secular world ignores and disavowed these events, but we, by faith, accept them as historical happenings.

The reason we know about any of these things is because God's people were commissioned to write them down.

Which is precisely my point. The few who did write down any historical events post 70 AD weren't inspired, thus weren't canonized. Plus, the little they did write may have pointed to a judgment but not the Judgment.

I'll repeat what Sproul wrote because it's what I believe also.

A.D.70

A coming (parousia) of Christ
A day of the Lord
A judgment
The end of the Jewish Age

Still Future

The Coming (parousia) of Christ
The Day of the Lord
The Resurrection of the dead
The Rapture of the living
The (final) Judgment
The end of history

What if ALL who would have even thought to write them down were GONE? And Sproul disbelieves the same things you disbelieve--the clear time statements of the Scriptures--for example the 101 Scriptures few have even attempted to address--the very point of this thread!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

 

[parousia70]

Greetings, Paidion: Actually, Acts 8:33 is irrelevant to "this" discussion.

If it's irrelevant, then why was it listed among the many proof texts which supposedly indicate that "generation" always refers to contemporaries within a time frame of about 25 or 30 years?

Actually, it's about 41 years, if we are to believe Matthew 1:17:
So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

Of course if we take your view, Matt 1:17 should read:
So all the Jewish Races from Abraham to David are fourteen Jewish Races, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen Jewish Races, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen Jewish Races.

Did it suddenly become irrelevant because I showed that it had a different meaning from the one that is "always" used in the Scriptures?

You have misquoted me.
Please rebut what I actually wrote about the use of the word.

 

[parousia70]

Sorry Paidion, I found it...

As for the idea that Jesus always used "generation" to mean his contemporaries is ludicrous. I tried substituting "Jewish people" in the verses quoted, and it is meaningful in NINE of the verses.

Which 9?

 

[Matthew24:34]

Paidion: I am still waiting for your explanation of the verses I posted which clearly say "THIS generation." What is the meaning in each of them? Again, I point out that the significance of Matthew 24:34 is not simply the word γενεα but the demonstrative pronoun, οÅÄοÂ! THIS generation!

Matthew24:34